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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2020 4:19:07 GMT
I enjoyed how little dissonance there was between the live action and animated versions for The Moonbase. The Troughton stories seem to have struck out well so far, the majority I've seen -- The Invasion, The Macra Terror, The Moonbase -- have all come together rather nicely. That science fiction setting must help enormously. I like what was attempted for The Reign of Terror, but unfortunately, I think the pacing was a bit off. There were a lot of furtive glances and attempts at photorealistic movement for the faces, which pulled me out of it. It was nearly there. We nearly had a Doctor Who historical retold as an anime. The irony seems to be the closer it is to pure animation, the more it gels. The Cosgrove Hall style for Invasion still holds up even today. Speaking of which, and at the risk of getting vaguely off-topic, does anyone remember The Infinite Quest? Tenth Doctor and Martha try to outpace an interstellar pirate searching for mythical vessel. I have to admit Reign of Terror was my least favorite because of the constant cutting which was totally out of place for the show. It's like, a few characters are having a simple conversation, but the animation is like: cut to Ian looking around nervously, cut to a bottle on the table, cut to the Doctor's eyeball, cut to a door handle being opened, on and on and on. Very distracting! I hadn't thought about it working better when it's not trying to be so realistic, but you're probably right. I would pay good money for an animated Marco Polo, but I don't know if they could make it look good since human beings seem to be the stumbling block moreso than ships, monsters, and so forth. Right! That was my issue too. An editing technique that may have worked for a modern production, but for something like Terror, felt very out of place. Almost like the animation didn't trust us to remain with the story without these distractions. It's a shame because, come The Tenth Planet, and they've nailed it. Me as well. Something I noticed with many video games over the years: the more stylised the production (or the more it leant into its own style), the better it seems to have withstood the passage of time. The dream would be a professional animation studio takes up Marco Polo. People do seem to be the toughest part of the process, yeah. It's that need to fill in the body language between actors. The wry smiles or tilts of the head that you lose in telesnaps. The lack of any surviving clips or episodes is a two-edged sword. On the one hand, it could fare a bit better than its contemporaries in its cast because there isn't any live-action to compare it with. They react however the animation team wants them to react. However, that also means that everything has to be more or less composed from scratch. Including the lighting, sets and the directorial style. I find the monochrome Loose Cannon reconstructions are very well "shot", in that way. They keep the story's pace without distracting from it and you have a nice sense of where the characters are at any given moment. It'd make a good basis for a storyboard, after a fashion, not just for Marco Polo but others as well like The Daleks' Master Plan or The Crusade. The scene I want to see done for Master Plan would be "Traitor...!" from Brett Vyon when they reach Earth. Get all that emotional language down in Brett before he fires and I think they could pull off the Time Destructor's final activation with ease.
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Post by polly on May 2, 2020 6:00:12 GMT
Right! That was my issue too. An editing technique that may have worked for a modern production, but for something like Terror, felt very out of place. Almost like the animation didn't trust us to remain with the story without these distractions. It's a shame because, come The Tenth Planet, and they've nailed it. Me as well. Something I noticed with many video games over the years: the more stylised the production (or the more it leant into its own style), the better it seems to have withstood the passage of time. The dream would be a professional animation studio takes up Marco Polo. People do seem to be the toughest part of the process, yeah. It's that need to fill in the body language between actors. The wry smiles or tilts of the head that you lose in telesnaps. The lack of any surviving clips or episodes is a two-edged sword. On the one hand, it could fare a bit better than its contemporaries in its cast because there isn't any live-action to compare it with. They react however the animation team wants them to react. However, that also means that everything has to be more or less composed from scratch. Including the lighting, sets and the directorial style. I find the monochrome Loose Cannon reconstructions are very well "shot", in that way. They keep the story's pace without distracting from it and you have a nice sense of where the characters are at any given moment. It'd make a good basis for a storyboard, after a fashion, not just for Marco Polo but others as well like The Daleks' Master Plan or The Crusade. The scene I want to see done for Master Plan would be "Traitor...!" from Brett Vyon when they reach Earth. Get all that emotional language down in Brett before he fires and I think they could pull off the Time Destructor's final activation with ease. Loose Cannon did a great job filling in the holes long before animation was ever an option. Obviously, it's no replacement for the real thing, but thanks to their work I feel as though I have "seen" all of the missing episodes. So, I agree, they're good enough to serve as storyboard ideas for animation projects. No sense wasting such a great resource. Whether it's animation or telesnaps though, no matter what they do or how good they are there will always be those little actor-driven nuances you can't account for from what we have. When Enemy of the World and Web of Fear came back, there were so many little treasures the recons never knew about. I'm definitely up for Master Plan as an animation. I think it would play very well and be quite a big event if they can find the budget for it. In general, as glad as I am to have so much of Pat's run "restored" like this, it'd be nice for Hartnell to get some love.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 2, 2020 18:05:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2020 18:21:41 GMT
Thanks for this, Johnhurtdoctor. It is answering quite a few of my queries watching it right now.... Will you be double-dipping yourself? I am not sold just yet. Hoping to see some comparison scenes in the run-up to release.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 2, 2020 18:23:22 GMT
Thanks for this, Johnhurtdoctor. It is answering quite a few of my queries watching it right now.... Will you be double-dipping yourself? I am not sold just yet. Hoping to see some comparison scenes in the run-up to release. Will wait & see, not on the top of my list.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2020 18:30:50 GMT
Thanks for this, Johnhurtdoctor. It is answering quite a few of my queries watching it right now.... Will you be double-dipping yourself? I am not sold just yet. Hoping to see some comparison scenes in the run-up to release. Will wait & see, not on the top of my list. Likewise. I'm sure its a big improvement, but it's still half the cost towards a Classic Who Blu-Ray box set.
