Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 4:21:47 GMT
You're being OTT now. Please don't use phrases like "you need to stop" as though you're being pressganged when you're not. We probably should stop in that case if you're uncomfortable while all that's being said is "we don't get what you mean in your responses in the context of what we're talking about". Easiest way. Have a good one. Silly debates aren't worth feeling uncomfortable over, right or wrong - it's all just chatter about fiction at the end of the day.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 4:25:36 GMT
You're being OTT now. Please don't use phrases like "you need to stop" as though you're being pressganged when you're not. We probably should stop in that case if you're uncomfortable while all that's being said is "we don't get what you mean in your responses in the context of what we're talking about". Easiest way. Have a good one. Silly debates aren't worth feeling uncomfortable over, right or wrong - it's all just chatter about fiction at the end of the day. I have a right to express if I feel uncomfortable, Davy. Whatever the circumstances. I'm a person, not a computer. But anyway, yes, it's all getting a bit much over something that's not worth the hassle. I've expressed my intent with the posts and that's as far as it should go. Agreed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 4:39:05 GMT
And yet you don't have right to tell me "you need to stop" when nothing remotely acrimonious was said, Wolfie. Zero malice. Certainly nothing at all that I think would be censured or break any rules of the forum. If you feel otherwise you can of course report the posts though I think the admin who read it would be more miffed about the back-and-forth we're having now rather than anything that was said initially. We're probably both coming off as more jackass-y than we'd like and would read our posts back in a week thinking "what were we thinking?" It's a horrible time for all at the moment given the wider world and we've both said our bits - we can move on with no problems, I think, and I sincerely wish you and yours the very best. We all come here for an escape and though I truly did not mean to cause you any discomfort, since I clearly did I apologise for that as, though I would stand my ground, I'd rather not make someone feel bad even more - so again - you have my apologies and my very best wishes from the other side of the globe!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 4:48:33 GMT
And yet you don't have right to tell me "you need to stop" when nothing remotely acrimonious was said, Wolfie. Zero malice. Certainly nothing at all that I think would be censured or break any rules of the forum. If you feel otherwise you can of course report the posts though I think the admin who read it would be more miffed about the back-and-forth we're having now rather than anything that was said initially. It's a horrible time for all at the moment given the wider world and we've both said our bits - we can move on with no problems, I think, and I sincerely wish you and yours the very best. We all come here for an escape and though I truly did not mean to cause you any discomfort, since I clearly did I apologise for that as, though I would stand my ground, I'd rather not make someone feel bad even more - so again - you have my apologies and my very best wishes from the other side of the globe! Thanks, I accept the apology. I genuinely don't want to make enemies, I want to chat happily about this, that and the other thing. But you have a habit of misconstruing what I say. I don't take it personally, but there a comes a point where I have to put my hand up and say: "No, that's not correct." Maybe that's something the two of us can work on, I'll try to adjust where I can and I know for a fact that you don't mean harm by it. But I am going to say if I feel I've reached the point that I feel uncomfortable. That's a human right and I would say that with anyone. Above all, yeah, no long-lasting hard feelings. That'd be wretched, I much prefer the nice chats. Best wishes from one side of the Earth to the other.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Apr 9, 2020 12:27:59 GMT
And that early period of the Fourth Doctor’s life has already been messed around with once in the War, in Anti-Genesis, so certainly makes sense that it’d be in a bit of flux. Am looking forward to this story, regardless of whether or not it truly fits in continuity. Agreed. Continuity is overrated and I don’t get fans who would have today’s writers being slaves to the past. Give me a good story first and foremost. Continuity is one of those things that is important to some people but not to others. Just like scientific accuracy is important to some people - the Christopher H Bidmeads of this world - but not to others. Likewise the implied/inferrred socio-political stance of stories is important to some people but not to others, e.g. the controversy surrounding Talons of Weng Chiang. For me, my academic background is in History so the historical inaccuracy of some stories annoys me. Not all of things I have just listed are important to me personally, but they are important to someone and those involved in making a story should make the effort to get them right as far as is possible.
