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Post by shallacatop on Sept 17, 2020 22:03:51 GMT
I will reserve full judgement until the set ends, but listening to Dreadshade had me thinking that this range is in the wrong order. Suitable for a Time War, you might argue, but I think a shake up of the stories and I bet the four sets would flow much better than they do. Good post. I think it's interesting that someone else had this comment about the story order. I had the same comment about the first set, and the same starting into this set - I think I was trying to leave everything as much of a surprise as possible and hadn't expected Davros until later on - but I started to wonder if that really was the point that we get a sense of the disjointedness of events in the Time War. Story order is rarely if ever a complaint I've had about any other box sets, Big Finish usually seems to have a fairly impeccable sense of arranging stories so that they do feel like they're in the right order. I still have the last story to go but whatever happens I think I could end up fairly content that it comes with the territory. It's starting to feel like a slightly odd complaint to have about timey-wimeyness when that's the first thing about this set that I want to complement is that John Dorney's wonderful gift for writing timey-wimey stories that don't feel gimmicky is very much in evidence here. It will be interesting to see what I think about the story order for the series later on if I go back and listen to it as a whole. Hmm, I don’t think it’s an odd complaint just because the concept of the Time War and some of the stories feature different timelines and delve into that in detail. There still needs to be the sense of cohesion and it needs to be dramatically satisfying. The reason I had my thought when listening to Dreadshade is partially because I was intrigued by the references to past stories, which made me think about them in detail, and also because I was grateful for a story without the Daleks. I absolutely love the Daleks, but a lot of this range is dominated by constant dealings with Gallifrey, near misses with the Daleks and a tacked on Time War environment. It’s also balancing itself between a more relaxed Doctor than in Dark Eyes, Doom Coalition & Ravenous, with some lighter stories to boot, but also tries to constantly put the Doctor in the midst of the Time War. In a strange way, I think the series should have perhaps distanced itself from the Time War a little. Have one or two Time War stories or elements a set, but also go for those standalone, fun and care free stories that hark back to the Lucie or Charley days. After all, this is a Doctor who is very much against fighting in the Time War, but is aware of its ongoing presence. And, in hindsight, it’s something which could’ve easily been avoided. The War Valeyard and the events in that story should’ve happened in the second set. That way we get a running theme where the Doctor is picking up the pieces throughout and the stories stand on their own better, without having to spend time weaving the Daleks into them. The Time War has caused all of these events and stories to unfold, but you get a legitimate reason for a more laid back and care free Doctor and he’s actively avoiding the Time War because he isn’t actually aware of it for the bulk of the range, though it’s effects are still very much a presence. Ideally I’d change the first set more, so it’s the Doctor & Sheena having regular adventures, with Starship of Theseus being the finale and propelling the Doctor into the Time War. Then the second set is a couple of stories from the second and third series, finishing with The War Valeyard. The third set would be repurposed to remove the Daleks & direct mentions of the Time War to reflect the events of the War Valeyard. The fourth set would be Dreadshade, where the Doctor realises the events of The War Valeyard, then Palindrome and then Restoration of the Daleks. There’s some bigger changes, but mainly it’s just a reshuffle of the stories and removing those unnecessary appearances by the Daleks that inadvertently bog down the story at hand. Then the reappearance of the Daleks & Davros in Palindrome feels even more epic than the story already is, leading into Restoration of the Daleks (which I admittedly haven’t heard yet), which in turn leads onto wherever the range goes next. That would presumably be a Doctor a little more akin to what we see outside of his own range, such as Lie of Ruins, Rage of the Time Lords, etc. It’s not actually something I’ve thought about massively; it’s just what I thought when listening to Dreadshade today and I was going to wait until after finishing the set to talk about, but now seemed a good opportunity.
