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Post by ollychops on May 25, 2020 19:21:04 GMT
Glad that we finally got an update on the changes. Funnily enough, my main issue with the news is the suggestion that we’re getting Season 6B stories...
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Post by tuigirl on May 25, 2020 19:22:04 GMT
Hmm... not surprised by this development. And this is basically what some members of this forum were predicting months ago. One the one hand, this is sad. I quite liked the Main Range releases. On the other hand, I am pretty sure that BF has a good idea how they want to handle this. I just hope it won't all be either epic long stories or 1 hour adventures. I really hope they do not use the 1 hour 4th Doctor adventures as an example because most of them I found disappointing. I think we will have to see what they come up with. Come to think of it- I think they might do an epic conclusion story for the last few releases- maybe some team-up of the 3 main stars of this range. Just to bring it to an end with a "Big Finish". At least now I got the chance to finalize my subscription and got all the last releases under one hat.
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Post by idle453 on May 25, 2020 19:23:00 GMT
I don't normally rant, but, I personally find the reasoning of too hard to figure out where to start hard to understand. Background. I am a collector and I like complete sets. All the renumbering of comics drives me crazy. I feel that issue 247 shows a better (or at least long lasting) product than the 7th issue 23. Also, I can't really afford routine purchases of full price boxsets. I had to not get Big Finish for years because I couldn't afford the exchange rate and shipping. As such, I still have many main range releases to get and I can afford to buy a random single release easier than a boxset. In a few years, I will have to slow down my purchases. I am in the US, and learned about Doctor Who through our PBS channel. starting in 1981.
And this is why the reasoning doesn't work for me. When I started watching, my friend mentioned that there was a previous doctor before the one on now. (Howstrange that sounded to me at the time.) My first episode was episode four of The Invisible Enemy. This was on a Friday and I thought that the show was only on Fridays. The next week I saw episode 1 of The Sunmakers. The third week I saw episode 2 of Underworld. It took me four years to see the rest of Sunmakers. There was a little confusion but not too bad. I ended up seeing the doctors in the order 4, Five Doctors, 4, 3, 5, 4, 6, 1, 7, 2. It did not bother me that I was seeing them out of order. When I started buying Big Finish, my first was Doctor Who and the Pirates. I was okay not knowing Evelyn's backstory, I would get it eventually. And I have, there is only one more Evelyn story I need and that's the Companion Chronicle. Then I got Zagreus and found it interesting even though, the last I had seen of 8, he was saying goodbye to Grace. I started buying comics with issues in the hundreds and just had to figure out what I had missed. I know comics at the time were pretty much self contained stories but so are most of the monthly ranges. Continuing characters but not too often continuing stories in the sense that you have to hear x before y.
Also the whole concept of following along a series based on time travel when the (now) majority of stories are sandwiched in between old stories seems ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I like to know what came before and what came next but having to hear them in the order they occur seems, for the most part, unnecessary. (As an aside, one of the most infuriating things, I saw recently was someone relieved that they finally explained why Captain Rex wasn't seen in Revenge of the Sith. The correct answer is that he HADN'T BEEN CREATED when ROTS came out.) Find the stories that sound interesting to you and don't worry too much about if you know all the details. My third Big Finish purchase was Lanyon Moor because I wanted to hear 6 and the Brig meet.I was not disappointed.
Maybe I am an oddity. It wouldn't be the first time. I see no reason why buyers get overly confused by the high numbers.(Also, if you see release 212 and wonder where to start to get it all, 1 is a pretty good option.) I don't blame BF for doing this because I am sure there are buyers who won't start something that high but it irritates me that they feel the need to. I'll survive and I'll still buy.
Thanks for reading (or ignoring) my rant.
One thought though. The article says "what happened to the Second Doctor after War Games" not a direct mention of series 6B. What if they go the route of the Doctor being forced to work for the CIA a while as extra punishment before the forced regenteration into 3. It's been a while, but I don't think we saw the regeneration until the next episode. This could give 2 a whole new era and new companions without having to confirm or deny 6B.
