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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 27, 2020 1:32:44 GMT
Was she just in it for progress and blind scientific discovery, or do you imagine Tecteun did have some level of genuine affection and paternal care for the Child as they spent all that time together? Where do you think this relationship should go, if it's brought up again on the series?
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Post by timegirl on Jun 27, 2020 1:39:15 GMT
I think she did initially love the Doctor but then once she knew the Doctor’s regenerative abilities she spiraled into obsessive experimentation that warped her care for the Doctor.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 2:07:30 GMT
I think she did initially love the Doctor but then once she knew the Doctor’s regenerative abilities she spiraled into obsessive experimentation that warped her care for the Doctor. That's a good way of looking at it. A parent wants to do what's best for their child, providing them love and care while simultaneously helping them reach their full potential. The Doctor's theory was before the process of regeneration there was reincarnation with the implication that each self forgot who they were. The Change, however, offered an alternative. Now, if you were faced with a situation where your child could live (for all intents and purposes) forever and you were prepared to test your theories on yourself, once you had the necessary understanding gleaned from your child... Would you do it? That's the choice that Tecteun faced. I think her motives got muddled by her discoveries, yeah. Forgetting the single tree for seeing the entire forest. |
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Post by Jeedai on Jun 27, 2020 3:37:47 GMT
I think she did initially love the Doctor but then once she knew the Doctor’s regenerative abilities she spiraled into obsessive experimentation that warped her care for the Doctor. That's a good way of looking at it. A parent wants to do what's best for their child, providing them love and care while simultaneously helping them reach their full potential. The Doctor's theory was before the process of regeneration there was reincarnation with the implication that each self forgot who they were. The Change, however, offered an alternative. Now, if you were faced with a situation where your child could live (for all intents and purposes) forever and you were prepared to test your theories on yourself, once you had the necessary understanding gleaned from your child... Would you do it? That's the choice that Tecteun faced. I think her motives got muddled by her discoveries, yeah. Forgetting the single tree for seeing the entire forest. Add to that the personality changes that come with each Regeneration. As the Timeless Child became less and less the person Tecteun had adopted, rationalizing further and more traumatic experiments may have become easier and easier. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 4:43:48 GMT
That's a good way of looking at it. A parent wants to do what's best for their child, providing them love and care while simultaneously helping them reach their full potential. The Doctor's theory was before the process of regeneration there was reincarnation with the implication that each self forgot who they were. The Change, however, offered an alternative. Now, if you were faced with a situation where your child could live (for all intents and purposes) forever and you were prepared to test your theories on yourself, once you had the necessary understanding gleaned from your child... Would you do it? That's the choice that Tecteun faced. I think her motives got muddled by her discoveries, yeah. Forgetting the single tree for seeing the entire forest. Add to that the personality changes that come with each Regeneration. As the Timeless Child became less and less the person Tecteun had adopted, rationalizing further and more traumatic experiments may have become easier and easier. Interesting way to look at it. |
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jun 28, 2020 1:14:44 GMT
I think she did initially love the Doctor but then once she knew the Doctor’s regenerative abilities she spiraled into obsessive experimentation that warped her care for the Doctor. That's a good way of looking at it. A parent wants to do what's best for their child, providing them love and care while simultaneously helping them reach their full potential. The Doctor's theory was before the process of regeneration there was reincarnation with the implication that each self forgot who they were. The Change, however, offered an alternative. Now, if you were faced with a situation where your child could live (for all intents and purposes) forever and you were prepared to test your theories on yourself, once you had the necessary understanding gleaned from your child... Would you do it? That's the choice that Tecteun faced. I think her motives got muddled by her discoveries, yeah. Forgetting the single tree for seeing the entire forest. I think how Rassilon is intergrated in future will play a role in this - I personally err on a more sympathetic take on Tecteun (I think she started out more scientific and then grew attached), if only because I think the obvious dynamic between her and Rassilon would be a Jor-El to Zod relationship - one who wants powers to benefit, and the other to control. Is Rassilon a contemporary, or someone who comes after the big discovery? If so, how does that alter the relationship with the Doctor - is he more a father or a step-brother? Does it retroactively put a new perspective on Rassilon stories like Five Doctors and Next Life if there already is a close history there? |
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Post by newt5996 on Jun 28, 2020 1:23:51 GMT
I think it all depends on if we get to know Tecteun as a character, because they were just a plot device like all of The Timeless Children was.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2020 4:04:39 GMT
