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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 19, 2020 16:41:56 GMT
I guess we have to assume the Originals just didn’t sell well. I didn’t see any of them get bad reviews, but if there’s been barely any follow-up it’s probably just sales. Right.... these Originals, but it doesn't make any sense to do a handful and walk away. They have (well, had) a perfectly functional "pilot" range, like a TV network searching for its next big hit. You make a few minimally-budgeted pilots, see what sells, keep that and drop the rest. Then you make a few more, see what sells, keep that and drop the rest, repeat ad nauseum. Even if these Originals didn't sell well (and we don't really know one way or another), them having made half a dozen and then going back to status quo just doesn't make any sense. How do they find their next big original/unique range if they aren't willing to experiment? It's baffling. Agree 100%. I thought the Originals range was going to be on ongoing thing with different one-off sets on a regular basis, & the potential for sequels if certain sets sold well. |
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 19, 2020 20:42:25 GMT
Bearing in mind none of us have access to Big Finish's sales numbers, projections of sales numbers, corporate plans or their P&L statement....we can all see that changes are afoot. With the Main Range coming to an end as we know it and for it to be replaced by the Great Whatever Comes Next, it certainly sends the signal that JHE and NB are rethinking a pretty major aspect of the company. Combine that with one or two off the cuff podcast comments from Nick about how they were producing too much material or they need to do less stuff, it does let us know they have acknowledged they need to rein some things in on the production end. I think that means we see less obscure cultish stuff like Star Cops, Time-Slip & The Omega Factor and more Doctor Who related material and more Gerry Anderson based projects. Why? Because we know both have larger fan bases. The more obscure licenses are well, more obscure and a harder sale. As for the Big Finish Originals banner? If you go back and look to when these different ranges were announced they seemed to be clearly linked to BF's 20th anniversary. I don't recall it ever being stated that these would be ongoing projects or that the banner would consistently be turning out new titles. Personally I would think a lower cost overhead project, lower costs meaning download only with no physical production costs, would make a certain degree of sense for them. Those are sales & financial numbers that I would be really curious to see. I'm also kind of surprised that Big Finish hasn't tried to package some of those series and create an additional revenue stream with Audible. Anyway.
As for banking material. Yeah, this is something I've been writing about here, and discussing with Davey, for years now. What does BF do as classic Doctors leave us and NU Who Doctors don't want to commit? Does maintaining the license past 2025 even make sense for them with a bench that includes say 3 or 4 original Doctors instead of 6? I can't imagine that the license for Doctor Who is cheap. And if you are paying the BBC for the rights to Doctor Who and their companions, you need to be producing content to justify the cost of the license. And bearing in mind comments in the past that full cast audios sell better than enhanced audio book style recording, then we start looking at more recasts across the board. I mean look at Blake's 7. What is that series without either of its two main leads and its main antagonist? What do you do if you want full cast Blake's 7 audios? You recast or you let the license go. Certainly trying to bank audios helps kick that recasting can down the road for a year or three...or in the case of Tom Baker maybe several years....but there comes a point where that is option you are left with. It is less about respect and more business. Which is why I think the real growth for Big Finish, unless Matt Smith & Peter Capaldi suddenly decide to start giving BF 6 or 9 days a year, is Gerry Anderson related titles. Combine that with different actors playing classic Doctors and their traveling companions, and I think that is what Big Finish looks like moving forward post-2025.
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Post by polly on Jul 20, 2020 18:46:48 GMT
My question is, what are other forum members thoughts regarding this and what you think the future hold for Big Finish? Are spin-offs and recasts too niche? Can they get Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi and Christopher Eccleston on board in the not too distant future? Will the company shrink or expand? Quite interested to hear peoples thoughts. It's hard to say what the future holds. I wish I could be nosy and take a look at Big Finish's sales numbers because it would make things easier to extrapolate. I think anyone who is being realistic knows that they've been on a ticking clock almost since they started, since many of their main actors are now quite elderly. I think we will see Tom Baker-style banking of stories become the norm, I think we will see more recasts, a heavier emphasis on New Series material, and perhaps branching into other franchises. Recasts are a contentious issue. I don't know how everyone else feels, but to me the appeal of Big Finish's Doctor Who products were the original cast returning to their roles once more. I don't mind a recast to plug a hole like Elliot Chapman did, but when something becomes primarily recasts, like the 1DAs, I have to admit my interest drops to more or less nothing. The spinoffs, ehh. I mean, some of them are better grounded than others. The days of Gallifrey and Dalek Empire gave us shows that offered up a unique corner of the Whoniverse. I think nowadays we're getting a little too far into the weeds with some of the box sets. Even aside from that, I think the spinoffs good or bad are ancillary material. I doubt anyone would go looking for Big Finish based on something like Lady Christina for its own sake. You need that tentpole series like Doctor Who or Torchwood as the entry point before you go exploring. I hope that they can get the other New Series doctors on board. I think having a rotation of two or three of them like they did with the Classic Doctors in the early Main Range days is going to be the lifeblood of the company. Add in