|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 6, 2020 2:55:03 GMT
Regarding the comic strip adaptions i think they should have done a boxset with one a 4th Doctor and another an 8th doctor adaption since they are both popular doctors it would have perhaps generated more interest? I don’t understand your logic. If Nick has said the one box set featuring 4 didn’t meet expectations, what would a second box set with 8 have achieved?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 3:16:28 GMT
Regarding the comic strip adaptions i think they should have done a boxset with one a 4th Doctor and another an 8th doctor adaption since they are both popular doctors it would have perhaps generated more interest? Not a bad idea, but I don't think it was entirely a lack of interest or variety, per se. We're living in the age of Marvel films. I remember purchasing the Comic Adaptations knowing the originals, knowing Alan Barnes was the perfect choice to adapt them, but... hesitant that they'd be handled in the same way as the Novel Adaptations. Love and War and a handful of Missing Adventures were a good start. The problem I had as a listener (even knowing the original source) was that a lot of the NAs acquired relied on information not in those releases. Knowing how Ace returned to Seven and Benny, who Chris and Roz were, why the Doctor was so morose in Nightshade, etc. Even Original Sin, which came later and introduced the two Adjudicators, is part of an informal trilogy of stories about the Doctor and Benny exploring their humanity ( Sanctuary, Human Nature, Original Sin). I suspect what the Adaptations needed at the time was what the Main Range has now for each Doctor -- dedicated producers. One for the New Adventures and one for the Missing Adventures. The comics, on the other hand, have the potential to be much more accessible. Particularly for a run as standalone as the Fourth Doctor, K9 and Sharon. I think it's probably going to occupy the same space as The Lost Stories or The Companion Chronicles now. A new boxset here and there to break up the more regular ranges. However it goes, I hope they do get a bit more traction over the years. Tom sounds like he's having so much fun and there's nothing else at Big Finish that sounds quite like it.
|
|
|
Post by theillusiveman on Apr 6, 2020 7:59:49 GMT
Regarding the comic strip adaptions i think they should have done a boxset with one a 4th Doctor and another an 8th doctor adaption since they are both popular doctors it would have perhaps generated more interest? I don’t understand your logic. If Nick has said the one box set featuring 4 didn’t meet expectations, what would a second box set with 8 have achieved? Sorry i guess what i meant was to have Two Popular Doctors (4 and 8) in the first volume that way both audiences/fans of 8 and 4 could be interested rather than solely 4th Doctor Fans if they were going to adapt an 8th Doctor comic The Flood is probably the one to go for as it has The Cyber men (a popular DW monster), a good jumping on point for beginner listeners and the story itself was praised by Russel T Davies and elements being used in the Series One New Who Finale- with that fact would have driven interest in New Series fans
but yeah i could likely be wrong but that's just my thoughts on it
|
|
mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,100
|
Post by mbt66 on Apr 6, 2020 9:10:40 GMT
I can understand people being put off by the Seventh Doctor novel adaptations. I know I was. Big Finish we’re picking and choosing, jumping all over the Seventh Doctor’s “lost era”.
If they had made it a more coherent run I believe that it would have been more accessible.
I still find their packaging of Damaged Goods with The Well Mannered War their biggest marketing mistake ever. Further alienating me from wanting to invest in the novel adaptations.
But I don’t understand why the missing adventures novel adaptations wouldn’t have sold. I am a Fourth Doctor fan and the three he did would all sit very high in my Fourth Doctor audio top ten. (Having written that, I am now tempted to go away and do myself a list - that should keep me busy for a while)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2020 9:41:15 GMT
I can understand people being put off by the Seventh Doctor novel adaptations. I know I was. Big Finish we’re picking and choosing, jumping all over the Seventh Doctor’s “lost era”. If they had made it a more coherent run I believe that it would have been more accessible. I still find their packaging of Damaged Goods with The Well Mannered War their biggest marketing mistake ever. Further alienating me from wanting to invest in the novel adaptations. But I don’t understand why the missing adventures novel adaptations wouldn’t have sold. I am a Fourth Doctor fan and the three he did would all sit very high in my Fourth Doctor audio top ten. (Having written that, I am now tempted to go away and do myself a list - that should keep me busy for a while)*exhales* Ooh, there's a thought... I think the two post- Trial Steve Lyons's stories for ol' Sixie -- Time of Your Life and Killing Ground -- could've been a no-brainer for a double-pack (maybe rejigging it to be the arrival and departure of a companion). State of Change is a glorious Spartacus-style romp... The Sands of Time has some deeply interesting discussions about the consequences of time travel... I'd have been fascinated to see a Farewell, Great Macedon-style adaptation (half-audiobook, half-drama) of Venusian Lullaby with William Russell and Jemma Powell...
|
|
|
Post by xlozdob on Apr 6, 2020 12:42:12 GMT
Yeah, I definitely agree the novel adaptations should have been a more coherent range with a proper vision, and maybe a producer for each Doctor they wanted to use.