In all these areas (and more) I think the onus is on the writer to do their homework and research when writing and to make the effort to get things right. And to be perfectly honest I think more often than not when a writer says "I'm not letting continuity get in the way of a good story" it is just a lazy writer making excuses for lack of research and/or lack of effort to think creatively about how to avoid contradicting established continuity. Some writers/producers use "Not letting continuity get in the way of a good story" as a get out of jail free card.
I read quite a bit of historical fiction and the good historical writers do their homework and make every effort to fit their story into the recorded history, and only take liberties for the sake of the plot when there is absolutely no alternative, but they acknowledge this and you know they have at least tried to avoid changing things.
IMO the majority of continuity errors in Doctor Who could have been avoided if writers had made more effort or put a bit more thought into how they could tie their story up with what has gone before.
So, basically, I think the supposed conflict between respecting continuity and telling a good story is a false choice. If a writer is prepared to put the work in, there is no reason why they need to make continuity errors. And when a writer says "I'm not letting continuity get in the way of a good story" 9 times out of 10 what they are really saying is that they are a lazy writer who can't be bothered making the effort to do their research and/or think of creative ways to fit the story they want to tell in with established continuity. Continuity should thus be a spur to creativity rather than a restriction upon it.
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Post by xlozdob on Apr 11, 2020 0:08:27 GMT
Agreed. Continuity is overrated and I don’t get fans who would have today’s writers being slaves to the past. Give me a good story first and foremost. Continuity is one of those things that is important to some people but not to others. Just like scientific accuracy is important to some people - the Christopher H Bidmeads of this world - but not to others. Likewise the implied/inferrred socio-political stance of stories is important to some people but not to others, e.g. the controversy surrounding Talons of Weng Chiang. For me, my academic background is in History so the historical inaccuracy of some stories annoys me. Not all of things I have just listed are important to me personally, but they are important to someone and those involved in making a story should make the effort to get them right as far as is possible.
In all these areas (and more) I think the onus is on the writer to do their homework and research when writing and to make the effort to get things right. And to be perfectly honest I think more often than not when a writer says "I'm not letting continuity get in the way of a good story" it is just a lazy writer making excuses for lack of research and/or lack of effort to think creatively about how to avoid contradicting established continuity. Some writers/producers use "Not letting continuity get in the way of a good story" as a get out of jail free card.
I read quite a bit of historical fiction and the good historical writers do their homework and make every effort to fit their story into the recorded history, and only take liberties for the sake of the plot when there is absolutely no alternative, but they acknowledge this and you know they have at least tried to avoid changing things.
IMO the majority of continuity errors in Doctor Who could have been avoided if writers had made more effort or put a bit more thought into how they could tie their story up with what has gone before.
So, basically, I think the supposed conflict between respecting continuity and telling a good story is a false choice. If a writer is prepared to put the work in, there is no reason why they need to make continuity errors. And when a writer says "I'm not letting continuity get in the way of a good story" 9 times out of 10 what they are really saying is that they are a lazy writer who can't be bothered making the effort to do their research and/or think of creative ways to fit the story they want to tell in with established continuity. Continuity should thus be a spur to creativity rather than a restriction upon it.
Yes! Exactly how I feel about it!
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Apr 11, 2020 9:07:14 GMT
Rather late to the news of Sadie's casting. A really lovely touch, just as Daisy's casting last year in her mum's role was. Kudos once again Big Finish. As much as I now look forward to hearing Sadie's interpretation of Sarah Jane, I'm also eager to hear the Behind The Scenes (which better be included..or else!😡😉) for her thoughts on taking up the role, not to mention Tom Baker's thoughts on working alongside Lis' daughter. As for the release date, like many I've been curious as to why this has been announced so far in advance of November 2021. The fact that Sadie has taken the role, when I was under the impression she was focusing more on her writing than acting makes me wonder if this a false trail being laid to avoid mention of an earlier and more significant date next year..🤔 I know..pure speculation / borderline conspiracy theory on my part. But until we know for sure I'm wrong I'm going to quietly hope that I might be right. 😊 I can only assume that this was announced as a pre-order because of the interview with Sadie Miller in DWM. A bit of self promotion between Big Finish and the Magazine for BF to trail more news in the magazine. Otherwise the article would reference something that wasn’t available. If it hadn’t been for that I suspect we wouldn’t have gotten this announcement. And it also answers why there is so little information about The Doomsday Contract. Perhaps Doctor Who Magazine has another article planned that would relate...or do Big Finish suspect an announcement regard the Season 17 Blu-ray release!?