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Post by Kestrel on Sept 17, 2020 22:17:20 GMT
So I'm not going to read anything in this thread yet, but I do have one question I'd like answered, so I'd really appreciate it if someone could quote this post to provide an answer. I promise I'll dive into this discussion in earnest once I'm able to listen to the set, but I'm only at 8DTW2, and I gotta pace myself on McGann's stories, otherwise I'd binge the lot in a single day.
So what I want to know is this: does 8DTW4 mark the "end" of Bliss' time as a companion?
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Sept 17, 2020 22:20:31 GMT
So I'm not going to read anything in this thread yet, but I do have one question I'd like answered, so I'd really appreciate it if someone could quote this post to provide an answer. I promise I'll dive into this discussion in earnest once I'm able to listen to the set, but I'm only at 8DTW2, and I gotta pace myself on McGann's stories, otherwise I'd binge the lot in a single day. So what I want to know is this: does 8DTW4 mark the "end" of Bliss' time as a companion? No
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Post by Kestrel on Sept 18, 2020 2:00:53 GMT
Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 6:21:47 GMT
Good post. I think it's interesting that someone else had this comment about the story order. I had the same comment about the first set, and the same starting into this set - I think I was trying to leave everything as much of a surprise as possible and hadn't expected Davros until later on - but I started to wonder if that really was the point that we get a sense of the disjointedness of events in the Time War. Story order is rarely if ever a complaint I've had about any other box sets, Big Finish usually seems to have a fairly impeccable sense of arranging stories so that they do feel like they're in the right order. I still have the last story to go but whatever happens I think I could end up fairly content that it comes with the territory. It's starting to feel like a slightly odd complaint to have about timey-wimeyness when that's the first thing about this set that I want to complement is that John Dorney's wonderful gift for writing timey-wimey stories that don't feel gimmicky is very much in evidence here. It will be interesting to see what I think about the story order for the series later on if I go back and listen to it as a whole. Hmm, I don’t think it’s an odd complaint just because the concept of the Time War and some of the stories feature different timelines and delve into that in detail. There still needs to be the sense of cohesion and it needs to be dramatically satisfying. The reason I had my thought when listening to Dreadshade is partially because I was intrigued by the references to past stories, which made me think about them in detail, and also because I was grateful for a story without the Daleks. I absolutely love the Daleks, but a lot of this range is dominated by constant dealings with Gallifrey, near misses with the Daleks and a tacked on Time War environment. It’s also balancing itself between a more relaxed Doctor than in Dark Eyes, Doom Coalition & Ravenous, with some lighter stories to boot, but also tries to constantly put the Doctor in the midst of the Time War. In a strange way, I think the series should have perhaps distanced itself from the Time War a little. Have one or two Time War stories or elements a set, but also go for those standalone, fun and care free stories that hark back to the Lucie or Charley days. After all, this is a Doctor who is very much against fighting in the Time War, but is aware of its ongoing presence. And, in hindsight, it’s something which could’ve easily been avoided. The War Valeyard and the events in that story should’ve happened in the second set. That way we get a running theme where the Doctor is picking up the pieces throughout and the stories stand on their own better, without having to spend time weaving the Daleks into them. The Time War has caused all of these events and stories to unfold, but you get a legitimate reason for a more laid back and care free Doctor and he’s actively avoiding the Time War because he isn’t actually aware of it for the bulk of the range, though it’s effects are still very much a presence. Ideally I’d change the first set more, so it’s the Doctor & Sheena having regular adventures, with Starship of Theseus being the finale and propelling the Doctor into the Time War. Then the