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Post by agentten on May 25, 2020 22:18:24 GMT
Not surprising news since we all knew a change was coming. I'm always open to anything that presents new storytelling possibilities. Big Finish are fantastic at keeping things fresh even after 20 years of stories, but adding new tools to the tool box is always welcome.
It seemed, from the way the article reads, that this change is not just going to affect the monthly range, but may signal a new approach to releases across the board. I wonder if we might see other ranges such as the Early Adventures shifting to a different release model in the future, too.
I suppose the main thing I'm interested in learning about now is what the subscriptions will look like. Will there be Doctor based subscriptions that let you pre-order multiple box sets for a particular Doctor? I follow some Doctors more obsessively than others and I'd certainly appreciate that kind of option.
Lastly, I wonder if there's anything special afoot for release #275. Perhaps a multi-Doctor story with Five, Six, and Seven to bookend the range?
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Post by idle453 on May 25, 2020 22:23:20 GMT
One thought though. The article says "what happened to the Second Doctor after War Games" not a direct mention of series 6B. What if they go the route of the Doctor being forced to work for the CIA a while as extra punishment before the forced regenteration into 3. It's been a while, but I don't think we saw the regeneration until the next episode. This could give 2 a whole new era and new companions without having to confirm or deny 6B. Er, isn't that pretty much the definition of Season 6b anyway?
I always thought the trouble people had with 6B was Jamie (and was it Victoria) traveling with the Doctor again. If not, then I apologize. The only 6B I've seen/heard/read is The two Doctors.
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Post by constonks on May 25, 2020 22:31:02 GMT
Well, it was inevitable, I guess. I would like to see some big multi-box Doom Coalition-style arcs for the other Doctors, as folks are speculating, so that could be a nice side effect! And it sounds like they have a lot of interesting ideas planned out, although the mention of the Seventh Doctor's Last Day just had to come the same day I was intending to post a story about the Seventh Doctor's last day, haha! Now I have to email them and figure out how to get the Subscriber benefits for #274 & 275 when I've subscribed up to #273...
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Post by mark687 on May 25, 2020 22:32:05 GMT
Regards
mark687
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Post by masterdoctor on May 25, 2020 22:32:50 GMT
Incredibly well said. As much as I appreciate some may not like this change , there is a good chance(especially when Big Finish has said their biggest and best selling releases are box sets) that displeasure with the change may well be a vocal minority. This decision has been made because Big Finish sees it in their best interest, from a business and likely a creative stand point. This hasn’t been made to upset people, but to make it easier for new people to join the ranks of those who already love their stories.Bottom line is that this is very likely going to be successful for Big Finish, and I am glad. Box sets such as Wicked Sisters or the Stranded sets are much more accessible because they don’t have giant numbers attached to them like the Main Range does. It psychologically allows for people not to face such a sizeable backlog in one range, but explore sets of two to four releases/stories, which is much easier to market and sell to people who pick and choose. It sucks that people might be priced out of future releases, or may not like the box set format, but many do, including Big Finish. So why shouldn’t they play to their potentially most fruitful demographic. I would think that for the long range health of the company the idea of pricing their customers out of their product would be a horrible idea. I would think that one of the good things about selling product in multiple formats is multiple price points, meaning a larger customer base. But if everything is going to boxsets that limits the different products and therefore limits price variability. The product is niche enough already, I don't think pricing out a good portion of the established base of customers is a healthy business plan. (Not that I am a business major or anything. Just seems logical.) And honestly, I still don't understand how this makes it easier for new folks. When I was a newbie I was extremely overwhelmed by the amount of different ranges, not necessarily how many MR titles there were. There were so many individual products! I stuck with Eight and then stayed with the Main Range only for a while because it was consistent and the early releases were cheap. I didn't branch out to spin offs until I felt comfortable with the company. I can't imagine a new fan opening up a Doctor's Range and seeing multiple boxsets! What do you start with? I guess I wasn’t clear enough in that part of my post. So apologies on that. What I was trying to get at is that from Big Finish’s sales figures, of which we can only guess at, indicates that this was the best move. If it didn’t they wouldn’t have done it. My guess is that there is a sizeable difference between how much they sell a product in the main range format compared to a release in the box set format. In regards to how this would make it easier, one thing the news article was clear about was that each Doctor would have their own individual range/collection page. This collates all of that Doctor’s releases as opposed to having them be found in four or five different ranges. And that is much easier to look and explore than having to look throughout the entire catalog. This is likely a question of streamlining many of the different ranges(such as the Monthly Range, the Early Adventures, Companion Chronicles and already existing ranges with a Doctor in it) into one range. So then my question would be that if this was the case, would this not mimic how the monthly range currently appears, just now split up to each Doctor.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 25, 2020 22:34:22 GMT
From a price point of view, I sweated out my yearly Main Range subs in a way I don't for the box sets. So I don't know that the pricing people out argument resonates to me. I personally think box sets are easier on my wallet.
