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Post by theillusiveman on Aug 29, 2020 16:26:21 GMT
I've never been able to wrap my mind around the objections to the Doctor having romantic relationships. The Doctor may be a Time Lord, with alien sensibilities, but he/she is still a thinking, feeling person who, like any thinking, feeling person, has just as much chance of meeting another person that they resonate with and grow to care deeply about. It surprises me that it took as long as it did for the Doctor to have a romantic side on the show. It's a major facet of character development to be drawn to another person. I'm not saying all characters have to have romances, but for the Doctor to live as long as he/she has and not experience those feelings with any of the people he/she meets along the way seems like a stretch and the objections to it confuse me. The Doctor isn't a monk or a nun. The Doctor dances, so why is anyone surprised when he/she picks a dance partner? I Think it was the case that in the Classic Series there was suppose to be an asexual element to The Doctor as for audiences to have The Doctor as an Avuncular male rolemodel figure
i mean there were hints of romantic attraction (Romana 2 and The 4th Doctor, First Doctor and Camille from The Aztecs) and then yeah The TV Movie 8th Doctor and Grace Romance/Kiss happened which yeah i didnt mind and kinda a shame that Big Finish didn't explored 8's romantic side and pretty much ignored it (The Books certainly went into that detail of the character with characters even with undertones with Fitz and even The Villian Sabbath)
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Post by tuigirl on Aug 29, 2020 16:29:39 GMT
On a side note. The above mentioned falcon. Still out there. Just cried out. (Having my balcony door open). Nor sure if I am making a point. Carry on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2020 16:35:42 GMT
That the writing let down the Capaldi era. Sometimes I wonder if those who make that comment even watched the same episodes as me! Capaldi’s era has the best story arch of any era of Who both Modern and Classic. With many extremely memorable brilliant episodes like: Listen, Mummy on the Orient Express, Dark Water/Death and Heaven, Last Christmas, Magicians Apprentice/ Witches Familiar, Zygon Invasion/Inversion, Face the Raven, Heaven Sent, Hell Bent( yes I said it), The Pilot, Thin Ice, World Enough and Time, The Doctor Fall, and Twice upon a Time! This era has some of the deepest character writing of the Doctor and companions ever! I'm pretty sure the writing has always let down every incarnation of the Doctor. Ah, poor Colin. If only the writing was better. Sylv - interesting Doctor, let down by the writing. RTD? All belching bins and wind-breaking aliens!
It seems that - according to these critics - while Jodie's current incarnation is being let down by the writing, Capaldi's era is looked upon more favourably. When some other poor blighter takes over the reigns of Doctor Who, I'm sure their writing will be the reason why that particular era fails ... with the critics!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2020 16:42:39 GMT
I've never been able to wrap my mind around the objections to the Doctor having romantic relationships. The Doctor may be a Time Lord, with alien sensibilities, but he/she is still a thinking, feeling person who, like any thinking, feeling person, has just as much chance of meeting another person that they resonate with and grow to care deeply about. It surprises me that it took as long as it did for the Doctor to have a romantic side on the show. It's a major facet of character development to be drawn to another person. I'm not saying all characters have to have romances, but for the Doctor to live as long as he/she has and not experience those feelings with any of the people he/she meets along the way seems like a stretch and the objections to it confuse me. The Doctor isn't a monk or a nun. The Doctor dances, so why is anyone surprised when he/she picks a dance partner? I Think it was the case that in the Classic Series there was suppose to be an asexual element to The Doctor as for audiences to have The Doctor as an Avuncular male rolemodel figure
i mean there were hints of romantic attraction (Romana 2 and The 4th Doctor, First Doctor and Camille from The Aztecs) and then yeah The TV Movie 8th Doctor and Grace Romance/Kiss happened which yeah i didnt mind and kinda a shame that Big Finish didn't explored 8's romantic side and pretty much ignored it (The Books certainly went into that detail of the character with characters even with undertones with Fitz and even The Villian Sabbath)
I recall with amusement the stated view of Elisabeth Sladen, that the Doctor was like Action Man (Gi Joe), basically to bear in mind that there was nothing down there!
