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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 11, 2020 1:32:09 GMT
Been kicking this one around the grey matter. Would an episode where Who's most infamous nemesis is actually a character in an episode be worth exploring, or is it just excessively meta navelgazing?
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Post by Jeedai on Jul 11, 2020 2:30:33 GMT
There's always something artistic to say about the censorship of art, and the pressures put on artists to censor themselves. Social, economic, career, etc. So, yeah I think it would be worth exploring. As would be whichever (presumably fictional) TV show/ book/ comic/ music/ whatever her ire would be directed against in the story.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 11, 2020 3:52:00 GMT
I think there could definitely be potential either using Mary Whitehouse as a villain/episode’s punching bag directly or a fictionalized stand-in for her. It would need to be the right premise for it to work though🤔 If done right it could be some fabulous satire! Not sure if this premise would work better for tv or if Big Finish is the way to go🤔 If it was big finish I would want a Doctor/Companion team who really would not put up with her crap. It done right it could be prime Doctor Who commentary/satire like “The Greatest Show in the Galaxy” and “ Love and Monsters”.
For some reason the way I keep imagining the episode going like this:
Doctor and companion(s) land during an interview with Mary or Stand-in campaigning against a popular science fiction series remarkably similar to Doctor Who.
Somehow Mary( or her stand-in) ends up in the TARDIS and is forced to tag along with the Doctor and Companion(s) on an adventure she would especially object to.
There are lots of black comedy deaths for her to get outraged about. (Also if this is 13’s era Captain Jack flirts with her and she has to pretend to be morally outraged but she actually likes it.)
The Doctor and companion(s) save her repeatedly from certain death and she begins to understand the Doctor and companions more. I am picturing her being picked to be sacrificed to some kind of horrific ancient alien god and the Doctor saves her from it at the very last possible second.
Then return her to current time time period and she changes her mind about campaigning against the sci fi show after basically living through it and realizing it might not be so bad after all!
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jul 11, 2020 4:54:52 GMT
I’d have her be like that not-Donald Trump character from Arachnids in the UKor King James from the Witchfinders, a less than pleasant person but fundamentally not evil. Someone whose morality is different to the Doctor’s but within the umbrella of what the Doctor tolerates. But who, it’s important this bit, we see is genuinely committed to bettering society for the good of others and not herself. Someone who’s cop the sharp side of the Doctor’s tongue but give as good as she got and not back down or reconsider her beliefs (so basically the same space King James occupies).
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 11, 2020 7:10:32 GMT
Not sure how it would work to be honest, sounds rather like a bit of self-indulgent meta fanfic. Modern audiences would have no idea who she was.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jul 11, 2020 8:49:48 GMT
Seems a bit like dancing on her grave
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Post by grinch on Jul 11, 2020 9:38:30 GMT
I’d agree. You could attempt to do a satire of her and other critics I suppose but if it were handled poorly it would seem extremely mean spirited, a bit smug and at worse extremely self indulgent.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 10:16:26 GMT
I agree that now she is no longer able to defend herself that it is a bit off.
She was a good focus of satire in her day and in my family we used to sound off about her interference in shows such as Doctor Who and Tom & Jerry.
But, looking back, she was right about many things. The 'drowning' freeze frame in the Deadly Assassin. Certainly the unnecessary violence in Season 22.
And of course, one only need look at the sexualised content and violence in British soap operas pre-watershed, which normalise infidelity and aggression.
In many ways, she saw what was coming and how TV mirrors society.
Actually, that would be an interesting story treatment....
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,812
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Post by lidar2 on Jul 11, 2020 10:45:37 GMT
I agree that now she is no longer able to defend herself that it is a bit off. She was a good focus of satire in her day and in my family we used to sound off about her interference in shows such as Doctor Who and Tom & Jerry. But, looking back, she was right about many things. The 'drowning' freeze frame in the Deadly Assassin. Certainly the unnecessary violence in Season 22. And of course, one only need look at the sexualised content and violence in British soap operas pre-watershed, which normalise infidelity and aggression. In many ways, she saw what was coming and how TV mirrors society. Actually, that would be an interesting story treatment.... There are some bits of Classic Who I have not let my children watch because of the violence, so I have agreed with some of her criticisms in retrospect. Deadly Assassin is one of them |
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 11, 2020 13:43:59 GMT
I agree that now she is no longer able to defend herself that it is a bit off. She was a good focus of satire in her day and in my family we used to sound off about her interference in shows such as Doctor Who and Tom & Jerry. But, looking back, she was right about many things. The 'drowning' freeze frame in the Deadly Assassin. Certainly the unnecessary violence in Season 22. And of course, one only need look at the sexualised content and violence in British soap operas pre-watershed, which normalise infidelity and aggression. In many ways, she saw what was coming and how TV mirrors society. Actually, that would be an interesting story treatment.... I think we take a very rose-coloured view of Whitehouse, mostly because we just think of her as 'the old killjoy who didn't like Doctor Who' and dismiss her as just a whiny granny. Any actual factual examination of Whitehouse, however, paints a much, much darker picture of her - in a nutshell, she and the Westboro Baptist Church would've got along quite nicely. |
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Post by timegirl on Jul 11, 2020 13:50:21 GMT