That's a good way of looking at it. A parent wants to do what's best for their child, providing them love and care while simultaneously helping them reach their full potential. The Doctor's theory was before the process of regeneration there was reincarnation with the implication that each self forgot who they were. The Change, however, offered an alternative. Now, if you were faced with a situation where your child could live (for all intents and purposes) forever and you were prepared to test your theories on yourself, once you had the necessary understanding gleaned from your child... Would you do it? That's the choice that Tecteun faced. I think her motives got muddled by her discoveries, yeah. Forgetting the single tree for seeing the entire forest. I think how Rassilon is integrated in future will play a role in this - I personally err on a more sympathetic take on Tecteun (I think she started out more scientific and then grew attached), if only because I think the obvious dynamic between her and Rassilon would be a Jor-El to Zod relationship - one who wants powers to benefit, and the other to control. Is Rassilon a contemporary, or someone who comes after the big discovery? If so, how does that alter the relationship with the Doctor - is he more a father or a step-brother? Does it retroactively put a new perspective on Rassilon stories like Five Doctors and Next Life if there already is a close history there? Yeah, it's something we've been slowly exploring in the Gallifrey Historia. I'm much the same view of Rassilon's character. Initially sympathetic. I think he began as a good leader for -- what would ultimately become -- the Time Lords, but got caught up by his own character flaws. His hubris and his background as a warrior. In the beginning, at least, he was someone who tried to act in the best interests of his people, a proper statesman, who went mad trying to maintain an unattainably perfect future. I think the Timeless Children of the story's title are the figures that got swallowed up under the vast umbrella of Rassilon's legacy. Partly to do with the founder himself, partly to do with the Time Lords' veneration of him. Tecteun and their invention of regeneration being one amongst many. It's early days, but I think Tecteun might have been pre-Rassilon or, at least, pre-Rassilonian era. Maybe even pre-Pythia. One possibility is that they invented regeneration, but something happened over the course of history that Rassilon had to reinvent it (a foul-up while messing with Gallifreyan biodata?) and thereby attained sole credit. I think it all depends on if we get to know Tecteun as a character, because they were just a plot device like all of The Timeless Children was. Mmm, it could go either way at this point. I'm leaning towards the idea that maybe Tecteun was to Rassilon and his contemporaries what Rassilon is to the Doctor today. |
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Post by sherlock on Jun 28, 2020 12:56:46 GMT
I think how Rassilon is integrated in future will play a role in this - I personally err on a more sympathetic take on Tecteun (I think she started out more scientific and then grew attached), if only because I think the obvious dynamic between her and Rassilon would be a Jor-El to Zod relationship - one who wants powers to benefit, and the other to control. Is Rassilon a contemporary, or someone who comes after the big discovery? If so, how does that alter the relationship with the Doctor - is he more a father or a step-brother? Does it retroactively put a new perspective on Rassilon stories like Five Doctors and Next Life if there already is a close history there? Yeah, it's something we've been slowly exploring in the Gallifrey Historia. I'm much the same view of Rassilon's character. Initially sympathetic. I think he began as a good leader for -- what would ultimately become -- the Time Lords, but got caught up by his own character flaws. His hubris and his background as a warrior. In the beginning, at least, he was someone who tried to act in the best interests of his people, a proper statesman, who went mad trying to maintain an unattainably perfect future. I think the Timeless Children of the story's title are the figures that got swallowed up under the vast umbrella of Rassilon's legacy. Partly to do with the founder himself, partly to do with the Time Lords' veneration of him. Tecteun and their invention of regeneration being one amongst many. It's early days, but I think Tecteun might have been pre-Rassilon or, at least, pre-Rassilonian era. Maybe even pre-Pythia. One possibility is that they invented regeneration, but something happened over the course of history that Rassilon had to reinvent it (a foul-up while messing with Gallifreyan biodata?) and thereby attained sole credit. I think it all depends on if we get to know Tecteun as a character, because they were just a plot device like all of The Timeless Children was. Mmm, it could go either way at this point. I'm leaning towards the idea that maybe Tecteun was to Rassilon and his contemporaries what Rassilon is to the Doctor today. I think The Timeless Children did seem to present Tecteun’s first successful regeneration as contemporary to the start of Time Lord society (the script suggests the two collared Time Lords Tecteun’s second incarnation meets are Rassilon and Omega). The start of her research was likely many years prior however. So it could be she started her work before Rassilon and Omega had even started time travel experiments. I wonder if by the time Tecteun joined the ranks of the Founders, the child was a young man and due to his mysterious origins became nicknamed simply as The Other... |
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jun 28, 2020 14:09:44 GMT
No. She didn't.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 0:26:23 GMT