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Post by timegirl on Aug 29, 2020 18:51:38 GMT
I've never been able to wrap my mind around the objections to the Doctor having romantic relationships. The Doctor may be a Time Lord, with alien sensibilities, but he/she is still a thinking, feeling person who, like any thinking, feeling person, has just as much chance of meeting another person that they resonate with and grow to care deeply about. It surprises me that it took as long as it did for the Doctor to have a romantic side on the show. It's a major facet of character development to be drawn to another person. I'm not saying all characters have to have romances, but for the Doctor to live as long as he/she has and not experience those feelings with any of the people he/she meets along the way seems like a stretch and the objections to it confuse me. The Doctor isn't a monk or a nun. The Doctor dances, so why is anyone surprised when he/she picks a dance partner? Oh my god, you took the words right out of my mouth!😃 I love when the Doctor has romances, I think it’s heartwarming and shows a different side to them. I would hate if Who ever abandoned romance! What’s your favorite Doctor romance? My favorite Doctor Companion romance is by far 12 and Clara ( they are definitely not father and daughter😉), they have one of the deepest and unconventional romances in Who. Everyone keeps trying to convince me that it’s not a thing but even Peter Capaldi says it’s romantic: youtu.be/K7i62ERas2s I really hope that someday big finish expands on their relationship one day. Plus I really want them to kiss at least once, and don’t laugh but I think 12 and Clara kissing would be one of the most exciting things I could possibly imagine that could happen in a big finish audio!
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Post by constonks on Aug 29, 2020 20:25:46 GMT
Another one is, and I've been on the receiving end of this: "You're easily pleased." Dare to like an episode/audio that isn't to the tastes of others, or is produced by people who aren't to the tastes of others, or stars an actor who isn't to the tastes of others ... and you're 'easily pleased.' As a criticism, this is not atypical. As an insult, it is surprisingly effective.
What an odd put-down, I'd honestly wear "you're easily pleased" as a badge of pride. Could you imagine the alternative? All these small and wonderful things I just wouldn't appreciate for... what? Snobbery? To be seen having the opinion? That's not any sort of victory. Fun. That's the name of the game here. I'm very fortunate, I do seem to be easily pleased. Wouldn't change that for the world. Part of it comes from learning the inner mechanics of a story and just being thrilled that it works, full stop. Life's too short to be hung up on appearances for appearance's sake. Enjoy what you like. You don't actually need anyone else's permission. Abed from Community said it best: "I guess I just like liking things." I'd much rather search for the things I liked than harp on what I disliked!
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Aug 30, 2020 0:27:06 GMT
That the writing let down the Capaldi era. Sometimes I wonder if those who make that comment even watched the same episodes as me! Capaldi’s era has the best story arch of any era of Who both Modern and Classic. With many extremely memorable brilliant episodes like: Listen, Mummy on the Orient Express, Dark Water/Death and Heaven, Last Christmas, Magicians Apprentice/ Witches Familiar, Zygon Invasion/Inversion, Face the Raven, Heaven Sent, Hell Bent( yes I said it), The Pilot, Thin Ice, World Enough and Time, The Doctor Fall, and Twice upon a Time! This era has some of the deepest character writing of the Doctor and companions ever! I'm pretty sure the writing has always let down every incarnation of the Doctor. Ah, poor Colin. If only the writing was better. Sylv - interesting Doctor, let down by the writing. RTD? All belching bins and wind-breaking aliens!
It seems that - according to these critics - while Jodie's current incarnation is being let down by the writing, Capaldi's era is looked upon more favourably. When some other poor blighter takes over the reigns of Doctor Who, I'm sure their writing will be the reason why that particular era fails ... with the critics! My go-to for people who complain about how terrible “ThE wRiTiNg” is the back-to-back stories Caves Of Androzani/ Twin Dilemma. One is consistently voted a “classic” and the other... isn’t. Yet they were made by the same crew, with the same producer, same script editor/ showrunner... and broadcast next to each other - one even leads into the other! Yet the acrobatics that people go through to justify slagging off something because of when it was made or who made it are astonishing.