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Post by cwm on Apr 11, 2020 9:57:50 GMT
I presume The Doomsday Contract was only announced so early so people could pre-order it as part of the Series 6 bundle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 10:50:50 GMT
IMO the majority of continuity errors in Doctor Who could have been avoided if writers had made more effort or put a bit more thought into how they could tie their story up with what has gone before... If a writer is prepared to put the work in, there is no reason why they need to make continuity errors. And when a writer says "I'm not letting continuity get in the way of a good story" 9 times out of 10 what they are really saying is that they are a lazy writer who can't be bothered making the effort to do their research and/or think of creative ways to fit the story they want to tell in with established continuity. Unless the writer doesn't like something from the past and deliberately wants to change it for the future. A lot of writers have egos and want to put their own stamp on things... or maybe just tidy things up that fit their own POV. I'm sure there have been some writers on Doctor Who who set out to obliterate parts of established 'continuity' just because they personally didn't like it. It would have nothing to do with them not wanting to do the research or being lazy, it could just be because they didn't give a damn about the people who wanted everything to fit. The story they want to tell is the story they want to tell. So there might not be any conflict in those writers. Maybe some even took great delight in deliberately setting out to annoy the Doctor Who continuity brigade?!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 11:13:18 GMT
IMO the majority of continuity errors in Doctor Who could have been avoided if writers had made more effort or put a bit more thought into how they could tie their story up with what has gone before... If a writer is prepared to put the work in, there is no reason why they need to make continuity errors. And when a writer says "I'm not letting continuity get in the way of a good story" 9 times out of 10 what they are really saying is that they are a lazy writer who can't be bothered making the effort to do their research and/or think of creative ways to fit the story they want to tell in with established continuity. Unless the writer doesn't like something from the past and deliberately wants to change it for the future. A lot of writers have egos and want to put their own stamp on things... or maybe just tidy things up that fit their own POV. I'm sure there have been some writers on Doctor Who who set out to obliterate parts of established 'continuity' just because they personally didn't like it. It would have nothing to do with them not wanting to do the research or being lazy, it could just be because they didn't give a damn about the people who wanted everything to fit. The story they want to tell is the story they want to tell. So there might not be any conflict in those writers. Maybe some even took great delight in deliberately setting out to annoy the Doctor Who continuity brigade?! Continuity brigade makes it sound a lot more organised than it actually is. Thing is... People don't tend to gravitate towards those sorts of stories. They just don't. It's too much about what's not possible, rather than what is. If you, as a writer, are prepared to deliberately trample all over another writer's work, why should they take yours aboard? Accidentally is another matter. That happens all the time. Even well-meaning sweeps like the decision to place different ranges in different universes in Zagreus got overturned by The Company of Heroes couple of years later that threw them altogether. You have to remember, as a writer, you're not kicking around a bunch of fans by doing it, you're doing the same thing to other writers. If you're worth your salt as a writer, you won't do that. Because you know how difficult the process is to begin with. It's why we have authors like John Dorney puzzling out the many Mary Shelleys and so forth.
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Apr 11, 2020 11:47:00 GMT
I presume The Doomsday Contract was only announced so early so people could pre-order it as part of the Series 6 bundle. Indeed and I am very pleased that they did. However it did make it look like the poor partner in that marriage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 13:42:37 GMT
You have to remember, as a writer, you're not kicking around a bunch of fans by doing it, you're doing the same thing to other writers. If you're worth your salt as a writer, you won't do that. Because you know how difficult the process is to begin with. It's why we have authors like John Dorney puzzling out the many Mary Shelleys and so forth. I'm not really advocating either way, as although Doctor Who continuity doesn't bother me and I can live with Return of the Cybermen not fitting properly in to S12, what John Peel did in his two Dalek 8DA's drove me up the wall. Which means somewhere in my head continuity does actually bother me. Go figure!