It seems to me BF is afraid of continuity, and prime examples of this are, indeed, the Novel Adaptations range and the Time War ranges. And I'm afraid it's counterproductive, cause I'm sure they do it to try not to alienate potential new customers, but I think the result is that they alienate both that potential new audience and the audience that is invested and expect events to have an impact and character development (hello, Ace!). I think they underestimate how popular serialised storytelling is, and that, if the stories are good, people are going to get invested even if they have to work a little to know what's happening (even more so, I'd say).
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,187
|
Post by dorney on Apr 6, 2020 12:55:51 GMT
Yeah, I definitely agree the novel adaptations should have been a more coherent range with a proper vision, and maybe a producer for each Doctor they wanted to use. It seems to me BF is afraid of continuity, and prime examples of this are, indeed, the Novel Adaptations range and the Time War ranges. And I'm afraid it's counterproductive, cause I'm sure they do it to try not to alienate potential new customers, but I think the result is that they alienate both that potential new audience and the audience that is invested and expect events to have an impact and character development (hello, Ace!). I think they underestimate how popular serialised storytelling is, and that, if the stories are good, people are going to get invested even if they have to work a little to know what's happening (even more so, I'd say). I genuinely don’t know what you mean by ‘continuity’ in this context, particularly relating to the Time War.
|
|
|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Apr 6, 2020 13:14:11 GMT
Yeah, I definitely agree the novel adaptations should have been a more coherent range with a proper vision, and maybe a producer for each Doctor they wanted to use. It seems to me BF is afraid of continuity, and prime examples of this are, indeed, the Novel Adaptations range and the Time War ranges. And I'm afraid it's counterproductive, cause I'm sure they do it to try not to alienate potential new customers, but I think the result is that they alienate both that potential new audience and the audience that is invested and expect events to have an impact and character development (hello, Ace!). I think they underestimate how popular serialised storytelling is, and that, if the stories are good, people are going to get invested even if they have to work a little to know what's happening (even more so, I'd say). I genuinely don’t know what you mean by ‘continuity’ in this context, particularly relating to the Time War. I think they mean the various ranges connecting together like how for example Gallifrey Time War 1 is intertwined with War Master: Only The Good. I dunno I can’t see any other way of looking at it.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,187
|
Post by dorney on Apr 6, 2020 13:25:41 GMT
I genuinely don’t know what you mean by ‘continuity’ in this context, particularly relating to the Time War. I think they mean the various ranges connecting together like how for example Gallifrey Time War 1 is intertwined with War Master: Only The Good. I dunno I can’t see any other way of looking at it. I thought that - but as you say, the Time War ones do connect up a bit and have cross-over characters whereas the novels don’t, and I know Matt has a good idea of how things fit. It seems quite a different beast from the novel adaptations, so I can’t quite see how one is an example of the same thing as the other.
|
|
|
Post by mrperson on Apr 6, 2020 19:12:57 GMT
Why does "The Doomsday Contract" have a picture of Colin Baker on it? Someone seems to have screwed up, either the picture or the starring actor.
Edit: derp, that was answered on the first page of the thread...
