|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 7, 2020 9:34:24 GMT
I've spoken out against him on Twitter for his comments/views, but this is somewhat decent of Dreyfus, especially since Elliot seems nice and doesn't deserve any sort of abuse in response to that article that Lineham tweeted. Well, as others have said, deeds not words Dreyfus. Prove your growth.
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jun 13, 2020 14:57:31 GMT
Big Finish’s reasons for staying quiet- Doctor Who Official (@bbcdoctorwho) Tweeted: t.co/iHUWbr86w2
|
|
|
Post by masterdoctor on Jun 13, 2020 14:59:45 GMT
Big Finish’s reasons for staying quiet- Doctor Who Official (@bbcdoctorwho) Tweeted: t.co/iHUWbr86w2 Well hopefully this means Big Finish can comment publicly on the matter now that the show itself has. If the case for them not Posting about it was because they show/BBC hadn’t, now is the time to put money where their mouth is as it were.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 16:02:40 GMT
I'd rather Big Finish put their money where their mouth is by employing more BAME people and we got to see some diversity within Big Finish, rather than just putting out trendy statements that don't mean much from a company run by a bunch of white people. Where are the BAME Script Editors, Directors, Producers? Anyone can type up a statement saying we support the black community, not every company employs or promotes enough of them though. In 2020 I think Big Finish should be a bit more diverse than it actually is.
Deeds not words!
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jun 13, 2020 16:30:51 GMT
I'd rather Big Finish put their money where their mouth is by employing more BAME people and we got to see some diversity within Big Finish, rather than just putting out trendy statements that don't mean much from a company run by a bunch of white people. Where are the BAME Script Editors, Directors, Producers? Anyone can type up a statement saying we support the black community, not every company employs or promotes enough of them though. In 2020 I think Big Finish should be a bit more diverse than it actually is. Deeds not words! I agree in intent, but I'd also like it if we stopped using the reductive term BAME which lumps everyone together who isn't white.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 16:37:10 GMT
I'd rather Big Finish put their money where their mouth is by employing more BAME people and we got to see some diversity within Big Finish, rather than just putting out trendy statements that don't mean much from a company run by a bunch of white people. Where are the BAME Script Editors, Directors, Producers? Anyone can type up a statement saying we support the black community, not every company employs or promotes enough of them though. In 2020 I think Big Finish should be a bit more diverse than it actually is. Deeds not words! Respect the individual and cut out the tribalism we are seeing making an unwelcome comeback on the streets. Race should not be politicised. I hoped we had put such things behind us.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Jun 13, 2020 16:48:03 GMT
I'd rather Big Finish put their money where their mouth is by employing more BAME people and we got to see some diversity within Big Finish, rather than just putting out trendy statements that don't mean much from a company run by a bunch of white people. Where are the BAME Script Editors, Directors, Producers? Anyone can type up a statement saying we support the black community, not every company employs or promotes enough of them though. In 2020 I think Big Finish should be a bit more diverse than it actually is. Deeds not words! I agree in intent, but I'd also like it if we stopped using the reductive term BAME which lumps everyone together who isn't white. Agreed. During the last couple of weeks, there has been a push to delete the term "race" from the German Grundgesetz (the constitution). It says there that "No one should be discriminated against because of their race, gender, religion, political view, language or origin". Reason- there are no "races". There are only "people".
