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Sales
May 16, 2020 9:09:11 GMT
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Post by daz on May 16, 2020 9:09:11 GMT
Do any of you have some rough idea of the number of unit sales BF achieve for a story, on average? Like, is it a few thousand, a few tens of thousands?
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Sales
May 16, 2020 9:14:29 GMT
Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 16, 2020 9:14:29 GMT
That is information that they keep very close to their proverbial chests unfortunately.
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Sales
May 16, 2020 10:03:31 GMT
Post by daz on May 16, 2020 10:03:31 GMT
Rightio then.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on May 16, 2020 10:49:47 GMT
IIRC Nicholas Briggs alluded to some of the sales figures in the interview he did with Billie Piper on the podcast a couple of years ago (when the 10DA volume 2 was released)...but that may be my memory playing tricks on me. I'm sure I've read somewhere that the 4th and 8th Doctors are the biggest selling of the Doctors, (or were until recently, wouldn't be surprised if the 10DA's are big sellers as well) but not sure if that refers to merely CD or sale figures on initial release, or in a more general sense. Perhaps looking at the CD print runs for some of the limited editions gives some indication of how popular (or not) certain stories are? The Light at The End limited edition for instance still hasn't sold out, nearly 7 years after release (and having been on sale numerous times). We also know that low sales have been a contributing factor to the fate of certain ranges (e.g. The Doctor who novel adaptations ending, The David Warner Doctor joining the Bernice Summerfield range), on the other hand I think Class volume 3/4 have larger print runs than the first two? Of course, not all ranges are released on CD and some are on sale more often than others... It's an interesting topic for discussion but as aussiedoctorwhofan says, this is in information BF keeps pretty private (which is completely understandable i.m.o) and the best we can do is make guesses... |
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Deleted
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Sales
May 16, 2020 11:02:28 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 11:02:28 GMT
I do recall it being said by Nick or someone else that part of the rights agreement with the BBC was that they did not reveal/publish their sales figures, for charts purposes. Seeing sales rise/fall would just have been tabloid fodder. 'Oh look, an independent is making a success of it where the BBC could not!', 'Oh look, its losing popularity again!', ad-infinitum.
He did say that there are categories where they would have regularly charted highly, were they able to reveal the figures.
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May 16, 2020 12:32:45 GMT
Post by mark687 on May 16, 2020 12:32:45 GMT
Don't know figures but
Last Year BF Teetered that:
War Doc Only the Monstrous
War Master Only the Good
and
the 1st Vol of 8th Doc Time War
Were the best sellers of their years of release and last years was Legacy of Time
Historically 4th Doc titles are said to be the most consistent sellers followed by 8th Doc ones.
Regards
mark687
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Stevo
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Post by Stevo on May 16, 2020 12:36:17 GMT
He did say that there are categories where they would have regularly charted highly, were they able to reveal the figures. I assume that some of Tom's Fourth Doctor stories would feature in that... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 15:01:44 GMT
He did say that there are categories where they would have regularly charted highly, were they able to reveal the figures. I assume that some of Tom's Fourth Doctor stories would feature in that... Well yeah - I bought individually, the first 4 of his first BF series from Waterstones when they came out, which got me back into their works and onto the website and about 200 or more purchases since. They seemed a must listen when they were released. A gateway range to many, really. |
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Stevo
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Sales
May 16, 2020 17:51:34 GMT
Post by Stevo on May 16, 2020 17:51:34 GMT
They seemed a must listen when they were released. They most certainly were... and still are! |
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Post by project37 on May 16, 2020 20:51:13 GMT
In this promotional interview for the BF podcast, Billie Piper mentions fan interest in Rose returning to Big Finish and asks Nick how many people actually listen.
You can hear the reply at the 4:40 mark, which is the most specific I've ever heard. She's genuinely surprised that the number isn't higher:
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Sales
May 17, 2020 4:13:01 GMT
Post by daz on May 17, 2020 4:13:01 GMT
I wonder whether Nicholas was just trying to underplay it rather than give Billie some negotiating power for a bigger paycheque...