|
|
|
Post by xlozdob on Apr 7, 2020 10:20:26 GMT
I think they mean the various ranges connecting together like how for example Gallifrey Time War 1 is intertwined with War Master: Only The Good. I dunno I can’t see any other way of looking at it. I thought that - but as you say, the Time War ones do connect up a bit and have cross-over characters whereas the novels don’t, and I know Matt has a good idea of how things fit. It seems quite a different beast from the novel adaptations, so I can’t quite see how one is an example of the same thing as the other. Thanks for the response, John. I agree they're not in the slightest the same beast. I just thought they were two examples of how that "fear" of connectivity (maybe that's a better word than continuity?) could manifest. Of course the novels had almost none whatsoever, even in the same range. In the Time War, as you say, yes, there has been at least some thought of where the ranges are going (and I'm sure we'll see more of that in the future) and a small proper crossover back when it all started, but, as of now, I don't think there has been actual instances of something happening in a series having an impact on another range. I really do hope that starts happening in some way in the future, and I have complete faith in Mr Fitton (and Scott, for that matter), but yeah, that's the sort of continuity between ranges that I was referring to that I feel an event like this would benefit from (I'm not saying it should be central to the plots, but having something big in another range as the backdrop or as the reason for a change in the status quo would be cool), in my opinion, at least.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,187
|
Post by dorney on Apr 7, 2020 10:26:56 GMT
I thought that - but as you say, the Time War ones do connect up a bit and have cross-over characters whereas the novels don’t, and I know Matt has a good idea of how things fit. It seems quite a different beast from the novel adaptations, so I can’t quite see how one is an example of the same thing as the other. Thanks for the response, John. I agree they're not in the slightest the same beast. I just thought they were two examples of how that "fear" of connectivity (maybe that's a better word than continuity?) could manifest. Of course the novels had almost none whatsoever, even in the same range. In the Time War, as you say, yes, there has been at least some thought of where the ranges are going (and I'm sure we'll see more of that in the future) and a small proper crossover back when it all started, but, as of now, I don't think there has been actual instances of something happening in a series having an impact on another range. I really do hope that starts happening in some way in the future, and I have complete faith in Mr Fitton (and Scott, for that matter), but yeah, that's the sort of continuity between ranges that I was referring to that I feel an event like this would benefit from (I'm not saying it should be central to the plots, but having something big in another range as the backdrop or as the reason for a change in the status quo would be cool), in my opinion, at least. It is tricky - for all manner of logistical reasons - and I do think there’s something to be said for keeping each range distinct (I’ve always been infuriated by comic cross-over events where you have to buy another comic to get the full story). But it’s certainly something I’d always be happy to try.
|
|
lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 6,002
|
Post by lidar2 on Apr 7, 2020 10:35:48 GMT
I think they mean the various ranges connecting together like how for example Gallifrey Time War 1 is intertwined with War Master: Only The Good. I dunno I can’t see any other way of looking at it. I thought that - but as you say, the Time War ones do connect up a bit and have cross-over characters whereas the novels don’t, and I know Matt has a good idea of how things fit. It seems quite a different beast from the novel adaptations, so I can’t quite see how one is an example of the same thing as the other. The one big obvious interconnection missing from the various Time War ranges is the 8th Dr's initial refusal to participate in the Time War when asked by the Time Lords, which happens off-screen and is taken as read in the releases we have got so far. I can't understand why BF have steered clear of this.
|
|
|
Post by xlozdob on Apr 7, 2020 11:49:02 GMT
Thanks for the response, John. I agree they're not in the slightest the same beast. I just thought they were two examples of how that "fear" of connectivity (maybe that's a better word than continuity?) could manifest. Of course the novels had almost none whatsoever, even in the same range. In the Time War, as you say, yes, there has been at least some thought of where the ranges are going (and I'm sure we'll see more of that in the future) and a small proper crossover back when it all started, but, as of now, I don't think there has been actual instances of something happening in a series having an impact on another range. I really do hope that starts happening in some way in the future, and I have complete faith in Mr Fitton (and Scott, for that matter), but yeah, that's the sort of continuity between ranges that I was referring to that I feel an event like this would benefit from (I'm not saying it should be central to the plots, but having something big in another range as the backdrop or as the reason for a change in the status quo would be cool), in my opinion, at least. It is tricky - for all manner of logistical reasons - and I do think there’s something to be said for keeping each range distinct (I’ve always been infuriated by comic cross-over events where you have to buy another comic to get the full story). But it’s certainly something I’d always be happy to try. Of course, I do understand logistics are a limiting factor, and one of the reasons (another is the generally brilliant stories and performances) why, despite my words sounding perhaps a bit harsh, I'm resigned to accept the reality of these productions. On the other hand, I see why we might not see eye to eye on this matter, as I love those comic cross-over events (although I do understand, especially for budget reasons, it's always nice when the tie-ins are not necessary to understand the main story and all the needed narrative background is properly explained). It's the feeling that you are experiencing something much bigger that is the culmination of different events that have been leading to this. Although, I guess there's still time (pun not intended) to experience that with the Time War. And yes, lidar2, I hope we can see that in the future. Something else I would've loved to see is Ollistra in the Gallifrey range, but sadly that wasn't meant to happen (unless there's something we don't know about yet). And since we're in impossible things territory now, a multi-Doc story with the late Sir John and McGann would've been amazing and a dream come true. But I digress, and this is not the proper thread to talk about these things. And again, thank you, John, for taking some time off of Tom Jones to reply.