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Post by masterdoctor on May 25, 2020 22:39:31 GMT
From a price point of view, I sweated out my yearly Main Range subs in a way I don't for the box sets. So I don't know that the pricing people out argument resonates to me. I personally think box sets are easier on my wallet. Exactly. Box sets workout to about $5 per hour, with the odd exception. The monthly range is about $6.50 an hour. To be able to get the same pricing, you would have to buy 12 releases at once.
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Post by coffeeaddict on May 25, 2020 22:54:57 GMT
I've always had trouble getting my head around people finding it daunting to know where to jump on. When I started collecting, my thought was - "excellent, there are options" and I based my choices on the story synopsis.
Earlier this year I moved offices at work and one of the girls who was a few doors down noticed I was a DW fan, so we started talking and I showed her the BF site. She had never watched the classic series and was excited to have new Doctors to explore. She started with some of the free stories and never expressed any concern over there being too many releases or where a good jumping on point would be.
I'm not trying to belittle other people's experience, just stating that to me it seems more of a benefit. And besides - we are talking about a time traveler, does doing things in order really mean anything?? It isn't like we all started watching the show with Hartnell.
One point I do want to pick up on, a few have commented on the lengthy story arcs in the box sets. I am also not overly found of this - it can work, but the planning and plotting needs to be done a lot better than what we've seen so far. Some of them likely could have been far better had they been limited to two or three sets rather than four. Then there is the example of Dark Eyes which should have never been expanded past the first set.
One thing I don't think anyone has brought up (unless it was done while I was typing this) are the subscriber short trips - will those be retired, attached to subscriptions under a new model or absorbed into the Short Trips range somehow.
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Post by Digi on May 25, 2020 23:06:28 GMT
I've always had trouble getting my head around people finding it daunting to know where to jump on. When I started collecting, my thought was - "excellent, there are options" and I based my choices on the story synopsis. Earlier this year I moved offices at work and one of the girls who was a few doors down noticed I was a DW fan, so we started talking and I showed her the BF site. She had never watched the classic series and was excited to have new Doctors to explore. She started with some of the free stories and never expressed any concern over there being too many releases or where a good jumping on point would be. I'm not trying to belittle other people's experience, just stating that to me it seems more of a benefit. And besides - we are talking about a time traveler, does doing things in order really mean anything?? It isn't like we all started watching the show with Hartnell. One point I do want to pick up on, a few have commented on the lengthy story arcs in the box sets. I am also not overly found of this - it can work, but the planning and plotting needs to be done a lot better than what we've seen so far. Some of them likely could have been far better had they been limited to two or three sets rather than four. Then there is the example of Dark Eyes which should have never been expanded past the first set. One thing I don't think anyone has brought up (unless it was done while I was typing this) are the subscriber short trips - will those be retired, attached to subscriptions under a new model or absorbed into the Short Trips range somehow. I am in complete and total disagreement
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Post by xlozdob on May 25, 2020 23:08:42 GMT
Personally, I understand where they're coming from when they say things like the monthly range can be a bit daunting or overwhelming for newcomers. When I started buying BF it was the Eighth Doctor boxsets that made take the plunge - I wouldn't even have known where to start with the MR. Sometime later I decided to get the Eighth Doctor MRs because those were the more straightforward of the lot. I have since listened to a few of the Evelyn ones and I've bought some more of the other Doctors in sales but only listened to a few of them. The problem with the MR outside of the Eighth Doctor is that it's hard to follow for a newcomer (or even a 7-year veteran like me) or you have to make a conscious effort to pick and choose to follow a particular storyline (like 7, Ace and Hex or 6, Flip and Constance), and there aren't even bundles or subscriptions that properly collate these together. The trilogies were a good first step when that happened, but having boxsets like 8 or 4 (although that range also jumps back and forth chronologically, tho I guess it's easier when they're divided into series) I think will benefit the way they can tell bigger stories, without it necessarily affecting the individual ones.
