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Post by nucleusofswarm on Sept 5, 2020 1:21:51 GMT
So, after the Boyega interview, and well everything else, I got thinking about Yaz and wondering, well, where do we go from here with her background? Of course, no one saw what was to come when she was created, but moving forward, is this a part of her character that ought to be shoved more to the sidelines, or should the now-unfortunate disparity between being POC and a cop on a show that has aimed to have greater sensitivity be confronted?
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Post by constonks on Sept 5, 2020 3:05:34 GMT
So, after the Boyega interview, and well everything else, I got thinking about Yaz and wondering, well, where do we go from here with her background? Of course, no one saw what was to come when she was created, but moving forward, is this a part of her character that ought to be shoved more to the sidelines, or should the now-unfortunate disparity between being POC and a cop on a show that has aimed to have greater sensitivity be confronted? Honestly I think they could do a lot with it if they had a fairly grounded modern day episode. Confronting modern day racism would be an amazing follow-up to Rosa. I'd like to see Yaz come to terms with it all, rather than pushing it to the side. Could be some powerful stuff.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Sept 5, 2020 8:43:31 GMT
So, after the Boyega interview, and well everything else, I got thinking about Yaz and wondering, well, where do we go from here with her background? Of course, no one saw what was to come when she was created, but moving forward, is this a part of her character that ought to be shoved more to the sidelines, or should the now-unfortunate disparity between being POC and a cop on a show that has aimed to have greater sensitivity be confronted?
Unfortunate disparity? Disparity means there is a visible dissonance between A and B. Yaz's only current issue with being in the police is actually showing up for work! If there's a Who story to be told that involves the failings of institutionalised British policing/law enforcement regarding racism, and I'm old enough to remember "innocent until proven Irish" so it's not just POC, then absolutely it should be addressed. But right now there isn't a visible disparity.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Sept 5, 2020 9:44:09 GMT
So, after the Boyega interview, and well everything else, I got thinking about Yaz and wondering, well, where do we go from here with her background? Of course, no one saw what was to come when she was created, but moving forward, is this a part of her character that ought to be shoved more to the sidelines, or should the now-unfortunate disparity between being POC and a cop on a show that has aimed to have greater sensitivity be confronted?
Unfortunate disparity? Disparity means there is a visible dissonance between A and B. Yaz's only current issue with being in the police is actually showing up for work! If there's a Who story to be told that involves the failings of institutionalised British policing/law enforcement regarding racism, and I'm old enough to remember "innocent until proven Irish" so it's not just POC, then absolutely it should be addressed. But right now there isn't a visible disparity. Hence why I asked about moving forward - obviously the show can't have highlighted something that wasn't a part of the cultural discussion before, but the point still stands - going forward, it will be a red flag as the genie's not going back into the bottle.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Sept 5, 2020 9:58:23 GMT
Unfortunate disparity? Disparity means there is a visible dissonance between A and B. Yaz's only current issue with being in the police is actually showing up for work! If there's a Who story to be told that involves the failings of institutionalised British policing/law enforcement regarding racism, and I'm old enough to remember "innocent until proven Irish" so it's not just POC, then absolutely it should be addressed. But right now there isn't a visible disparity. Hence why I asked about moving forward - obviously the show can't have highlighted something that wasn't a part of the cultural discussion before, but the point still stands - going forward, it will be a red flag as the genie's not going back into the bottle.
But it's always been part of the "cultural discussion" if you are BAME. This is the problem, issues like this seem to be looked at from a white-centric viewpoint, like its only just happened now! Wake up!
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Sept 5, 2020 10:23:01 GMT
Hence why I asked about moving forward - obviously the show can't have highlighted something that wasn't a part of the cultural discussion before, but the point still stands - going forward, it will be a red flag as the genie's not going back into the bottle.
But it's always been part of the "cultural discussion" if you are BAME. This is the problem, issues like this seem to be looked at from a white-centric viewpoint, like its only just happened now! Wake up! You are correct. I should've specified as 'mainstream', as, well, recent history has borne out the lack of action until now (Zimmerman etc).
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Post by mark687 on Sept 5, 2020 11:06:30 GMT
On the one hand good question on the other hand this is Chibnail, whatever we think of the situation and how it should referenced or portrayed on screen, he'll have his own "unique" way.
I mean in series she became a cop because a cop helped her though her dark day, in fact this raises another point dose she think Cops are social workers or law enforcement?
If Doctor Who was a serious drama she'd be suspended for absenteeism and on her return ordered to patrol a BLM or ER March, no matter her personnel feelings.
Regards
mark687
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Post by constonks on Sept 5, 2020 13:40:35 GMT
On the one hand good question on the other hand this is Chibnail, whatever we think of the situation and how it should referenced or portrayed on screen, he'll have his own "unique" way. I mean in series she became a cop because a cop helped her though her dark day, in fact this raises another point dose she think Cops are social workers or law enforcement? If Doctor Who was a serious drama she'd be suspended for absenteeism and on her return ordered to patrol a BLM or ER March, no matter her personnel feelings. Regards mark687 Honestly that sounds like a good fit whenever she goes home... Yaz torn between being the authority like she's meant to be and rebelling against it like she would with the Doctor. Add some aliens trying to stoke the flames for their own ends...