second set is a couple of stories from the second and third series, finishing with The War Valeyard. The third set would be repurposed to remove the Daleks & direct mentions of the Time War to reflect the events of the War Valeyard. The fourth set would be Dreadshade, where the Doctor realises the events of The War Valeyard, then Palindrome and then Restoration of the Daleks. There’s some bigger changes, but mainly it’s just a reshuffle of the stories and removing those unnecessary appearances by the Daleks that inadvertently bog down the story at hand. Then the reappearance of the Daleks & Davros in Palindrome feels even more epic than the story already is, leading into Restoration of the Daleks (which I admittedly haven’t heard yet), which in turn leads onto wherever the range goes next. That would presumably be a Doctor a little more akin to what we see outside of his own range, such as Lie of Ruins, Rage of the Time Lords, etc. It’s not actually something I’ve thought about massively; it’s just what I thought when listening to Dreadshade today and I was going to wait until after finishing the set to talk about, but now seemed a good opportunity. I would hate to see what thinking massively is like 🤪😉
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Sept 18, 2020 10:54:53 GMT
According to the extras, The War Valeyard wasn’t originally supposed to happen and Palindrome was supposed to be in Volume 3.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 11:28:21 GMT
According to the extras, The War Valeyard wasn’t originally supposed to happen and Palindrome was supposed to be in Volume 3. So basically I can take my CD box sets and start juggling and slotting the episodes into different sets and see if it gets any better....I think this set really works so well together...least I can attempt that you cannot do that with a download...or maybe you can hahahaha
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 18, 2020 11:30:36 GMT
According to the extras, The War Valeyard wasn’t originally supposed to happen and Palindrome was supposed to be in Volume 3. Thank god the war valeyard was made it was the only good story from volume 3
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Post by shallacatop on Sept 18, 2020 14:23:10 GMT
I thought Restoration of the Daleks was another strong entry. Great performances from McGann & Molloy, with Briggs on fine form playing the Dalek Time Strategist and the Emperor Dalek. Those two, along with the new series Supreme, are my favourites of his. I wasn't keen on the "move the planet out of the line of fire" resolution. It's happened in another Time War story or two, if I remember correctly, and it seems a cop out that undermines the centuries of thinking and sheer effort the Doctors go to in The Day of the Doctor. And I'm a little indifferent to the cliffhanger ending, but I appreciate that it means a lot to a great deal of listeners.
Overall, it's a really strong set, quite easily the best of the range and it's certainly helped me with my overall view on this run of stories. I'm shocked to read that The War Valeyard wasn't originally planned, as I think the events of that story and how it influenced this set really gave the range the shot in the arm it needed. The range would definitely be poorer without it, in my opinion. As I mentioned in my previous post, I feel as though this run of stories is perhaps in the wrong order and I'd like to have seen The War Valeyard be earlier and some of the existing stories be a little reworked to remove the Daleks and direct mentions of the Time War. They're still very much Time War stories, but they can stand on their own feet a little more, go in depth into how it's had an impact on different planets and civilisations, including Gallifrey, and it does help with the portrayal of the Doctor and his avoidance of the War. They would have been suitably high concept too, with the different multiverses; there's an irony that they'd be stronger Time War stories, despite not obviously being Time War stories to our characters!
I'm still not keen on Bliss, and I don't think that will change, though I am pleasantly surprised she didn't turn out to be a Time War superweapon. I thought she was that bland it was inevitable in a couple of the earlier sets! I am now happy enough with the range, specifically the recent run of adventures, where I think I'll invest in a continuation of The Eighth Doctor: The Time War. I do maintain there's a better version of this range out there, though.