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Post by nucleusofswarm on May 17, 2020 10:36:33 GMT
I did a thread on this subject a couple of years back: notthebigfinishforum.freeforums.net/thread/2585/sales-figures-size-finishs-consumerNeedless to say... boy did I overestimate. Ha ha, 20,000... ooh. So, here's some things I can offer: I was mentored back at film school by a writer from the Dark Shadows range, who said he got only 1K for a 60 minute script. Add to that that Eddie Robson, on a Twitter post about writing earnings and what made the most, didn't mention BF, even though he has written multiple releases in any given year, does give an idea of how tight the budgets are and, indirectly, how much any possible release might sell to cover costs and turn a profit. If you sell, say, 100 copies of a £14.99 release, then you've covered the writer's fee, with a little extra. If you sell 100 £65 subscription bundles, that's £6500. £109 bundle - just under £11K. If we use Nick's reference in the interview, let's say, 10DA Vol.2 sold about 3K, times that by 29.99 - that comes out to just under £90K. That sounds like a lot, but when you factor in the amount of productions BF are doing at any one time, and all the people working on those, that cash gets eaten up fairly quickly. And that's for an exceptional range - I imagine many don't sell even half that. |
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May 17, 2020 12:17:45 GMT
Post by daz on May 17, 2020 12:17:45 GMT
There is a site, owler, that estimates revenue: I've no idea of its sources. It gives BFP's revenue as 26 million USD per annum. Given that in a year they typically have 100 productions (not just DW), and the average cost is, I dunno ... $20? Trying to average out the expensive ones and the cheap ones. That would give 13000 units per production. Then again I suppose they are still making sales from items back to the 1990s, not just the recent work. And Lord knows where that estimate of revenue comes from.
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May 17, 2020 12:32:43 GMT
Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 17, 2020 12:32:43 GMT
I wonder whether Nicholas was just trying to underplay it rather than give Billie some negotiating power for a bigger paycheque... I doubt that very much. I do think piracy has a part to play sadly. I agree with Billie's comments about promotion, the PR department of BF is dire. But why are you interested in the sales figures? |
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May 17, 2020 12:35:27 GMT
Post by daz on May 17, 2020 12:35:27 GMT
Seriously, just idle curiosity. I was pondering how profitable the productions were. I mean I'm sure Derek Jacobi ain't working for a plate of beans.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on May 17, 2020 12:42:04 GMT
There is a site, owler, that estimates revenue: I've no idea of its sources. It gives BFP's revenue as 26 million USD per annum. Given that in a year they typically have 100 productions (not just DW), and the average cost is, I dunno ... $20? Trying to average out the expensive ones and the cheap ones. That would give 13000 units per production. Then again I suppose they are still making sales from items back to the 1990s, not just the recent work. And Lord knows where that estimate of revenue comes from. Yeah, I'm thinking that may be too high an estimate. Even with lifetime sales of older titles, I can't see many releases even doing 13K.
If I had to offer something more specific, I'd say this - To cover all the costs of an individual production (cast and crew, equipment, facilities, cover art designer, cd printing, other related bills) of, say, a £14.99 release, I'd hazard at least maybe around 400 units would need to be sold. If we go by the Hollywood metric of make back twice what you cost to turn a profit, then you're looking at 800-900 units that need to be sold, for a range to keep going. The Who-related stuff likely clears this with ease, but if the 10DAs' ceiling is around 3K (4K, if you want to be generous, and let's say, 4/8DAs are not far behind), then I'd say your typical release sells maybe around 1K, give or take a few hundred more. |
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aztec
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Sales
May 17, 2020 13:26:41 GMT
Post by aztec on May 17, 2020 13:26:41 GMT
You'd also have to take into account how many customers buy products on initial release (or pre-order) direct from BF, and how many wait for sales or buy the CD's from other sources (e.g. Amazon sells quite a few BF CD's, and I've seen them in Forbidden Planet, WHSmiths and Waterstones).
The price reductions on the first 50 monthly stories were one of the reasons I got into BF (though the first story I heard was actually Situation Vacant on BBC Radio, and I had no idea there were Doctor Who audio dramas until The Night Of The Doctor), and I've seen various other people say the same on reddit, gallifreybase etc, I wonder if the stories uploaded to spotify etc in recent years have also been successful at bringing in new customers/cross promotion?
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mbt66
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Sales
May 17, 2020 14:16:45 GMT
Post by mbt66 on May 17, 2020 14:16:45 GMT
Hopefully the cross promotion given with the Time Lord Victorious project will help both raise their profile and/or entice new customers.
Before the announcement I had never looked at the Eagle Moss website and had never pre-ordered a Doctor Who novel...I now have two on order!
Although if you are a Doctor Who fan I would have thought it hard not to know about Big Finish.
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Post by muckypup on May 17, 2020 15:17:26 GMT
Putting the bits and bobs together over the years......I think the average release sells somewhere between 1-2 k units.......
and the average cost to make is somewhere between 15-25k per release
That’s all guesstimates but based on bits and bobs over the years
There are exceptions like the big multi doc releases and ones that are so good everyone recommends them
But commercially they are not making big bucks after wages and distribution.........it makes enough to for them to carry on
And doing a job you enjoy and makes people happy is is big finishes motivation not big profits.......
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May 17, 2020 18:38:32 GMT
Post by pazzer on May 17, 2020 18:38:32 GMT
They make enough to stay in business and keep producing quality audio drama. Which is all that matters to me. As for actual sales numbers think the closest we got was what Nick said on the podcast which was still pretty vague. Though am surprised that Big finish estimates it loses up to three quarters potential revenue to piracy.
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