|
|
mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,100
|
Post by mbt66 on Apr 7, 2020 11:55:00 GMT
I thought that - but as you say, the Time War ones do connect up a bit and have cross-over characters whereas the novels don’t, and I know Matt has a good idea of how things fit. It seems quite a different beast from the novel adaptations, so I can’t quite see how one is an example of the same thing as the other. The one big obvious interconnection missing from the various Time War ranges is the 8th Dr's initial refusal to participate in the Time War when asked by the Time Lords, which happens off-screen and is taken as read in the releases we have got so far. I can't understand why BF have steered clear of this. Absolutely 100% this ^^^
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Apr 7, 2020 12:15:56 GMT
Thanks for the response, John. I agree they're not in the slightest the same beast. I just thought they were two examples of how that "fear" of connectivity (maybe that's a better word than continuity?) could manifest. Of course the novels had almost none whatsoever, even in the same range. In the Time War, as you say, yes, there has been at least some thought of where the ranges are going (and I'm sure we'll see more of that in the future) and a small proper crossover back when it all started, but, as of now, I don't think there has been actual instances of something happening in a series having an impact on another range. I really do hope that starts happening in some way in the future, and I have complete faith in Mr Fitton (and Scott, for that matter), but yeah, that's the sort of continuity between ranges that I was referring to that I feel an event like this would benefit from (I'm not saying it should be central to the plots, but having something big in another range as the backdrop or as the reason for a change in the status quo would be cool), in my opinion, at least. It is tricky - for all manner of logistical reasons - and I do think there’s something to be said for keeping each range distinct (I’ve always been infuriated by comic cross-over events where you have to buy another comic to get the full story). But it’s certainly something I’d always be happy to try. I certainly think there are different ways to do it. The comic cross-over type event you mentioned is one way of doing it, which would be the actual ranges crossing over - I don't think the Eighth Doctor going into the War Master is quite the same, as that doesn't link to anything in his range. Another is what xlozdob mentioned about big events in one range having an impact in another range. You can do that and keep the respective ranges distinct. The approach that Big Finish have so far taken is mainly characters appearing in different ranges. That's fine, but I don't think that's a crossover as such, that's just continuity. Or rather not the epic that some people want, which would be, for example, Romana, Narvin & Leela being in the same set and events as the Eighth Doctor and Bliss, with their respective ranges truly crossing over. I think that is more akin to the comic example. There's loads of different factors involved in these things that I completely understand and appreciate. My personal stance is the Eighth Doctor range should have him be more ravaged and weary, closer to deciding to become a Warrior, and be the "Avengers" equivalent, with Gallifrey, the War Master, Susan, etc. being the "solo" films. If we were to use the Marvel Cinematic Universe as the example anyway! Sorry, I know I've made this stance a few times already on this forum, where the Eighth Doctor range seems to be where I'd point the finger when it comes to any faults with Big Finish's overall Time War content, so I don't want to continue beating it down unnecessarily any time we discuss the Time War at Big Finish.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,187
|
Post by dorney on Apr 7, 2020 14:24:30 GMT
I thought that - but as you say, the Time War ones do connect up a bit and have cross-over characters whereas the novels don’t, and I know Matt has a good idea of how things fit. It seems quite a different beast from the novel adaptations, so I can’t quite see how one is an example of the same thing as the other. The one big obvious interconnection missing from the various Time War ranges is the 8th Dr's initial refusal to participate in the Time War when asked by the Time Lords, which happens off-screen and is taken as read in the releases we have got so far. I can't understand why BF have steered clear of this. Well, certainly my personal take is that Starship is his first encounter with the war and that it isn’t happening... and then suddenly it is happening and has been happening for ages. I don’t think it should necessarily have that clear a chronology. (Detail to add - the intention of that story is that you can, if you want, have it as his first story in the war, or in the middle, but my personal preference is first as I think it serves the story better).
|
|
|
Post by theillusiveman on Apr 7, 2020 14:45:27 GMT
Honestly i think the thread has gone a bit off topic from the whole Return of the cybermen tom baker lost story
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,187
|
Post by dorney on Apr 7, 2020 14:56:40 GMT
True!
|
|
lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 6,002
|
Post by lidar2 on Apr 7, 2020 15:30:21 GMT
Honestly i think the thread has gone a bit off topic from the whole Return of the cybermen tom baker lost story Not necessarily - the Time War could be the explanation for the two parallel versions of Revenge/return of the Cybermen!
|
|