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Post by shallacatop on Sept 18, 2020 14:24:08 GMT
Hmm, I don’t think it’s an odd complaint just because the concept of the Time War and some of the stories feature different timelines and delve into that in detail. There still needs to be the sense of cohesion and it needs to be dramatically satisfying. The reason I had my thought when listening to Dreadshade is partially because I was intrigued by the references to past stories, which made me think about them in detail, and also because I was grateful for a story without the Daleks. I absolutely love the Daleks, but a lot of this range is dominated by constant dealings with Gallifrey, near misses with the Daleks and a tacked on Time War environment. It’s also balancing itself between a more relaxed Doctor than in Dark Eyes, Doom Coalition & Ravenous, with some lighter stories to boot, but also tries to constantly put the Doctor in the midst of the Time War. In a strange way, I think the series should have perhaps distanced itself from the Time War a little. Have one or two Time War stories or elements a set, but also go for those standalone, fun and care free stories that hark back to the Lucie or Charley days. After all, this is a Doctor who is very much against fighting in the Time War, but is aware of its ongoing presence. And, in hindsight, it’s something which could’ve easily been avoided. The War Valeyard and the events in that story should’ve happened in the second set. That way we get a running theme where the Doctor is picking up the pieces throughout and the stories stand on their own better, without having to spend time weaving the Daleks into them. The Time War has caused all of these events and stories to unfold, but you get a legitimate reason for a more laid back and care free Doctor and he’s actively avoiding the Time War because he isn’t actually aware of it for the bulk of the range, though it’s effects are still very much a presence. Ideally I’d change the first set more, so it’s the Doctor & Sheena having regular adventures, with Starship of Theseus being the finale and propelling the Doctor into the Time War. Then the second set is a couple of stories from the second and third series, finishing with The War Valeyard. The third set would be repurposed to remove the Daleks & direct mentions of the Time War to reflect the events of the War Valeyard. The fourth set would be Dreadshade, where the Doctor realises the events of The War Valeyard, then Palindrome and then Restoration of the Daleks. There’s some bigger changes, but mainly it’s just a reshuffle of the stories and removing those unnecessary appearances by the Daleks that inadvertently bog down the story at hand. Then the reappearance of the Daleks & Davros in Palindrome feels even more epic than the story already is, leading into Restoration of the Daleks (which I admittedly haven’t heard yet), which in turn leads onto wherever the range goes next. That would presumably be a Doctor a little more akin to what we see outside of his own range, such as Lie of Ruins, Rage of the Time Lords, etc. It’s not actually something I’ve thought about massively; it’s just what I thought when listening to Dreadshade today and I was going to wait until after finishing the set to talk about, but now seemed a good opportunity. I would hate to see what thinking massively is like 🤪😉 Ha, indeed! The quoted post is just an example of my usual ramblings!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 14:28:37 GMT
I would hate to see what thinking massively is like 🤪😉 Ha, indeed! The quoted post is just an example of my usual ramblings! Am not very eloquent so I love reading other people’s stuff I usually get enlightened a lot with your thoughts and the many others it enhances my audio listening a lot...normally with a why can’t I write that ?
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Post by inchmix on Sept 18, 2020 20:34:56 GMT
Just finished this set and really enjoyed it. Loved the ending. It was a 'what-the-hell?-How-is-this-possible?' moment. I was going to relisten to the 4 volumes thinking this range was completed. But I will hold off
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 18, 2020 20:45:50 GMT
So I just finished the set.
Dreadshade- first thought: okay.... so the Eighth Doctor has amnesia. How novel. Luckily it was getting better after that. However, after Palindrome, anything would have been a step down.
This one is much more in line with the other stories in the range- as Causality puts it "Weapon of the Week" type of story. I am a bit disappointed that the Twelve did not have a bigger part, she feels a bit wasted in this.
And I definitely hope we have not seen the last of her.
So in conclusion, this was not a bad story, but also nothing really amazing.
Restoration of the Daleks- this was a satisfying finale. A bit too heavy on the Dalek screaming for my taste, but that just is the nature of the thing. The story itself did not really surprise me, but it was still enjoyable to speed along with it. I again think Terry Molloy was amazing in this. To be honest, this set has, for me, the best Davros appearances for me yet. As for the ending {Spoiler} Looks as if we will get a male companion next? Kind of? Finally. This is what we needed! Of course I have a suspicion of how all this will end.... I would actually be pretty disappointed if they did not use this to let it play out to the end. And show an utterly destroyed broken Doctor.... The man who is catatonic and crying in "Lies in Ruins". In conclusion- this is easily my favorite set of the range, yet. But this is not thanks to 8 and Bliss, but to Davros. Involving him was a fantastic idea.