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Post by Whovitt on May 3, 2020 0:47:35 GMT
10 new clips? Even if they're only half a second in length each? I hate myself sometimes, but I'll be getting this Hopefully some will be from Episode 3, that way we'll actually have footage from every single episode! (Oh, and hearing the 8mm footage has been fully restored is also a very exciting prospect!)
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Post by Whovitt on Jun 23, 2020 9:10:14 GMT
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jun 23, 2020 9:16:54 GMT
Of course they won't.. There current history on the reissue Blu rays speaks volumes !
Thanx for the link.
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Post by randomjc on Jul 1, 2020 14:10:08 GMT
Well, of course I find out about this just after I bought the first one. lol
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 14:51:54 GMT
I'm waiting for reviews... Not sure this interests me enough as there is already a watchable version.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 7, 2020 18:48:11 GMT
The latest DWM has a feature on this and goes into detail why the crew decided to do a special edition, which I don’t think you really get from the press release. I think there are valid reasons for doing it and I’m glad the crew are now satisfied with the release.
I’m not sure if I’ll do the double dip. I’m happy with the original release and didn’t really see much issue, except the long gaps with nothing happening, which has now apparently been rectified. I’m not sure if it’s enough of an incentive for me, though!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 15:09:53 GMT
Mine has been "Sent To Warehouse" at Zoom, so should get it for the weekend.
I'm hyped. The animation on Faceless in particular shows how much more movement they can do on this range's characters now, with more dynamic backgrounds. The steelbook packaging and colour version make it worth keeping the old version too. The new extras alone would be a pickup for me, the new animation is the cherry on the cake.
I had heard September was the goal for Fury as the next "new" release but we'll see if that's been delayed like the season sets.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 21, 2020 16:12:37 GMT
Apparently Fury's Special Features package went for final sign off last week (source Chris Chapman's Twitter)
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2020 12:06:10 GMT
The new DWM says there'll be coverage of Fury in the next issue so September is looking good!
Edit: AND...Zavvi have now listed Fury as coming out September 14th.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jul 23, 2020 1:35:32 GMT
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 23, 2020 13:10:39 GMT
& the previous release trailer for comparison.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 12:20:25 GMT
Anyone else bought it then? Mine arrived today. Lovely slipcover with gloss on the titles and the eyestalk with the rest a matte finish, then underneath the option to change to artwork that fits in with the DVD range, roundels and all. There's a nice booklet with liners from Charles explaining why they decided to revisit this, and why there was almost a sense of a job left unfinished in 2016 since the animation was given 4 months less than intially expected. Charles blames the quality of Ep 1's 2016 release for the dropoff in viewers when this was shown on BBC America. What they've done here on top of improving the animation itself in framerate and character movement is tightened up "dead air". Long stretches where nothing happens that you can get away with if using actors as there's a uniqueness to every movement but on animation can be flat. So it's a tighter watch too. It's also explained, as was always the rumour, that the original colour version was only made because there was the fear that American (and it says American, not Canadian, CoffeeAddict!) watchers would be put off if there was only a black and white version. It's always been said there was a much bigger disparity between the sales of colour vs b/w in Region 1/A than in the UK and, honestly, I don't think you can simply say, as BBC Worldwide argued, that Americans aren't as open, on the whole, to black and white. Perhaps there just isn't that nostalgia for Hartnell and Troughton since, as I understand it, most PBS stations who ran the show essentially just ran the colour era, and more likely just Tom's stuff on loop. If there's concern Americans want the most up to date version of something, even if it means colourisation, all the odder that none of these animation even get blurays in the US. It's rated 12 for "mild sex references, brief gore, mild violence and threat"
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 28, 2020 12:40:41 GMT
I've debated buying it, but haven't took the plunge yet. I didn't have an issue with the quality of the animation with the original release, just the "dead air" that @davygallagher mentioned above, but I'm not sure if it was enough to warrant the double dipping. It was more something for the team to improve on, which they've since done with The Macra Terror, The Faceless Ones and I'm sure in the upcoming Fury from the Deep.
I'm glad that Charles Norton and his team are happier with the product now and feel as though they've got the job finished this time around. I've worked on projects in the past that have been rushed for a number of different reasons, all of which were valid, just so we could hit the deadline and it understandably can leave you feel deflated and a lasting example of your work.
I think the press release has done a disservice to this release, though; it was only the brilliant DWM article from last month where I understood why they were doing this Special Edition. In reality the special features are almost incidental.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jul 28, 2020 12:51:07 GMT
Anyone else bought it then? Mine arrived today. Mine came yesterday. Currently held by my wife for 72 hours decontamination before I am allowed it
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