That's my two cents, anyway, fwiw.
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Post by coffeeaddict on May 25, 2020 23:13:10 GMT
I've always had trouble getting my head around people finding it daunting to know where to jump on. When I started collecting, my thought was - "excellent, there are options" and I based my choices on the story synopsis. Earlier this year I moved offices at work and one of the girls who was a few doors down noticed I was a DW fan, so we started talking and I showed her the BF site. She had never watched the classic series and was excited to have new Doctors to explore. She started with some of the free stories and never expressed any concern over there being too many releases or where a good jumping on point would be. I'm not trying to belittle other people's experience, just stating that to me it seems more of a benefit. And besides - we are talking about a time traveler, does doing things in order really mean anything?? It isn't like we all started watching the show with Hartnell. One point I do want to pick up on, a few have commented on the lengthy story arcs in the box sets. I am also not overly found of this - it can work, but the planning and plotting needs to be done a lot better than what we've seen so far. Some of them likely could have been far better had they been limited to two or three sets rather than four. Then there is the example of Dark Eyes which should have never been expanded past the first set. One thing I don't think anyone has brought up (unless it was done while I was typing this) are the subscriber short trips - will those be retired, attached to subscriptions under a new model or absorbed into the Short Trips range somehow. I am in complete and total disagreement You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is..
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Post by xlozdob on May 25, 2020 23:14:39 GMT
I've always had trouble getting my head around people finding it daunting to know where to jump on. When I started collecting, my thought was - "excellent, there are options" and I based my choices on the story synopsis. Earlier this year I moved offices at work and one of the girls who was a few doors down noticed I was a DW fan, so we started talking and I showed her the BF site. She had never watched the classic series and was excited to have new Doctors to explore. She started with some of the free stories and never expressed any concern over there being too many releases or where a good jumping on point would be. I'm not trying to belittle other people's experience, just stating that to me it seems more of a benefit. And besides - we are talking about a time traveler, does doing things in order really mean anything?? It isn't like we all started watching the show with Hartnell. I mean, yeah, that's the magic of Doctor Who, you can hop on at any given point and you should be able to enjoy the adventure. I also got Trial of the Valeyard and The Maltese Penguin when I got my first Doom Coalition. But being able to follow certain character's development is also greatly rewarding as a listener. You could, arguably, listen to Scherzo without having heard any of the Eight/Charley audios before, but if you start with Storm Warning it hits way harder.
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Post by muckypup on May 25, 2020 23:32:22 GMT
ok can I rant.….. its not the fact the monthly range is ending, I knew that and had accepted it, but think it would be much better diversifying it to include other ranges..... its not the fact that its turning into boxes (which I hate but can live with it)
its the fact that they only bang on about new customers, if these new customers were serious about getting into big finish they would have taken the time to research where to start...……its not bloody difficult you make massive changes which is not popular with most (not all), for what a few hundred to try a few before giving up
what's wrong with putting together a starter pack for new listeners, with all the relevant info. the main range titles will still be as confusing as ever for the poor troubled newbies
it seems madness...……
but on the positive side will mean I know longer have to buy anymore 7th doctor titles, in fact I not sure I will bother at all, its been difficult enough trying to keep up with new release announcements before with there strange marketing strategy with out trying to add in a whole bunch more.
my only hope is they have some kind of subscription service for all these boxes like the main range to keep some sanity to the insanity
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 25, 2020 23:36:48 GMT
I don’t about anyone else but I have always found buying to be pretty easy.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 26, 2020 0:28:29 GMT
I also wonder if a revamp in 2022 is a clue that perhaps a licence extension is on the horizon.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 26, 2020 1:25:30 GMT
I personally have a few questions about this change.. Does this mean the boxsets for 5/6/7 will be 2-2cd stories? Will there still be 12 individual stories per calendar year? What will the numbering be after #275, if any. Does this mean less individual covers?