IDLE
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,849
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Post by aztec on May 25, 2020 19:26:09 GMT
Interesting that David Richardson doesn't refer to any of the monthly range Doctors there...
Also interesting...hmm we know The Early Adventures have been cut back to two releases a year, The Companion Chronicles cover both the 1st/2nd Doctors and the 1st/3rd Doctors already have their own boxset ranges...so naturally reading too much into these short quotes...I'm going to assume (wrongly no doubt) David Richardson was hinting at a brand new 2nd Doctor boxset range covering Season 6b perhaps with a recast and new companions.
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Post by nottenst on May 25, 2020 19:35:14 GMT
I have 13 left in the main range (my last one is 262). I still need to decide whether I want to have the complete run on CD or just finish out as a download. I'll need to contact them eventually.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 25, 2020 19:36:22 GMT
Interesting that David Richardson doesn't refer to any of the monthly range Doctors there... Also interesting...hmm we know The Early Adventures have been cut back to two releases a year, The Companion Chronicles cover both the 1st/2nd Doctors and the 1st/3rd Doctors already have their own boxset ranges...so naturally reading too much into these short quotes...I'm going to assume (wrongly no doubt) David Richardson was hinting at a brand new 2nd Doctor boxset range covering Season 6b perhaps with a recast and new companions. I have certainly taken David's remarks to mean, or at least strongly imply, that we have a recast 2nd Doctor coming up.
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Post by polly on May 25, 2020 19:36:24 GMT
I try not to throw knee-jerk temper tantrums, but this is exactly the sort of news I did not want. For several reasons.
1. The Main Range has been the backbone of Big Finish for over 20 years and throwing it away makes me sad.
2. Big Finish's increasing reliance on box sets is extremely frustrating to me. The higher up front cost makes me less likely to purchase them. If they ever come up with a new overseas pricing policy, that cost might only increase.
3. I like to cherrypick unless it's a big sale, and since most of box set contents are not available standalone, interesting stories get saddled with things I don't want but would be forced to buy anyway, which I know is exactly what they want.
4. The move to box sets sounds as though they're going to play around with the length. I preferred the MR's reliable flow of two-hour, four part stories in the style of the classic series. The odd experiment or "Other Stories" release is fine and dandy, but for the most part I find longer stories bloated and shorter ones like the 4DAs too insubstantial.
5. Most of the ideas floated in the article are really unappealing. 1/Dodo adventures will have to be recasts, no thank you. Post-War Games Troughton I don't want because I hate the 6B idea. It undercuts War Games' powerful ending and is a classic case of not leaving well enough alone. 3/Sarah Jane is more recasts. Seven's Last Ride is about the only one that piques my interest personally.
6. This will not make Big Finish more accessible to newcomers. All it does it further fragment the company's Doctor Who output, which is already shattered into a million pieces and is very confusing for the uninitiated. Add to that the aforementioned cost of box sets, which is far higher than most casual customers would be willing to pay. At least with the Main Range you could tell a new person "Yeah, there's lots of spinoffs and specials, but this is the flagship show and it's all numbered in order" and so on. You know what did help attract new listeners, at least from my experience? The cheapie prices on early Main Range titles. $3 is much more palatable for people than $30. You can often buy an entire season of television for what Big Finish asks for an Eighth Doctor box.
And as for continuity being newbie friendly, it was my understanding that most of the really long MR arcs had been concluded years ago. Meanwhile Nick's quoted about introducing more arcs.