Yeah, it's something we've been slowly exploring in the Gallifrey Historia. I'm much the same view of Rassilon's character. Initially sympathetic. I think he began as a good leader for -- what would ultimately become -- the Time Lords, but got caught up by his own character flaws. His hubris and his background as a warrior. In the beginning, at least, he was someone who tried to act in the best interests of his people, a proper statesman, who went mad trying to maintain an unattainably perfect future. I think the Timeless Children of the story's title are the figures that got swallowed up under the vast umbrella of Rassilon's legacy. Partly to do with the founder himself, partly to do with the Time Lords' veneration of him. Tecteun and their invention of regeneration being one amongst many. It's early days, but I think Tecteun might have been pre-Rassilon or, at least, pre-Rassilonian era. Maybe even pre-Pythia. One possibility is that they invented regeneration, but something happened over the course of history that Rassilon had to reinvent it (a foul-up while messing with Gallifreyan biodata?) and thereby attained sole credit. Mmm, it could go either way at this point. I'm leaning towards the idea that maybe Tecteun was to Rassilon and his contemporaries what Rassilon is to the Doctor today. I think The Timeless Children did seem to present Tecteun’s first successful regeneration as contemporary to the start of Time Lord society (the script suggests the two collared Time Lords Tecteun’s second incarnation meets are Rassilon and Omega). The start of her research was likely many years prior however. So it could be she started her work before Rassilon and Omega had even started time travel experiments. I wonder if by the time Tecteun joined the ranks of the Founders, the child was a young man and due to his mysterious origins became nicknamed simply as The Other... Yeah, that was my thinking too. I wonder how long it took for regeneration to become accepted? A couple centuries? I think I can take a guess at what was the sticking point between Tecteun and Rassilon was. Why the inventor disappeared from the engineer's history. If Tecteun joined the Founders late enough for them to be recognisably established, maybe there was some dispute over whether regeneration was intended for just the Time Lords or all of Gallifrey. Imagine being inducted into their society, only to find that it becomes an excuse for them to keep your new discovery to themselves. |
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Post by sherlock on Jun 29, 2020 9:07:57 GMT
I think The Timeless Children did seem to present Tecteun’s first successful regeneration as contemporary to the start of Time Lord society (the script suggests the two collared Time Lords Tecteun’s second incarnation meets are Rassilon and Omega). The start of her research was likely many years prior however. So it could be she started her work before Rassilon and Omega had even started time travel experiments. I wonder if by the time Tecteun joined the ranks of the Founders, the child was a young man and due to his mysterious origins became nicknamed simply as The Other... Yeah, that was my thinking too. I wonder how long it took for regeneration to become accepted? A couple centuries? I think I can take a guess at what was the sticking point between Tecteun and Rassilon was. Why the inventor disappeared from the engineer's history. If Tecteun joined the Founders late enough for them to be recognisably established, maybe there was some dispute over whether regeneration was intended for just the Time Lords or all of Gallifrey. Imagine being inducted into their society, only to find that it becomes an excuse for them to keep your new discovery to themselves. I wonder if it was a simple clash of egos. Rassilon’s the leader of the scientists and keen to keep things that way. He does not tolerate rivals- Omega implies he had a role in the loss of Omega, and Day of the Master shows the lengths he goes to get rid of Artron. It’s likely Rassilon would want control of Tecteun’s new discovery and Tecteun probably wouldn’t surrender their life’s work easily. We can assume Rassilon won out, and he went on to refine the regenerative process into the cycle of 12. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2020 11:50:30 GMT
Yeah, that was my thinking too. I wonder how long it took for regeneration to become accepted? A couple centuries? I think I can take a guess at what was the sticking point between Tecteun and Rassilon was. Why the inventor disappeared from the engineer's history. If Tecteun joined the Founders late enough for them to be recognisably established, maybe there was some dispute over whether regeneration was intended for just the Time Lords or all of Gallifrey. Imagine being inducted into their society, only to find that it becomes an excuse for them to keep your new discovery to themselves. I wonder if it was a simple clash of egos. Rassilon’s the leader of the scientists and keen to keep things that way. He does not tolerate rivals- Omega implies he had a role in the loss of Omega, and Day of the Master shows the lengths he goes to get rid of Artron. It’s likely Rassilon would want control of Tecteun’s new discovery and Tecteun probably wouldn’t surrender their life’s work easily. We can assume Rassilon won out, and he went on to refine the regenerative process into the cycle of 12. (With some curious similarities to some of the Great Vampires' techniques. *clears throat*) The Gallifrey Chronicles (the reference book, rather than the EDA novel) offers an interesting little tidbit about regeneration in the early days too. During Rassilon's reign, regeneration spread through the population like a virus, a crisis that ended up being attributed to a biologist called Thremix who ended up assassinated. Let's say that Rassilon and Tecteun feuded. The latter adamant about their discoveries, refusing to give their secrets away, so the former commissioned Thremix to steal and/or study the technique. However, Tecteun built in a failsafe that meant the process could go rogue. A defence mechanism designed to be contained to a laboratory, but -- in trying to escape -- Thremix ends up releasing it onto the whole planet instead. Rassilon and Tecteun are forced to work together to resolve it, but that means giving Rassilon access to their notes. He uses the crisis as leverage against Tecteun. In exchange for full access to regeneration (for the Time Lords), Tecteun's name will remain unattached to the plague of renewal. Blameless and unblamed. Thremix ending up the scapegoat. After that point... I can't see Tecteun staying for too long after that. People in Rassilon's shadow have an increasing penchant for disappearing. Maybe they fled like the Sisterhood before and Doctor would after them? |
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