some returning and original companions, and I think it would be sustainable. I'm not sure how soon that would be. The New Series has tended to cast younger and in many cases the gap between their TV tenure and Big Finish getting the license is much smaller than, say, Androzani and Sirens of Time. Ideally, as the classic actors are no longer available from retirement or passing away, there would be a nice overlap with more of the new series actors becoming more available. If they can get that scenario to happen, I think they'll hold steady, more or less. Big Finish as a whole is a niche thing, never mind the spinoffs, so I don't see it becoming a big mainstream success in any circumstance. These are products for nerds. Nerds are loyal, but not always numerous. I don't want to be doom and gloom, but I do think there is an upper limit on interest in Big Finish, and I don't foresee an audio drama renaissance any time soon. I can see a time where they contract to something similar to the early-2000s, with just the Doctors, Torchwood, and maybe a couple of select spinoffs. But, at the same time, nothing and no one lasts forever and so for the long term, they'll probably have to expand into some other kind of work. So tl;dr - I don't know, but there are a few factors working against them. |
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Post by captainpugwash on Jul 21, 2020 14:55:05 GMT
My question is, what are other forum members thoughts regarding this and what you think the future hold for Big Finish? Are spin-offs and recasts too niche? Can they get Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi and Christopher Eccleston on board in the not too distant future? Will the company shrink or expand? Quite interested to hear peoples thoughts. It's hard to say what the future holds. I wish I could be nosy and take a look at Big Finish's sales numbers because it would make things easier to extrapolate. I think anyone who is being realistic knows that they've been on a ticking clock almost since they started, since many of their main actors are now quite elderly. I think we will see Tom Baker-style banking of stories become the norm, I think we will see more recasts, a heavier emphasis on New Series material, and perhaps branching into other franchises. Recasts are a contentious issue. I don't know how everyone else feels, but to me the appeal of Big Finish's Doctor Who products were the original cast returning to their roles once more. I don't mind a recast to plug a hole like Elliot Chapman did, but when something becomes primarily recasts, like the 1DAs, I have to admit my interest drops to more or less nothing. The spinoffs, ehh. I mean, some of them are better grounded than others. The days of Gallifrey and Dalek Empire gave us shows that offered up a unique corner of the Whoniverse. I think nowadays we're getting a little too far into the weeds with some of the box sets. Even aside from that, I think the spinoffs good or bad are ancillary material. I doubt anyone would go looking for Big Finish based on something like Lady Christina for its own sake. You need that tentpole series like Doctor Who or Torchwood as the entry point before you go exploring. I hope that they can get the other New Series doctors on board. I think having a rotation of two or three of them like they did with the Classic Doctors in the early Main Range days is going to be the lifeblood of the company. Add in some returning and original companions, and I think it would be sustainable. I'm not sure how soon that would be. The New Series has tended to cast younger and in many cases the gap between their TV tenure and Big Finish getting the license is much smaller than, say, Androzani and Sirens of Time. Ideally, as the classic actors are no longer available from retirement or passing away, there would be a nice overlap with more of the new series actors becoming more available. If they can get that scenario to happen, I think they'll hold steady, more or less. Big Finish as a whole is a niche thing, never mind the spinoffs, so I don't see it becoming a big mainstream success in any circumstance. These are products for nerds. Nerds are loyal, but not always numerous. I don't want to be doom and gloom, but I do think there is an upper limit on interest in Big Finish, and I don't foresee an audio drama renaissance any time soon. I can see a time where they contract to something similar to the early-2000s, with just the Doctors, Torchwood, and maybe a couple of select spinoffs. But, at the same time, nothing and no one lasts forever and so for the long term, they'll probably have to expand into some other kind of work. So tl;dr - I don't know, but there are a few factors working against them. I think a problem is that BF as a company create product that is niche, so the company is seen as niche. That’s the hole they have to get out of. I don’t know how other production companies view BF but I would imagine that BF the company is tied to the DW product it makes. I think they should offer there services out to make other shows/podcast drama. Become a proper independent production company. |
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Post by muckypup on Jul 21, 2020 15:27:24 GMT
Right.... these Originals, but it doesn't make any sense to do a handful and walk away. They have (well, had) a perfectly functional "pilot" range, like a TV network searching for its next big hit. You make a few minimally-budgeted pilots, see what sells, keep that and drop the rest. Then you make a few more, see what sells, keep that and drop the rest, repeat ad nauseum. Even if these Originals didn't sell well (and we don't really know one way or another), them having made half a dozen and then going back to status quo just doesn't make any sense. How do they find their next big original/unique range if they aren't willing to experiment? It's baffling. Agree 100%. I thought the Originals range was going to be on ongoing thing with different one-off sets on a regular basis, & the potential for sequels if certain sets sold well. i looks like none tv stuff dont do very well for them...... the HG wells collection was really good.....and plenty of other writers (out of copyright) have great tales worth a stab but nothing else has even been mentioned....... oz, triffids, classics, Shakespeare, all seem to be discontinued, its all points that paying approx. a tenner for an hour of non licence product is no longer viable or never has been viable, but when you consider audible it costs a credit (about £5 depending on your plan) for 3-55 hours and loads of podcasts too or podcast drama with ads for free and bbc still has great stuff on its sounds app from the past along with radio 4 & extra, you can see why people dont........ its a shame cause BF quality knocks everyone else out of the water 99% of the time.......but BF's desire to Box set everything gets prohibitive........better to make a box set of 4 1-hour titles and see what people liked |