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Post by timegirl on Aug 31, 2020 14:52:18 GMT
Here’s one that really gets under my skin that I hear a lot :The Doctor’s personality should never change after they regenerate and if they do change its bad writing. Also this is an annoying New Who thing that they would never do in the classic era.
I believe the best written Doctors are the ones who change and grow over time which is why 12 is my favorite Doctor. Seriously his arch is basically a coming of age story and one of the best ones at that! I hate when people say he was bad because he was “inconsistently written” and should have stayed dark and grumpy when the whole point of his character was to grow, change and lighten over time. Character growth is important with the Doctor and is extremely compelling. The Doctor is a living, breathing person with thoughts and feeling of course they are going to change and develop. As well as 12, this helped elevate 1, 6( in big finish) and 9 and made them all very memorable. Also the first Doctor grew and changed over time so it’s not a new concept. We are also seeing character development and change ( especially after the Timeless Children) with 13 which is a very good sign.
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Post by number13 on Sept 1, 2020 22:13:01 GMT
I think you guys hit the nail on the head😊 I often feel awkward for some of the episodes I like that have bad reputations such as “Love and Monsters” ( brilliant satire!), “Fear Her” (who doesn’t like drawings that come to life) and Hell Bent ( heartbreaking finale that makes me cry), but that doesn’t stop me from enjoying them! Hey, I like Warriors of the Deep (one of the first Target books I ever read) and think Timelash has a good, solid 25-minute two-parter hidden in all that padding (I've pulled it together). We like what we like. And even for stories that I let pass me by, like The Gunfighters, to miss out on something like number13 's "Ballad of the Last Supper" would be a crying shame. I've still got it saved to a file somewhere... Here it is, with deference to the sir in question: We miss out on so much when we close our mind to possibilities. Things like this are what I'm here for, irrespective of trendiness, and always enjoyable. Lol! I'd almost forgotten my little composition when Tuigirl saved that squirrel! Though as I now recall, it was you Mr Wolfie who suggested ballads would be sung about it - so I hold you partly to blame! (I think I called it 'The Ballad of the Second Chance Squirrel'.)
As 'Love and Monsters' was mentioned, on the subject of second chances this is a good place to say that I owe Davy and this forum for getting me to give "the worst episode ever" a second chance - and second time around, I loved it! And I'm prepared to say, openly and before midnight, that I think 'Timelash' is heaps of fun.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 2:02:10 GMT
Hey, I like Warriors of the Deep (one of the first Target books I ever read) and think Timelash has a good, solid 25-minute two-parter hidden in all that padding (I've pulled it together). We like what we like. And even for stories that I let pass me by, like The Gunfighters, to miss out on something like number13 's "Ballad of the Last Supper" would be a crying shame. I've still got it saved to a file somewhere... Here it is, with deference to the sir in question: We miss out on so much when we close our mind to possibilities. Things like this are what I'm here for, irrespective of trendiness, and always enjoyable. Lol! I'd almost forgotten my little composition when Tuigirl saved that squirrel! Though as I now recall, it was you Mr Wolfie who suggested ballads would be sung about it - so I hold you partly to blame! (I think I called it 'The Ballad of the Second Chance Squirrel'.)
As 'Love and Monsters' was mentioned, on the subject of second chances this is a good place to say that I owe Davy and this forum for getting me to give "the worst episode ever" a second chance - and second time around, I loved it! And I'm prepared to say, openly and before midnight, that I think 'Timelash' is heaps of fun. Ohhh, I did, didn't I? I remember, I ended up humming it while in the supermarket and I noticed it'd spread through the shoppers on the way back (🎶 " La, da-da, de-de-da-da, da-da, de-le." 🎶). Ahhh... Teamwork.
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Post by number13 on Sept 2, 2020 13:56:19 GMT
Lol! I'd almost forgotten my little composition when Tuigirl saved that squirrel! Though as I now recall, it was you Mr Wolfie who suggested ballads would be sung about it - so I hold you partly to blame! (I think I called it 'The Ballad of the Second Chance Squirrel'.)