I was only trying to point out that it's not always lazy writing or lack of research, some authors know exactly what they are doing but will do it anyway as it suits them or the story they want to tell. (And yes, I'm sure a few of them were kicking around a bunch of fans deliberately!)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 13:49:13 GMT
You have to remember, as a writer, you're not kicking around a bunch of fans by doing it, you're doing the same thing to other writers. If you're worth your salt as a writer, you won't do that. Because you know how difficult the process is to begin with. It's why we have authors like John Dorney puzzling out the many Mary Shelleys and so forth. I'm not really advocating either way, as although Doctor Who continuity doesn't bother me and I can live with Return of the Cybermen not fitting properly in to S12, what John Peel did in his two Dalek 8DA's drove me up the wall. Which means somewhere in my head continuity does actually bother me. Go figure!
I was only trying to point out that it's not always lazy writing or lack of research, some authors know exactly what they are doing but will do it anyway as it suits them or the story they want to tell. (And yes, I'm sure a few of them were kicking around a bunch of fans deliberately!)
Oh, yeah, fair, I was doing the same. Offering a peek behind the curtain at some of the motivations over the whys and why nots. No harm done. I'm actually biting my tongue a bit because it's skirting very close to tricks of the trade, so sorry if it sounds a bit clipped. Oh, yes... War of the Daleks is such a weird book. It should be amazing, but it spends so much time on the fake Antalin. I came out of it with the opposite impression than intended, that the Dalek Prime had been lying his bumps off and Skaro really was destroyed, but the Daleks couldn't afford to admit it. My head canon is that -- when all the different factions split into their myriad ways -- the Daleks put a lot of emphasis on Skaro as the seat of power. To claim and rule it, is to be a true Dalek among a sea of pretenders. That was the centre of the Imperial-Renegade Dalek War -- the right to rule.
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 12, 2020 2:09:20 GMT
War of The Daleks could easily be accepted alongside Terror Firma if you basically ignore all the plot developments in the book
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2020 3:04:28 GMT
War of The Daleks could easily be accepted alongside Terror Firma if you basically ignore all the plot developments in the book A while ago, someone pointed out an interesting discrepancy with Davros's recovery in the book compared to the audio. In Terror Firma, we hear his story from go to whoa. The moment he evacuates in the escape pod above 1960s Earth to the present day. It's pretty watertight. War of the Daleks, on the other hand, mentions him being picked up on the edge of Dalek space from a fleet of Dalek battlecruisers. Sometime long after The Dalek Invasion of Earth and the Movellan War. One possible explanation is that somewhere between Terror and War, he's been ousted again (maybe in an ambush?) and forced to flee.
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 12, 2020 4:03:19 GMT
Quite Possible im kinda curious to see how Davros will be portrayed in the upcoming time war vol 4 given the ending of Terror Firma
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Post by shallacatop on Apr 17, 2020 15:09:58 GMT
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 17, 2020 15:13:08 GMT
And the release date seems to have been moved to January of 2021 from November of 2021.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 17, 2020 15:16:19 GMT
“Tom has actually worked many times before with Christopher Naylor, who’s played guest roles throughout different series of the Fourth Doctor Adventures. Chris is a very versatile actor, so we can cast him in so many things. But, we realised, he’s also the perfect Harry. Again, it’s very hard to follow Ian Marter, but Chris has managed to do that and Tom was full of praise for what both Sadie and Chris have done. I wonder where they could pop up next?”... Big Finish speak for we will be hearing them again.
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Post by cwm on Apr 17, 2020 15:20:21 GMT
And the release date seems to have been moved to January of 2021 from November of 2021. I think that's a mistake on the news item - the product page still has November.
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