For my own purchasing habits, this is probably going to tank the frequency and number of releases I buy. It seems like everything but Torchwood has abandoned single releases and I just can't afford it.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 25, 2020 19:39:16 GMT
Hmm...come to think of it, do we think a move to boxsets will increase/decrease the importance of story arcs for the 5th-7th Doctors? Could we see a 5th Doctor Doom Coalition style arc? It's funny, I asked that same question almost exactly to Nick via the podcast email.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 25, 2020 19:44:55 GMT
6. This will not make Big Finish more accessible to newcomers. All it does it further fragment the company's Doctor Who output, which is already shattered into a million pieces and is very confusing for the uninitiated. Add to that the aforementioned cost of box sets, which is far higher than most casual customers would be willing to pay. At least with the Main Range you could tell a new person "Yeah, there's lots of spinoffs and specials, but this is the flagship show and it's all numbered in order" and so on. You know what did help attract new listeners, at least anecdotally from my experience? The cheapie prices on early Main Range titles. $3 is much more palatable for people than $30. You can often buy an entire season of television for what Big Finish asks for an Eighth Doctor box. And as for continuity being newbie friendly, it was my understanding that most of the really long MR arcs had been concluded years ago. Meanwhile Nick's quoted about introducing more arcs. For my own purchasing habits, this is probably going to tank the frequency and number of releases I buy. It seems like everything but Torchwood has abandoned single releases and I just can't afford it. Really good point. Also, personally I have no interest in all this 6b stuff, nor do I care about where the First Doctor and Dodo went after leaving the planet of The Savages. I can't imagine new fans, which BF claim to be wanting to get onboard, do either.
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Post by tuigirl on May 25, 2020 19:47:05 GMT
6. This will not make Big Finish more accessible to newcomers. All it does it further fragment the company's Doctor Who output, which is already shattered into a million pieces and is very confusing for the uninitiated. Add to that the aforementioned cost of box sets, which is far higher than most casual customers would be willing to pay. At least with the Main Range you could tell a new person "Yeah, there's lots of spinoffs and specials, but this is the flagship show and it's all numbered in order" and so on. You know what did help attract new listeners, at least anecdotally from my experience? The cheapie prices on early Main Range titles. $3 is much more palatable for people than $30. You can often buy an entire season of television for what Big Finish asks for an Eighth Doctor box. And as for continuity being newbie friendly, it was my understanding that most of the really long MR arcs had been concluded years ago. Meanwhile Nick's quoted about introducing more arcs. For my own purchasing habits, this is probably going to tank the frequency and number of releases I buy. It seems like everything but Torchwood has abandoned single releases and I just can't afford it. Really good point. Also, personally I have no interest in all this 6b stuff, nor do I care about where the First Doctor and Dodo went after leaving the planet of The Savages. I can't imagine new fans, which BF claim to be wanting to get onboard, do either. Yeah, I also have to admit that neither ideas enthuse me. At all.
So not really on board with that.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,849
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Post by aztec on May 25, 2020 19:51:30 GMT
One thing which isn't clear to me is exactly what format these boxsets will take, are we going to get a series 2x2 hour standalone stories like the 1DA's or a series of 4x4 hour arc heavy Titled boxsets akin to Dark Eyes, Ravenous etc...because depending on the approach I think that's going to effect just how accessible this will be for new listeners (and how supportive long term listeners will be) To be frank one of the reasons I like BF is nostalgia...which I'm sure goes for many of the monthly range subscribers as well...I'm not sure I'd enjoy say, the likes of the 6th Doctor headlining a modern style 16 part universe ending epic in an attempt to bring in new listeners, at the expense of alienating the old ones. I also feel that this could lessen the character of the 8th Doctor's range, I kinda liked that only McGann had the arc driven boxsets, it felt like a midway point between Classic/New who style storytelling and gave the range its own indentity and importance.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,849
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Post by aztec on May 25, 2020 19:54:01 GMT
6. This will not make Big Finish more accessible to newcomers. All it does it further fragment the company's Doctor Who output, which is already shattered into a million pieces and is very confusing for the uninitiated. Add to that the aforementioned cost of box sets, which is far higher than most casual customers would be willing to pay. At least with the Main Range you could tell a new person "Yeah, there's lots of spinoffs and specials, but this is the flagship show and it's all numbered in order" and so on. You know what did help attract new listeners, at least anecdotally from my experience? The cheapie prices on early Main Range titles. $3 is much more palatable for people than $30. You can often buy an entire season of television for what Big Finish asks for an Eighth Doctor box. And as for continuity being newbie friendly, it was my understanding that most of the really long MR arcs had been concluded years ago. Meanwhile Nick's quoted about introducing more arcs. For my own purchasing habits, this is probably going to tank the frequency and number of releases I buy. It seems like everything but Torchwood has abandoned single releases and I just can't afford it. Really good point. Also, personally I have no interest in all this 6b stuff, nor do I care about where the First Doctor and Dodo went after leaving the planet of The Savages. I can't imagine new fans, which BF claim to be wanting to get onboard, do either. Well, so much for cutting back on the number of ranges and streamlining things for new listeners...