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 21, 2020 17:25:40 GMT
My question is, what are other forum members thoughts regarding this and what you think the future hold for Big Finish? Are spin-offs and recasts too niche? Can they get Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi and Christopher Eccleston on board in the not too distant future? Will the company shrink or expand? Quite interested to hear peoples thoughts. It's hard to say what the future holds. I wish I could be nosy and take a look at Big Finish's sales numbers because it would make things easier to extrapolate. I think anyone who is being realistic knows that they've been on a ticking clock almost since they started, since many of their main actors are now quite elderly. I think we will see Tom Baker-style banking of stories become the norm, I think we will see more recasts, a heavier emphasis on New Series material, and perhaps branching into other franchises. Recasts are a contentious issue. I don't know how everyone else feels, but to me the appeal of Big Finish's Doctor Who products were the original cast returning to their roles once more. I don't mind a recast to plug a hole like Elliot Chapman did, but when something becomes primarily recasts, like the 1DAs, I have to admit my interest drops to more or less nothing. The spinoffs, ehh. I mean, some of them are better grounded than others. The days of Gallifrey and Dalek Empire gave us shows that offered up a unique corner of the Whoniverse. I think nowadays we're getting a little too far into the weeds with some of the box sets. Even aside from that, I think the spinoffs good or bad are ancillary material. I doubt anyone would go looking for Big Finish based on something like Lady Christina for its own sake. You need that tentpole series like Doctor Who or Torchwood as the entry point before you go exploring. I hope that they can get the other New Series doctors on board. I think having a rotation of two or three of them like they did with the Classic Doctors in the early Main Range days is going to be the lifeblood of the company. Add in some returning and original companions, and I think it would be sustainable. I'm not sure how soon that would be. The New Series has tended to cast younger and in many cases the gap between their TV tenure and Big Finish getting the license is much smaller than, say, Androzani and Sirens of Time. Ideally, as the classic actors are no longer available from retirement or passing away, there would be a nice overlap with more of the new series actors becoming more available. If they can get that scenario to happen, I think they'll hold steady, more or less. Big Finish as a whole is a niche thing, never mind the spinoffs, so I don't see it becoming a big mainstream success in any circumstance. These are products for nerds. Nerds are loyal, but not always numerous. I don't want to be doom and gloom, but I do think there is an upper limit on interest in Big Finish, and I don't foresee an audio drama renaissance any time soon. I can see a time where they contract to something similar to the early-2000s, with just the Doctors, Torchwood, and maybe a couple of select spinoffs. But, at the same time, nothing and no one lasts forever and so for the long term, they'll probably have to expand into some other kind of work. So tl;dr - I don't know, but there are a few factors working against them. I do find myself being less & less interested in BF sad to say. Not sure where they can go without getting some new Doctors. I don't mind recasts but the real selling point is as you say the original cast members rather than loads of spin-offs with tenuous links to 'Nu Who'. I feel BF are going through a tricky period, future proofing some ranges & trying loads of different spin-offs to see what sticks. |
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Post by polly on Jul 21, 2020 18:46:38 GMT
I think a problem is that BF as a company create product that is niche, so the company is seen as niche. That’s the hole they have to get out of. I don’t know how other production companies view BF but I would imagine that BF the company is tied to the DW product it makes. I think they should offer there services out to make other shows/podcast drama. Become a proper independent production company. That's not a bad idea at all. I don't know how prestigious Scribe awards are, but they get multiple things nominated all the time, so somebody out there knows that their production value is high quality. It would definitely make them appealing in a work-for-hire scenario. I was mulling over the idea that they could branch out into producing mainstream audiobooks for platforms like Audible, or something. I remember in the 90s some of the Star Wars books on tape had music and sound effects, I'm sure Big Finish would be right at home with something like that. I do find myself being less & less interested in BF sad to say. Not sure where they can go without getting some new Doctors. I don't mind recasts but the real selling point is as you say the original cast members rather than loads of spin-offs with tenuous links to 'Nu Who'. I feel BF are going through a tricky period, future proofing some ranges & trying loads of different spin-offs to see what sticks. I suspect that as well. There seems to be a lot of change going on at BF lately, and a lot of it seems, in my opinion, geared toward cost cutting and maximizing profit per sale. I realize that's how businesses are supposed to work, but it makes me wonder if they're trying to find a new standard that will work long term. Going down to three stories per box set instead of four, no more individual covers, no more Main Range, threatening to hike overseas prices, it's becoming a bit of a pattern lately. I wouldn't say my personal interest has waned, but there are a lot of spinoffs/box sets I don't see myself buying any time soon, either. |
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