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Post by mark687 on Jun 23, 2020 13:26:50 GMT
Oh well. I was hoping for The Lovecraft Invasion today. Given the current climate I imagine it'll be quietly released at the end of the month. Regards mark687
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Post by elkawho on Jun 23, 2020 13:28:25 GMT
Oh well. I was hoping for The Lovecraft Invasion today. Given the current climate I imagine it'll be quietly released at the end of the month. Regards mark687 Why? Is there controversy over this one?
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Post by jahawk2009 on Jun 23, 2020 13:31:25 GMT
Given the current climate I imagine it'll be quietly released at the end of the month. Regards mark687 Why? Is there controversy over this one? Lovecraft was an openly racist individual i think, so with the BLM stuff in the world being a focus right now, they may not wish to emphasise it
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Post by penguintim on Jun 23, 2020 13:32:40 GMT
Given the current climate I imagine it'll be quietly released at the end of the month. Regards mark687 Why? Is there controversy over this one? I think with the whole J.K. Rowlig debacle, the whole "great author turns out to be a huge bigot" theme mght be rather #topical (also, what jahawk says)
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Jun 23, 2020 15:50:20 GMT
Why? Is there controversy over this one? Lovecraft was an openly racist individual i think, so with the BLM stuff in the world being a focus right now, they may not wish to emphasise it I guess it depends - if the story has a very strong anti-racist message (and I would imagine it does) then I see no reason to keep quiet about it - BF would have nothing to be embarrassed/ashamed about.
If the story is a bit more equivocal, then . . . maybe best keep it low key.
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Post by tuigirl on Jun 23, 2020 17:18:10 GMT
Lovecraft was an openly racist individual i think, so with the BLM stuff in the world being a focus right now, they may not wish to emphasise it I guess it depends - if the story has a very strong anti-racist message (and I would imagine it does) then I see no reason to keep quiet about it - BF would have nothing to be embarrassed/ashamed about.
If the story is a bit more equivocal, then . . . maybe best keep it low key.
Could go either way, I agree... after all, we had the Doctor teaming up with Nazis last time...
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Post by tuigirl on Jun 23, 2020 17:18:33 GMT
Oh well. I was hoping for The Lovecraft Invasion today. Me too.
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Post by elkawho on Jun 23, 2020 20:02:25 GMT
Why? Is there controversy over this one? Lovecraft was an openly racist individual i think, so with the BLM stuff in the world being a focus right now, they may not wish to emphasise it I knew that but damn, I'm so tired of us throwing away interesting and engaging art because the artist is an ass. These creators are human, and humans are flawed. Some more than others. It shouldn't bring down the creation because people in 2020 say so. This is the worst kind of censorship, and it angers me.
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Post by penguintim on Jun 23, 2020 20:09:43 GMT
Lovecraft was an openly racist individual i think, so with the BLM stuff in the world being a focus right now, they may not wish to emphasise it I knew that but damn, I'm so tired of us throwing away interesting and engaging art because the artist is an ass. These creators are human, and humans are flawed. Some more than others. It shouldn't bring down the creation because people in 2020 say so. This is the worst kind of censorship, and it angers me. Google 'HP Lovecraft cat' then get back to me.
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Post by ollychops on Jun 23, 2020 20:31:58 GMT
Why? Is there controversy over this one? Lovecraft was an openly racist individual i think, so with the BLM stuff in the world being a focus right now, they may not wish to emphasise it Isn't that a part of the story, though? It sounds like they're (or at the very least, Constance is) going to clash with Lovecraft over his views so it seems especially relevant right now...
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Post by tuigirl on Jun 23, 2020 20:54:23 GMT
Lovecraft was an openly racist individual i think, so with the BLM stuff in the world being a focus right now, they may not wish to emphasise it I knew that but damn, I'm so tired of us throwing away interesting and engaging art because the artist is an ass. These creators are human, and humans are flawed. Some more than others. It shouldn't bring down the creation because people in 2020 say so. This is the worst kind of censorship, and it angers me. Ditto.
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Post by elkawho on Jun 23, 2020 20:54:34 GMT
I knew that but damn, I'm so tired of us throwing away interesting and engaging art because the artist is an ass. These creators are human, and humans are flawed. Some more than others. It shouldn't bring down the creation because people in 2020 say so. This is the worst kind of censorship, and it angers me. Google 'HP Lovecraft cat' then get back to me. Yes, I've looked him up. He was a racist, homophobic, xenophobic twat. But he tapped a genre and a place in people's psyches that can't be denied. You don't have to like the artist to acknowledge the art.
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Post by jahawk2009 on Jun 23, 2020 20:55:22 GMT
I'd just like to qualify my earlier post about Lovecraft by saying that my post is intended as a hypothetical reason that someone may believe BF don't want attention on the piece. It's not my opinion or political leanings summarised.
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Post by nitronine on Jun 23, 2020 21:03:35 GMT
I might be wrong but I seem to remember in Vortex they said they wouldn't ignore his racist attitudes and treat him like a hero *cough*Churchill Years*cough*. I thought at the time that it to be a moral issue for the Doctor in the story, but then again they could end up just mentioning it briefly and then brushing it off as "a different time".
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Post by tuigirl on Jun 23, 2020 21:05:26 GMT
Google 'HP Lovecraft cat' then get back to me. Yes, I've looked him up. He was a racist, homophobic, xenophobic twat. But he tapped a genre and a place in people's psyches that can't be denied. You don't have to like the artist to acknowledge the art. I think it was Council of Geeks who made a video the other day about the issue. He gave Lovecraft as an example- only a person with that twisted mindset and with that set of anxieties and beliefs would have been able to come up with his horrific world-building. You have to see for what it is and read between the lines.