|
|
|
Post by masterdoctor on Jun 13, 2020 17:44:30 GMT
I'd rather Big Finish put their money where their mouth is by employing more BAME people and we got to see some diversity within Big Finish, rather than just putting out trendy statements that don't mean much from a company run by a bunch of white people. Where are the BAME Script Editors, Directors, Producers? Anyone can type up a statement saying we support the black community, not every company employs or promotes enough of them though. In 2020 I think Big Finish should be a bit more diverse than it actually is. Deeds not words! Of course I agree with this intent. However, Big Finish have shown continual growth in how they're diversifying their creative team. Over the last few years, we are getting new writers galore, including an increase in female talent. Big Finish also record farther in advance for a bunch of ongoing projects than we know of, so just as a few years ago, we were lamenting a lack of female voices on the team, we now have an incredible increase with writers such as Sarah Grochala, Kate Thorman, Lisa McMullin and many ranges are produced by Emma Haigh. So until we see Big Finish's output stop the trend of increasing and diversifying their creative team, we have very little to comment on. To add on to that, speaking as a child of mixed race heritage, and many of my family being of a minority, there is a place for both words and deeds. Deeds are long-term actions that continue to change and adapt. Words are recognition of the problem in the moment and a way to show that one is listening. I can't assume to know your heritage, but words of kindness, understanding and solidarity are much appreciated by me and the people I know who are affected by them, because for many years, we were never granted even that.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,063
|
Post by dorney on Jun 13, 2020 22:42:01 GMT
Well hopefully this means Big Finish can comment publicly on the matter now that the show itself has. If the case for them not Posting about it was because they show/BBC hadn’t, now is the time to put money where their mouth is as it were. Genuinely not sure, but I suspect not - I think Johnhurtdoctor might be trying to suggest the original tweet is disingenuous, but ultimately TV Doctor Who isn’t licensed (Doctor Who can’t lose its own licence), and therefore has a lot more freedom than BF does. This is rather comparing apples and oranges. As I’ve said before, if you think ‘but surely BF should do x or y, it’s easy/a missed opportunity’ etc, invariably the answer is ‘it’s not actually quite as easy as it appears’.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,063
|
Post by dorney on Jun 13, 2020 22:52:37 GMT
I'd rather Big Finish put their money where their mouth is by employing more BAME people and we got to see some diversity within Big Finish, rather than just putting out trendy statements that don't mean much from a company run by a bunch of white people. Where are the BAME Script Editors, Directors, Producers? Anyone can type up a statement saying we support the black community, not every company employs or promotes enough of them though. In 2020 I think Big Finish should be a bit more diverse than it actually is. Deeds not words! I’ve talked about this on Twitter as well, but at the moment I think we’re suffering from being a small fish in a pond of an industry that’s suddenly realised it needs to improve its diversity, meaning we’re competing against institutions with more resources and deeper pockets. A few years back I was seeking recommendations for Female and BAME writers. Practically all the women I was recommended are now working regularly for BF (Gemma Langford, Sarah Grochala among the more pertinent names). Whereas I got recommended two BAME writers - one of whom is now writing Loki, and the other was announced as writing Demons of the Punjab within about a week of me being given his name. Simply put, good BAME writers are extremely busy! And equally us wanting to work with someone doesn’t mean they’ll want to work with us. There are a few we’ve been working with on the way in, so fingers crossed there’ll be more obvious improvement soon. I think that’s been visibly true on the gender side, very hopeful it’ll be true on the BAME side soon too.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,063
|
Post by dorney on Jun 13, 2020 22:54:38 GMT
I'd rather Big Finish put their money where their mouth is by employing more BAME people and we got to see some diversity within Big Finish, rather than just putting out trendy statements that don't mean much from a company run by a bunch of white people. Where are the BAME Script Editors, Directors, Producers? Anyone can type up a statement saying we support the black community, not every company employs or promotes enough of them though. In 2020 I think Big Finish should be a bit more diverse than it actually is. Deeds not words! I agree in intent, but I'd also like it if we stopped using the reductive term BAME which lumps everyone together who isn't white. Which is good in principal, but in practical terms does make discussing the diversity issues at stake rather tough.
|
|
|
Post by masterdoctor on Jun 13, 2020 22:59:41 GMT
Well hopefully this means Big Finish can comment publicly on the matter now that the show itself has. If the case for them not Posting about it was because they show/BBC hadn’t, now is the time to put money where their mouth is as it were. Genuinely not sure, but I suspect not - I think Johnhurtdoctor might be trying to suggest the original tweet is disingenuous, but ultimately TV Doctor Who isn’t licensed (Doctor Who can’t lose its own licence), and therefore has a lot more freedom than BF does. This is rather comparing apples and oranges. As I’ve said before, if you think ‘but surely BF should do x or y, it’s easy/a missed opportunity’ etc, invariably the answer is ‘it’s not actually quite as easy as it appears’. Very fair, and I know that if Big Finish don’t comment, it isn’t done because they don’t want to. Thank you for the responses.