I agree that now she is no longer able to defend herself that it is a bit off. She was a good focus of satire in her day and in my family we used to sound off about her interference in shows such as Doctor Who and Tom & Jerry. But, looking back, she was right about many things. The 'drowning' freeze frame in the Deadly Assassin. Certainly the unnecessary violence in Season 22. And of course, one only need look at the sexualised content and violence in British soap operas pre-watershed, which normalise infidelity and aggression. In many ways, she saw what was coming and how TV mirrors society. Actually, that would be an interesting story treatment.... I think we take a very rose-coloured view of Whitehouse, mostly because we just think of her as 'the old killjoy who didn't Doctor Who' and dismiss her as just a whiny granny. Any actual factual examination of Whitehouse, however, paints a much, much darker picture of her - in a nutshell, she and the Westboro Baptist Church would've got along quite nicely. Perhaps a pure historical about her could be interesting🤔 Mary’s “morals” pitted against the Doctors morals. It could be like an extended more reality based version of the restaurant scene from Boom Town. I don’t see any problem with Who tackling her. It would be quite satisfying to see a so called “moral guardian” taken down, to be honest. I have never had any sympathy for two faced right wing “morally righteous” types and she sounds like a good real world villain for the Doctor to take on. Perhaps it could be interesting if the Doctor tried to show her the other side of things to try to change her views for the better. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 15:21:07 GMT
I agree that now she is no longer able to defend herself that it is a bit off. She was a good focus of satire in her day and in my family we used to sound off about her interference in shows such as Doctor Who and Tom & Jerry. But, looking back, she was right about many things. The 'drowning' freeze frame in the Deadly Assassin. Certainly the unnecessary violence in Season 22. And of course, one only need look at the sexualised content and violence in British soap operas pre-watershed, which normalise infidelity and aggression. In many ways, she saw what was coming and how TV mirrors society. Actually, that would be an interesting story treatment.... I think we take a very rose-coloured view of Whitehouse, mostly because we just think of her as 'the old killjoy who didn't like Doctor Who' and dismiss her as just a whiny granny. Any actual factual examination of Whitehouse, however, paints a much, much darker picture of her - in a nutshell, she and the Westboro Baptist Church would've got along quite nicely. That's interesting to know. Looking at some of her views just now as a response to your post, such as on the subject of Homosexuality, she was no doubt intolerant and fighting against the tide. Lots of things to disagree with her upon, such as the educational an informative power of television (her objection to coverage of the liberation of Belsen by Richard Dimbleby , for one example). I believe the untransmitted series 3 episode of Doomwatch 'Sex and Violence' covered the wider topic and was based on her. As did The Goodies in a more satirical episode of the same title (with Beryl Reid and Alex Macintosh). Somewhere along the line though, there is an argument to be had about the desensitisation of society and whether Television merely reflects, or encourages this. Her wider campaigning and reputation seems to have perhaps undermined and discouraged more reasoned voices over time. |
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Post by newt5996 on Jul 11, 2020 16:18:39 GMT
Nobody's mentioning that this premise has already been done. Steve Lyons' Time of Your Life in the VMA range has Miriam Walker who is a thinly veiled stand in for Whitehouse which is really well done. Walker isn't a villain, just kind of a nuisance.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 11, 2020 16:37:02 GMT
Nobody's mentioning that this premise has already been done. Steve Lyons' Time of Your Life in the VMA range has Miriam Walker who is a thinly veiled stand in for Whitehouse which is really well done. Walker isn't a villain, just kind of a nuisance. Interesting what is the novel like?🤔 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 16:43:32 GMT
Growing up in Ireland left me oblivious to Mary Whitehouse, (although there was an imported magazine on the top shelf of the local newsagents where I got my comics called 'Whitehouse'.... I assume she was never in it!) it was only once I got an internet connection that I got to understand who that name that used to crop up in DW fanzines was and what she was about. So while it's true that Mary Whitehouse played a part in Doctor Who history I'm not sure having her appear in a Doctor Who story would serve any purpose.
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Post by newt5996 on Jul 11, 2020 17:32:05 GMT
Nobody's mentioning that this premise has already been done. Steve Lyons' Time of Your Life in the VMA range has Miriam Walker who is a thinly veiled stand in for Whitehouse which is really well done. Walker isn't a villain, just kind of a nuisance. Interesting what is the novel like?🤔 So you know Bad Wolf, it's kind of where Davies got that premise. It's Six right after Trial, attempting to be a hermit, but the Time Lords drag him back into an adventure. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 18:34:12 GMT
I must say, the title of this thread reminds me of The Mary Whitehouse Experience. A trendy early 1990's British comedy show, for those who don't know of it. A favourite with the undergraduate set, like Reeves & Mortimer was too, on account of their range of 'hilarious' catchphrases, neatly encapsulated by Student Grant, in Viz Comic at the time.
Interesting factoid: anticipating litigation, they prepared an alternative, ultimately unused title of 'The William Rees-Mogg Experience'. That's Jacob Rees-Mogg's father, by the way.
Adds precisely nothing to the discussion, but never mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 7:11:51 GMT
Nobody's mentioning that this premise has already been done. Steve Lyons' Time of Your Life in the VMA range has Miriam Walker who is a thinly veiled stand in for Whitehouse which is really well done. Walker isn't a villain, just kind of a nuisance. She's rather sweet, actually. It'd be very easy to make Mrs Walker an irritating heat sink for criticism, but Lyons gives her the same sort of charm as Beryl Reid's character on The Goodies. She slots in rather nicely as a counterpoint to the 2000 A.D. hyperviolence of the Meson Broadcasting System. Her and the Doctor end up at odds, as do most at the point of her umbrella ("Dear lady, you've been watching too much Zorro!" critiques the Doctor), but she's the one helping to lead part of the evacuation at the story's end. A caricature of Whitehouse that's allowed to turn into a character in her own right and be given a fair helping of human moments. |
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