I am sure I probably missed this info in the press release, so much info to absorb and read-between-the-lines.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2020 2:21:45 GMT
I personally have a few questions about this change.. Does this mean the boxsets for 5/6/7 will be 2-2cd stories? Will there still be 12 individual stories per calendar year? What will the numbering be after #275, if any. Does this mean less individual covers? I am sure I probably missed this info in the press release, so much info to absorb and read-between-the-lines. They're good questions. I've a feeling that a lot of the formatting mainstays of the Monthly Adventures will carry over as a baseline. Something to hitch the new innovations to as they expand in their own directions. I wouldn't mind individual covers. I rather like them as a tangible way of differentiating adventures and I'd miss the opportunity to gaze on something like Cry of the Vultriss. As for the numbering, I suppose the easiest way would be to break them up like the 4DAs and 8DAs. Start off with "5DA-001", "6DA-001" and "7DA-001", and go from there. It's a bit of an un-shock this. Not the surprise that it's happening, but that it's happening comparatively so soon. Makes sense, though. This feels like the next logical step after grouping the release schedule into trilogies and giving each Doctor their own producer. It's not really ending, so much as... *blink* *blink* well, regenerating. New face, similar principles. It does sound as though we're maybe not getting a release a month as before, to give them a bit more time to experiment with the format. I mean, we've never had a six-parter for Sixie before this point, but now... Now, there's a potential for it. I'm excited to see what the final story, The TBC of Releases #275, will be. Given its longevity, the Main Range doesn't strike me as one that will go gentle into that good night. I'll miss it, my first stories at BF came from here, but the future looks very promising.
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Post by barnabaslives on May 26, 2020 2:59:08 GMT
I don't think I am terribly happy about this, and half of that must be that I still don't understand why it's happening.
I've always had trouble with the idea that the Main Range having a lot of releases is scaring people away. For some of us, that's very attractive - it means we have something that's going to be keep us entertained for a good long while, and ironically now, if the numbers are up into the hundreds, it makes the range seem like something you can depend on in the future.
If someone is uncertain, though, I don't understand why they'd want to take a risk at box set price. If you're not sure, why not start with the releases that have been deeply discounted and see if you like them? That's what sold me on DW ranges, not box set prices.
If we're worried about performers retiring and leaving gaps in the Monthly Range, I don't why the answer to that isn't the same as for worrying about Tom Baker retiring.
I can look at the Fourth Doctor model and see that boxing up the stories is more economical, but I do like having things to look forward to in the short term, as in having another coming out next month, rather than getting a box set and saying there'll be another one to look forward to next year. That's been helping a lot to deal with the gaps between seasons in the TV series as well.
I also kind of don't like to have to manage that. I get a box set and don't want to go through it in a day and then have to wait until the next one to hear more, so I try to save some of the stories and listen to one each month or so, but it's hard to schedule that and if I get behind, I start to notice having spent money on stories I may not hear for months, at the very same time I'm not sure if I'll be able to afford things that I will want to hear at least some of right way.
For me it's much nicer if the release schedule does the scheduling so I can just try to listen to whatever's new when it comes out rather than trying to keep a mental spreadsheet of what I have and haven't heard yet, across all ranges. Again, I think I realize the possible economics of it, but it's much nicer to have one or two ranges where I don't have that problem.
I do have issues with the formatting as well, I've gotten quite conditioned by hearing so many two hour stories and hearing them again. I can hear a brilliant one hour story and still feel shortchanged just because it was only an hour. There are a number of very good Fourth Doctor Adventures that seem lackluster just because of that. The Monthly Range and Early Adventures have been priceless for keeping up the two hour format.
Thing is nothing so far really tells me what I can look forward to, and so far the specifics have referred to Doctors that have had nothing to do with the Monthly Range. The news piece makes it sound like there are 12 Doctors for 12 months of the year, which sounds like a year's gap before the next time we hear from them again, as opposed to the rotation in the Monthly Range meaning six or eight at most.