|
|
|
Post by masterdoctor on Jun 13, 2020 23:01:51 GMT
I'd rather Big Finish put their money where their mouth is by employing more BAME people and we got to see some diversity within Big Finish, rather than just putting out trendy statements that don't mean much from a company run by a bunch of white people. Where are the BAME Script Editors, Directors, Producers? Anyone can type up a statement saying we support the black community, not every company employs or promotes enough of them though. In 2020 I think Big Finish should be a bit more diverse than it actually is. Deeds not words! I’ve talked about this on Twitter as well, but at the moment I think we’re suffering from being a small fish in a pond of an industry that’s suddenly realised it needs to improve its diversity, meaning we’re competing against institutions with more resources and deeper pockets. A few years back I was seeking recommendations for Female and BAME writers. Practically all the women I was recommended are now working regularly for BF (Gemma Langford, Sarah Grochala among the more pertinent names). Whereas I got recommended two BAME writers - one of whom is now writing Loki, and the other was announced as writing Demons of the Punjab within about a week of me being given his name. Simply put, good BAME writers are extremely busy! And equally us wanting to work with someone doesn’t mean they’ll want to work with us. There are a few we’ve been working with on the way in, so fingers crossed there’ll be more obvious improvement soon. I think that’s been visibly true on the gender side, very hopeful it’ll be true on the BAME side soon too. Thank you for putting this so well, which as such a great writer would. I can’t wait for all the new voices you bring in, as I know you guys do all that you do with genuine care and love.
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jun 14, 2020 8:40:35 GMT
I agree in intent, but I'd also like it if we stopped using the reductive term BAME which lumps everyone together who isn't white. Which is good in principal, but in practical terms does make discussing the diversity issues at stake rather tough. True. My post was based on discussions I've had recently with friends who find the term rather insulting.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,063
|
Post by dorney on Jun 14, 2020 9:08:08 GMT
Which is good in principal, but in practical terms does make discussing the diversity issues at stake rather tough. True. My post was based on discussions I've had recently with friends who find the term rather insulting. Is there an alternative? Sincere question. I did ask after ‘BAME writers’ on Twitter recently, and in that context (trying to diversify my reading list and the list of writers I might able to work with) it seemed appropriate. But I’m always willing to be educated on these things.
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jun 14, 2020 10:17:11 GMT
True. My post was based on discussions I've had recently with friends who find the term rather insulting. Is there an alternative? Sincere question. I did ask after ‘BAME writers’ on Twitter recently, and in that context (trying to diversify my reading list and the list of writers I might able to work with) it seemed appropriate. But I’m always willing to be educated on these things. Now that's the difficult question. The generally feeling was that it may cause employers to say, for example we have our Afro-caribbean employee so we've filled our BAME quota. The conversation was prompted by someone sharing a tweet by the director Amma Asante who was questioning the term.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,063
|
Post by dorney on Jun 14, 2020 10:27:09 GMT
Is there an alternative? Sincere question. I did ask after ‘BAME writers’ on Twitter recently, and in that context (trying to diversify my reading list and the list of writers I might able to work with) it seemed appropriate. But I’m always willing to be educated on these things. Now that's the difficult question. The generally feeling was that it may cause employees to say, for example we have our Afro-caribbean employee so we've filled our BAME quota. The conversation was prompted by someone sharing a tweet by the director Amma Asante who was questioning the term. Thanks. That’s useful. I suppose that does suggest it’s a ‘context is everything’ case. So in terms of looking for people, it makes sense to use BAME, because that basically maximises who you’re including. But in terms of looking at you have, it isn’t entirely helpful, because the ideal is to have as wide a range as possible.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,063
|
Post by dorney on Jun 14, 2020 10:36:52 GMT