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Post by fitzoliverj on May 25, 2020 19:54:26 GMT
One thought though. The article says "what happened to the Second Doctor after War Games" not a direct mention of series 6B. What if they go the route of the Doctor being forced to work for the CIA a while as extra punishment before the forced regenteration into 3. It's been a while, but I don't think we saw the regeneration until the next episode. This could give 2 a whole new era and new companions without having to confirm or deny 6B. Er, isn't that pretty much the definition of Season 6b anyway? I'm going to assume (wrongly no doubt) David Richardson was hinting at a brand new 2nd Doctor boxset range covering Season 6b perhaps with a recast and new companions. I have certainly taken David's remarks to mean, or at least strongly imply, that we have a recast 2nd Doctor coming up. I'm sure I recall relatively recently in a prodcast Nick Briggs denying any early Doctor recast plans, but perhaps that was in reference to the third Doctor. I certainly can't see any need for BF to replace Fraser Hines (or Peter Purves as 1, for that matter). I *definitely* can't see any need to replace him as part of changes to the Main Range!
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Post by tuigirl on May 25, 2020 19:57:02 GMT
One thing which isn't clear to me is exactly what format these boxsets will take, are we going to get a series 2x2 hour standalone stories like the 1DA's or a series of 4x4 hour arc heavy Titled boxsets akin to Dark Eyes, Ravenous etc...because depending on the approach I think that's going to effect just how accessible this will be for new listeners (and how supportive long term listeners will be) To be frank one of the reasons I like BF is nostalgia...which I'm sure goes for many of the monthly range subscribers as well... I'm not sure I'd enjoy say, the likes of the 6th Doctor headlining a modern style 16 part universe ending epic in an attempt to bring in new listeners, at the expense of alienating the old ones.
I also feel that this could lessen the character of the 8th Doctor's range, I kinda liked that only McGann had the arc driven boxsets, it felt like a midway point between Classic/New who style storytelling and gave the range its own indentity and importance. Are you saying that Sixie is not attractive? I would definitely love an epic Doom Coalition style Sixie adventure, thank you very much.
Joke aside, I basically agree to the things you have mentioned in this thread, you basically share my exact same thoughts.
Apart from the "this could lessen the character of the 8th Doctor's range, I kinda liked that only McGann had the arc driven boxsets, it felt like a midway point between Classic/New who style storytelling and gave the range its own indentity and importance." I think it could work as well for the others. And Sixie is important too, you know.
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Post by polly on May 25, 2020 19:59:02 GMT
Really good point. Also, personally I have no interest in all this 6b stuff, nor do I care about where the First Doctor and Dodo went after leaving the planet of The Savages. I can't imagine new fans, which BF claim to be wanting to get onboard, do either. Yeah, I also have to admit that neither ideas enthuse me. At all.
So not really on board with that.
You'd think when announcing something like this, they'd have put together a handful of their best, most exciting ideas to entice us all and make the bitter medicine more palatable. Being Big Finish, it's possible David Richardson just listed whatever came to mind first, but if that is they best they've got, it's not all that promising.