As 'Love and Monsters' was mentioned, on the subject of second chances this is a good place to say that I owe Davy and this forum for getting me to give "the worst episode ever" a second chance - and second time around, I loved it! And I'm prepared to say, openly and before midnight, that I think 'Timelash' is heaps of fun. Ohhh, I did, didn't I? I remember, I ended up humming it while in the supermarket and I noticed it'd spread through the shoppers on the way back (🎶 " La, da-da, de-de-da-da, da-da, de-le." 🎶). Ahhh... Teamwork. Ahh now you mention that one you hummed around the market... that was linked to the earlier event of 'The Ballad of Timelord's End-of-the-Week Shopping':
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Sept 2, 2020 14:29:45 GMT
The Classic Argument "I haven't Seen/Heard/Read it but its Bad!" Regards mark687 That's exactly like my children when we serve up a food they have never eaten before
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Post by timegirl on Sept 2, 2020 15:56:00 GMT
Criticism: Hell Bent was terrible episode in fact it’s the worst episode ever made ! They completely wasted the Doctor’s return to Gallifrey, and made it the Clara show again!
I never understood Hell Bent’s bad reputation. I mean it’s not a completely perfect episode, but I think Hell Bent was all the better for focusing on 12 and Clara’s relationship and leaving Gallifrey to the background. If it had just been about Gallifrey it would have been far to sterile and bland and we would have missed out some heartbreaking character drama.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 0:09:04 GMT
Ohhh, I did, didn't I? I remember, I ended up humming it while in the supermarket and I noticed it'd spread through the shoppers on the way back (🎶 " La, da-da, de-de-da-da, da-da, de-le." 🎶). Ahhh... Teamwork. Ahh now you mention that one you hummed around the market... that was linked to the earlier event of 'The Ballad of Timelord's End-of-the-Week Shopping': Oh, yes! Perhaps we'll see more such ballads in the future?
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Post by number13 on Sept 3, 2020 11:48:22 GMT
Ahh now you mention that one you hummed around the market... that was linked to the earlier event of 'The Ballad of Timelord's End-of-the-Week Shopping': Oh, yes! Perhaps we'll see more such ballads in the future? Don't tempt me...
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Sept 3, 2020 11:49:59 GMT
Doctor Who not having a penis.
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Post by timegirl on Sept 3, 2020 13:03:39 GMT
Here’s two episodes I have thought get too harsh a criticism: The Two Doctors being a terrible episode with no redeeming values.
Come on how could anyone not at least get a few laughs from this! Plus it’s got memorable and original villains, a brilliant Doctor team up, scenic Spain, and sexy Sixie in a waistcoat and no jacket 😉😁
Robots of Sherwood, would have been better if it was done during 11’s era instead of 12’s because 11 would be a total Robin Hood fanboy and gush over how awesome everything is, and the episode makes no sense and sucks with 12 because it’s all goofy and 12 is grumpy and doesn’t appreciate Robin Hood and Sherwood Forest.
Umm, the contrast between 12 and Robin Hood/Sherwood Forest is the whole point. It would not have been nearly as effective if it was 11 gushing over everything rather than grumpy, cynical 12. The whole episode feels as though it’s basically 12 as Blackadder Competing against his very own Flashheart ( Robin Hood) for Clara’s affection. Contrast between a goofy campy setting and a dour main character can create some of the best comedy. The episode is fun and brilliant as it is!
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 3, 2020 15:06:03 GMT
Doctor Who not having a penis. There is nothing wrong with some people who don't want a female doctor as they are entitled to their opinion
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Sept 3, 2020 15:14:40 GMT
Doctor Who not having a penis. There is nothing wrong with some people who don't want a female doctor as they are entitled to their opinion
You could say that about every single comment here that defends certain criticisms of the show. Why single mine out? Touched a nerve did I?
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 3, 2020 15:19:40 GMT
There is nothing wrong with some people who don't want a female doctor as they are entitled to their opinion
You could say that about every single comment here that defends certain criticisms of the show. Why single mine out? Touched a nerve did I?meh not really just apathetic
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