As for the discussion about Bliss... hmm. She is not my favorite companion, on the other hand, she is also not one of the ones that annoy me (like Lucie). Bliss is... fine. Sadly that's all.
Plus, there might be a prospect that the companion situation is shaken up a bit in the potential future... might even breath some fresh air into the character of Bliss.
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Post by Digi on Sept 19, 2020 1:15:34 GMT
Just finished off the set with Restoration of the Daleks, and holy heck that was an absolute banger of a story. Hurry up and announce Volume 5, please and thank you!
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Post by Andymac on Sept 19, 2020 1:57:17 GMT
So I'm not going to read anything in this thread yet, but I do have one question I'd like answered, so I'd really appreciate it if someone could quote this post to provide an answer. I promise I'll dive into this discussion in earnest once I'm able to listen to the set, but I'm only at 8DTW2, and I gotta pace myself on McGann's stories, otherwise I'd binge the lot in a single day. So what I want to know is this: does 8DTW4 mark the "end" of Bliss' time as a companion? Nope.
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Post by Andymac on Sept 19, 2020 2:00:03 GMT
Well that was an intense set to listen to in one go. Which I did while ill. (Not as unwise as my continual listening to Torchwood or Dorian Grey in the dark when I can't sleep admittedly)
I really hope the make a Volume 5 or some kind of Time War mini series follow up.
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Post by Digi on Sept 19, 2020 2:09:40 GMT
Listening to the behind the scenes ‘disc’ — I’m always so heartened to hear Paul sounding like he’s really enjoying himself. The direction that his storytelling has gone has me perpetually on edge that he could retire from the role at any time, so it’s very comforting to hear him sounding like he’s still having fun after all these years; gives me hope that there are still years to come.
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Post by Andymac on Sept 19, 2020 2:14:44 GMT
Listening to the behind the scenes ‘disc’ — I’m always so heartened to hear Paul sounding like he’s really enjoying himself. The direction that his storytelling has gone has me perpetually on edge that he could retire from the role at any time, so it’s very comforting to hear him sounding like he’s still having fun after all these years; gives me hope that there are still years to come.
It's probably really helping that he's doing Time War stuff, Stranded and Lucie Miller all at the same time. At the point he was considering giving up he was only getting to do one story (Charley/Ceris) and it went on a little longer than it should of. He seems like an actor who's more interested in the character than the story, he always talks about where they are going.
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Post by jahawk2009 on Sept 19, 2020 7:48:36 GMT
Listening to the behind the scenes ‘disc’ — I’m always so heartened to hear Paul sounding like he’s really enjoying himself. The direction that his storytelling has gone has me perpetually on edge that he could retire from the role at any time, so it’s very comforting to hear him sounding like he’s still having fun after all these years; gives me hope that there are still years to come.
It's probably really helping that he's doing Time War stuff, Stranded and Lucie Miller all at the same time. At the point he was considering giving up he was only getting to do one story (Charley/Ceris) and it went on a little longer than it should of. He seems like an actor who's more interested in the character than the story, he always talks about where they are going.
Met him at a convention before the world went crazy. He was very excited about the fact he plays 1 Doctor that can be 4 different characters depending on the script, so I think you're right about him loving the variety
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 19, 2020 7:51:31 GMT
Listening to the behind the scenes ‘disc’ — I’m always so heartened to hear Paul sounding like he’s really enjoying himself. The direction that his storytelling has gone has me perpetually on edge that he could retire from the role at any time, so it’s very comforting to hear him sounding like he’s still having fun after all these years; gives me hope that there are still years to come. He has been for a while now. He has really taken charge of this. And he even has introduced some friends to Big Finish and gave them jobs. {Spoiler} And, as of the ending, it looks he has done this again with family.
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