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Post by tuigirl on May 25, 2020 20:00:27 GMT
Yeah, I also have to admit that neither ideas enthuse me. At all.
So not really on board with that.
You'd think when announcing something like this, they'd have put together a handful of their best, most exciting ideas to entice us all and make the bitter medicine more palatable. Being Big Finish, it's possible David Richardson just listed whatever came to mind first, but if that is they best they've got, it's not all that promising. Agreed.
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Post by fitzoliverj on May 25, 2020 20:00:54 GMT
The thing is, if it's just to provide flexibility to storytelling there's no need to change things so much. If they want a fifth Doctor boxset, have him drop out of the main range for a trilogy and have another Doctor sub for him. If the first and second Doctors turned up in the main range in the temporary absence of a box-set starring Six it could solve the problems regarding the lower sales of the Earl Adventures.
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,079
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Post by mbt66 on May 25, 2020 20:06:23 GMT
What a very odd announcement.
The Monthly Adventures finish in March 2021 and their replacement doesn’t happen until January 2020. Why the gap?
Lots of new potential story ideas, but most have nothing to do with the Monthly range Doctors. Why mention these in passing now?
I like the idea of being able to follow a specific Doctor, but they could have done that with the old format if they had offered a three story subscription.
As always time will tell, but it would have been a lot more helpful and understandable if they had actually announced what would be replacing the main range so that everyone could see what it would look like and get an idea regarding the structure.
Less face it they have had long enough to get all their ducks in a row...but this all seems (sorry) quackers!
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Post by polly on May 25, 2020 20:07:43 GMT
The thing is, if it's just to provide flexibility to storytelling there's no need to change things so much. If they want a fifth Doctor boxset, have him drop out of the main range for a trilogy and have another Doctor sub for him. If the first and second Doctors turned up in the main range in the temporary absence of a box-set starring Six it could solve the problems regarding the lower sales of the Earl Adventures. I kind of like that idea. It's sort of like the Locum Doctors trilogy and the odd "wildcard" release could have acted as a showcase for a non-Main Range Doctor. I guess we'll never know.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,849
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Post by aztec on May 25, 2020 20:08:36 GMT
One thing which isn't clear to me is exactly what format these boxsets will take, are we going to get a series 2x2 hour standalone stories like the 1DA's or a series of 4x4 hour arc heavy Titled boxsets akin to Dark Eyes, Ravenous etc...because depending on the approach I think that's going to effect just how accessible this will be for new listeners (and how supportive long term listeners will be) To be frank one of the reasons I like BF is nostalgia...which I'm sure goes for many of the monthly range subscribers as well... I'm not sure I'd enjoy say, the likes of the 6th Doctor headlining a modern style 16 part universe ending epic in an attempt to bring in new listeners, at the expense of alienating the old ones.
I also feel that this could lessen the character of the 8th Doctor's range, I kinda liked that only McGann had the arc driven boxsets, it felt like a midway point between Classic/New who style storytelling and gave the range its own indentity and importance. Are you saying that Sixie is not attractive? I would definitely love an epic Doom Coalition style Sixie adventure, thank you very much.
Joke aside, I basically agree to the things you have mentioned in this thread, you basically share my exact same thoughts.
Apart from the "this could lessen the character of the 8th Doctor's range, I kinda liked that only McGann had the arc driven boxsets, it felt like a midway point between Classic/New who style storytelling and gave the range its own indentity and importance." I think it could work as well for the others. And Sixie is important too, you know. I like Sixie too just feel that the monthly range format works so well for the 5th-7th Doctors I'm not sure if I like the idea of them changing it, I suppose one way of looking at it is the monthly range stories I view as an extension of Classic Who seasons, the McGann boxsets I view as the more modern style TV seasons we never got with 8, crowbarring every Doctor into epic boxsets just lessens their impact for me.
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