That Amma Asante tweet led me to this article: www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-43831279?usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D&_js_v=0.1#aoh=15916418050823&_ct=1591641820055&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24sIt’s quite interesting, and I think it does feel like it’s a question of where it’s used. I’m reminded of a Facebook discussion I had a few years ago, where someone was complaining about BF’s lack of female representation on the writing front, and I talked about all the women writers we had coming in. At which point she said ‘first step, don’t call them ‘women writers’. They’re just writers.’ Which is a perfectly correct thing, in principal - I don’t think of any of the regular writers in terms of their gender - but in that context (a discussion on the gender make up of a group of writers), it’s basically impossible to have a meaningful discussion without specifying the gender of the writer. Certainly, if we’re looking at increasing diversity, we can’t be colour blind or gender blind entirely. From working on this on the inside for a while it’s become clear that it isn’t just a question of throwing open the doors to everyone (I saw a writing comp recently that was very keen to state ‘if you include everyone, you exclude no-one’, which is a great idea but not one I think works in practice, though I’m willing to be proved wrong). You actively have to seek to make it happen. And one of the frustrating things about this is how the amount of effort put in doesn’t necessarily end an equal amount of results. But that won’t stop me trying.
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 14, 2020 11:36:35 GMT
That Amma Asante tweet led me to this article: www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-43831279?usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D&_js_v=0.1#aoh=15916418050823&_ct=1591641820055&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24sIt’s quite interesting, and I think it does feel like it’s a question of where it’s used. I’m reminded of a Facebook discussion I had a few years ago, where someone was complaining about BF’s lack of female representation on the writing front, and I talked about all the women writers we had coming in. At which point she said ‘first step, don’t call them ‘women writers’. They’re just writers.’ Which is a perfectly correct thing, in principal - I don’t think of any of the regular writers in terms of their gender - but in that context (a discussion on the gender make up of a group of writers), it’s basically impossible to have a meaningful discussion without specifying the gender of the writer. Certainly, if we’re looking at increasing diversity, we can’t be colour blind or gender blind entirely. From working on this on the inside for a while it’s become clear that it isn’t just a question of throwing open the doors to everyone (I saw a writing comp recently that was very keen to state ‘if you include everyone, you exclude no-one’, which is a great idea but not one I think works in practice, though I’m willing to be proved wrong). You actively have to seek to make it happen. And one of the frustrating things about this is how the amount of effort put in doesn’t necessarily end an equal amount of results. But that won’t stop me trying. I doubt I'm alone in saying that we're glad to hear this and that you're discussing this topic.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,063
|
Post by dorney on Jun 14, 2020 12:02:09 GMT
That Amma Asante tweet led me to this article: www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-43831279?usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D&_js_v=0.1#aoh=15916418050823&_ct=1591641820055&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24sIt’s quite interesting, and I think it does feel like it’s a question of where it’s used. I’m reminded of a Facebook discussion I had a few years ago, where someone was complaining about BF’s lack of female representation on the writing front, and I talked about all the women writers we had coming in. At which point she said ‘first step, don’t call them ‘women writers’. They’re just writers.’ Which is a perfectly correct thing, in principal - I don’t think of any of the regular writers in terms of their gender - but in that context (a discussion on the gender make up of a group of writers), it’s basically impossible to have a meaningful discussion without specifying the gender of the writer. Certainly, if we’re looking at increasing diversity, we can’t be colour blind or gender blind entirely. From working on this on the inside for a while it’s become clear that it isn’t just a question of throwing open the doors to everyone (I saw a writing comp recently that was very keen to state ‘if you include everyone, you exclude no-one’, which is a great idea but not one I think works in practice, though I’m willing to be proved wrong). You actively have to seek to make it happen. And one of the frustrating things about this is how the amount of effort put in doesn’t necessarily end an equal amount of results. But that won’t stop me trying. I doubt I'm alone in saying that we're glad to hear this and that you're discussing this topic. Not a worry. And it’s not just me, and not just these last few weeks.
|
|