Also, the news about recasts isn't all that reassuring for me most of the time. I hate to say this, but I was not impressed with the trailer of the Sarah Jane recast. As much as I would like to, I couldn't believe for one second it was SJ, and am still not sure some of the recasts are worth it if they're likely to see relatively little usage. Somehow I don't see that ever turning into the season of 4DAs with Sarah that might have happened. I admit I thought the recasting of Katarina was quite excellent, but even that most likely has limited utility.
I think I'd rather hear more talk about making the most of who we do still have, than who's going to replace them.
I think all that puts me still in the "if it's not broke, don't fix it" camp. I'd at least have to know more about what I'm looking forward to here to know if I really am looking forward to it - and yes, I do have the fear that everything could turn out like the Eight Doctor box sets. To be honest, I do agree that they meander all over the place. After 15 box sets, I've gotten used to that as the way things work with the Eight Doctor, but I'm really not sure I'd like to see the same sort of thing with other Doctors. If that's not going to happen, I'd like to hear it.
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Post by polly on May 26, 2020 3:27:38 GMT
I'll throw in my last few pennies on the topic for now. Obviously, new customers and new fans are a good thing. However, with Big Finish specifically, they're already an extremely niche product and if you ask me they always will be. I don't think box sets will change that. If you're into Big Finish you have to be a pretty big nerd or know somebody who's a pretty big nerd. I get the feeling they could run the risk of chasing a new audience that may never materialize long-term at the cost of changes the existing customers may not like.
And what's the price point even going to be? How long will the box sets be? The current going rate is about $30 for 4 hours, which is only 2 Main Range releases. If it's going to be a replacement for the trilogy system, then what, are we going to tack on another couple discs and be charged $40-45 a shot? For the sake of argument, let's stick with 30 for now.
Of course, not every customer is going to be exactly like me, but my thought process on the box sets is this: $12.99 is a lot more appealing than $30. Yes, the boxes work out cheaper per hour than the singles but I don't buy swathes of releases years in advance. So the up-front outlay per transaction sticks in my craw. The Main Range price point where it was a nice balance between getting a discount for buying bulk but the single option didn't feel like a big ask either.
And it's not just other Big Finish products that are my options. For the $35 I could spend on Ravenous 1, if I'm a savvy shopper, I could buy like 30 new tracks on iTunes, two or three audiobooks, two or three BluRay movies, a (budget) video game, several comic books, a couple novels, or a TV box set. Big Finish does not look that attractive in that light, and I think the casual consumer will have the same considerations. Depends on how highly you prioritize BF, I suppose.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that we won't be going from $12.99 every month to $30-35 every 3 months. It'll be $30 every month with the frequency Big Finish churns out content currently. I'm not angry exactly, and I wish Big Finish success, but I have to make the decision that suit me, and that's a big jump. So more than likely I will not buy full price and wait on sales where they're cut down to nothing and the entire exercise ends up pointless when instead they could have had me spending $12.99 regularly which would work out to more money off me long term.
Maybe I'm just a cheapskate compared to the rest of you, but I can see this leading to the break point for me as a regular customer. The increasing prevalence of recasts is already putting ranges on the no-fly zone for me (and yes, I know Big Finish has no choice if they want to future proof), and the box set thing doesn't help. If there are enough people like me, will they see a gain per transaction but less of them? I don't know.
Sorry for the disorganized ramble, I've just been mulling it over throughout the day.
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Post by Jeedai on May 26, 2020 3:51:22 GMT
For me, this is good news, if only due to my specific buying/listening patterns.
Spinoffs aside, the majority of Doctor audios I listen to come in box set format. With the exception of nabbing anything Sixie and the occasional event trilogy (Locum Doctors, The Two Masters, the recent trilogy of Seven Vs Renegade Time Lords...) from the Monthly Range. I was not and wont be able to take advantage of the Monthly Range subscription price, because I'm just gonna get all of it. So, for me, continuing to keep up with Sixie is going to get cheaper.
I'm not sure where all the 4DA and 8DA set comparisons are coming from, when there's the 1DA and 3DA sets to use as a guide to how BF can maintain a classic feel: Two four-part stories that need not be connected to one another. Hopefully, they can maintain a level of output similar to the 4DAs, though. That'd still round out to a four-parter per month across these three Doctors.
Here's hoping too that #275 is going to be something huge and splashy and series-capping that I'll desperately want to have on top of whatever Sixie stories will be out in 2021.
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