The current tearing down old referred statues/ cultural icons/ censoring of books.... smacks too much of iconoclasm to me.
We have to learn from our history, not destroy it and hide it.
As a side note- an old historic town in my region has the head of a very unfortunately drawn person of African origin as their coat of arms. Since the Middle Ages. The person in question has been a famous North African general and later saint and patron saint of that town.
Although the historical person was not stereotypical black as the coat of arms suggests.
Now there is a call to abolish the town's coat of arms because it is racist.
Yes, it IS racist. But is also part of centuries of history.
Tear it down? Keep it?
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Post by nitronine on Jun 23, 2020 21:07:04 GMT
Google 'HP Lovecraft cat' then get back to me. Yes, I've looked him up. He was a racist, homophobic, xenophobic twat. But he tapped a genre and a place in people's psyches that can't be denied. You don't have to like the artist to acknowledge the art. I get the sentiment here but sometimes it can be difficult. I still really like the IT Crowd but I can't watch the episode with the transgender woman anymore since everything that's happened with Glinner. When I first watched I thought we were supposed to laugh at the transphobic behaviour, not agree with it.
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Post by elkawho on Jun 23, 2020 21:08:42 GMT
Yes, I've looked him up. He was a racist, homophobic, xenophobic twat. But he tapped a genre and a place in people's psyches that can't be denied. You don't have to like the artist to acknowledge the art. I think it was Council of Geeks who made a video the other day about the issue. He gave Lovecraft as an example- only a person with that twisted mindset and with that set of anxieties and beliefs would have been able to come up with his horrific world-building. You have to see for what it is and read between the lines.
The current tearing down old referred statues/ cultural icons/ censoring of books.... smacks too much of iconoclasm to me.
We have to learn from our history, not destroy it and hide it.
As a side note- an old historic town in my region has the head of a very unfortunately drawn person of African origin as their coat of arms. Since the Middle Ages. The person in question has been a famous North African general and later saint and patron saint of that town.
Although the historical person was not stereotypical black as the coat of arms suggests.
Now there is a call to abolish the town's coat of arms because it is racist.
Yes, it IS racist. But is also part of centuries of history.
Tear it down? Keep it?
And will they be abolishing the person and his story along with the image? Is that something that serves the history of the town? It's all very disturbing.
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Post by nitronine on Jun 23, 2020 21:15:52 GMT
Yes, I've looked him up. He was a racist, homophobic, xenophobic twat. But he tapped a genre and a place in people's psyches that can't be denied. You don't have to like the artist to acknowledge the art. The current tearing down old referred statues/ cultural icons/ censoring of books.... smacks too much of iconoclasm to me.
We have to learn from our history, not destroy it and hide it. But surely that's the issue, the statues aren't teaching anyone anything, they're statues. Most of them don't even have plaques explaining who the person was, and even if they do they don't say the bad parts of their history. I think we can take the statues down and put them in a museum where people can actually learn. Mods, sorry for derailing this thread a little. If there's a more appropriate thread for this discussion then would you be able to move these posts there? ETA: you mention censoring of books, what books are these? I genuinely don't know
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Post by tuigirl on Jun 23, 2020 21:27:24 GMT
The current tearing down old referred statues/ cultural icons/ censoring of books.... smacks too much of iconoclasm to me.
We have to learn from our history, not destroy it and hide it. But surely that's the issue, the statues aren't teaching anyone anything, they're statues. Most of them don't even have plaques explaining who the person was, and even if they do they don't say the bad parts of their history. I think we can take the statues down and put them in a museum where people can actually learn. Mods, sorry for derailing this thread a little. If there's a more appropriate thread for this discussion then would you be able to move these posts there? ETA: you mention censoring of books, what books are these? I genuinely don't know Well, in Germany, every statue that is put up comes with a plaque explaining who it is and what he has done (for good or evil). So people can learn about the significance of the place and the person. A block away from my workplace there is a little art installation of a priest who has spoken out against Hitler and was beheaded as a traitor at that very place- my workplace is built on the site of a former Wehrmacht barracks.
The town I am working at was the favorite holiday destination of Bismarck- also a controversial figure. You cannot turn a corner without stumble onto some information about him. Or some statue/ plaque/ favorite tree. It is like walking a museum. I am totally fine with it.
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Post by tuigirl on Jun 23, 2020 21:31:31 GMT
I think it was Council of Geeks who made a video the other day about the issue. He gave Lovecraft as an example- only a person with that twisted mindset and with that set of anxieties and beliefs would have been able to come up with his horrific world-building. You have to see for what it is and read between the lines.
The current tearing down old referred statues/ cultural icons/ censoring of books.... smacks too much of iconoclasm to me.
We have to learn from our history, not destroy it and hide it.
As a side note- an old historic town in my region has the head of a very unfortunately drawn person of African origin as their coat of arms. Since the Middle Ages. The person in question has been a famous North African general and later saint and patron saint of that town.
Although the historical person was not stereotypical black as the coat of arms suggests.
Now there is a call to abolish the town's coat of arms because it is racist.
Yes, it IS racist. But is also part of centuries of history.
Tear it down? Keep it?
And will they be abolishing the person and his story along with the image? Is that something that serves the history of the town? It's all very disturbing. I fear it is just hypocrisy. The people screaming the loudest to tear things down to increase their standing and trying to show how much they do for the community, are also the same people refusing to have refugees move into their neighbourhoods.
That is what scares me most.
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