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Post by commonman on Sept 13, 2020 22:36:14 GMT
I think Chibnall is at his best when dealing with serious and heavy subjects (mostly outside of Who) rather than light hearted comedy.
I hope he can channel the kind of writing he had with Broadchurch or Life on Mars if he ever confronts Yaz with the reality of her job and the way it is perceived currently. But to be honest I'm not really expecting it.
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Post by elkawho on Sept 22, 2020 13:31:25 GMT
I kind of have a problem with this topic. (Yeah, late to the party, I know) but there are thousands of law enforcement officers of color. Do they all feel that there is a disparity between their backgrounds and their jobs? Or are they just trying to do their best every day in a job that is incredibly hard and requires tough decisions all the time? Because the vast majority of law enforcement officers are in it for the right reasons. I have friends who are cops, some of color, some white, and every single one whom I've spoken to about this is angry about the few fellow officers who shouldn't be there. A few are near retirement age and are looking to get out because of the climate from the public now. But it's not because of being POC isn't compatible with their job.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Sept 22, 2020 16:15:06 GMT
elkawho, my thinking exactly. I can't see a single reason why Yaz should stop being portrayed as a police officer. In fact, there is probably a greater need now for Chibnall to reestablish her as actually doing some work.
Many people speculated that the show was going to be Broadchurchesque, and that might have been a better way to go. Do an Earthbound UNIT-years scenario but based around the police rather than the army, and show Yaz in her proper context and have adventures brought to the Doctor that way.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 21, 2022 17:49:30 GMT
I kind of have a problem with this topic. (Yeah, late to the party, I know) but there are thousands of law enforcement officers of color. Do they all feel that there is a disparity between their backgrounds and their jobs? Or are they just trying to do their best every day in a job that is incredibly hard and requires tough decisions all the time? Because the vast majority of law enforcement officers are in it for the right reasons. I have friends who are cops, some of color, some white, and every single one whom I've spoken to about this is angry about the few fellow officers who shouldn't be there. A few are near retirement age and are looking to get out because of the climate from the public now. But it's not because of being POC isn't compatible with their job. (Well, consider this so late to the party, they bulldozed the building, set up offices and then reconverted the offices into gentrified apartments that charge 100k per square inch!)
I had thought of returning to this thread every now and then over the years, as I think elka brought up something interesting here, but also because I think my OP was underexplained and vague. Now with the centenary approaching and it looking there's not much more to be done with Yaz, I figured why not: since 2020 and George Floyd, anyone paying attention has seen no shortage of major scandals with American and British police forces (I'll focus more on the latter since that's what's more relevant) relating to systemic racism and sexism, with the last year here in the UK arguably being the ugliest: Sarah Everard's murder, the leaking of emails and whatsup chats of UK police forces displaying a culture and work environment of almost cartoonish bigotry and abuse, the repeated failures of investigations (or lack thereof) into the Conservative government's corruption during the pandemic, and most recently, a horrifying story of a 15 yr old black girl, back in 2020, who was strip searched in her school by cops, with no other adults present, finally being disclosed to the public. The Met, and by extension a lot of the UK's police force, has its image in ruins and it seems unlikely the tide'll turn anytime soon.
While I had taken elka's point that there are obviously POC cops who do love the job and want to help, I think that's kind of missing the wood for the trees (no offense to your friends, of course) in this specific discussion: for many, the police are not a symbol of comfort and security, but rather cruelty, abuse and mistreatment, and while that may not impact us specifically, there is no shortage of people for whom, Yaz is in a contradictory position: an empowering Muslim woman on a kid's adventure show that (whatever can be said about how Chibnall actually used her in his three series) isn't yet another jihadi or abuse victim like they are so often portrayed, and also a member of a major organization whose history with people like her is increasingly being displayed as shaky, to say nothing of more of the history coming to light. Because Chibnall's era started out endeavouring to be far more socially conscious and topical, it was always going to leave itself open to these kinds of criticisms, that was always the risk if something changed is social attitudes, and by opting to pull away from that in favour of cosmic adventures like Flux, now is stuck with a part of Yaz's identity that, regardless of individual opinion, has particular connotations for the groups she ostensibly represents and speaks to. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic in saying that those kids who watch the show now and grow up one day to be our next writers, creators, essayists and historians of the franchise may have a complicated relationship to Yaz because of the confluence of series and cultural events. That in turn could well inspire them to address that dissonance in their own articles and, more importantly, stories, since (through what was a really bad run of luck for him dogging his whole era, with unfortunate timings/unforseen events impacting the show) Chibnall didn't or couldn't by the time he left.
Mandip herself will be fine, I think, legacy-wise: she will still be respected for breaking the barrier in the first place. Obviously the actress is not the fictional character. Nonetheless, what started out as clearly a well-intended gesture, something to inspire and aspire children from a particular background, well, changes meaning because that's how society interacts with art. We bring our our POVs and contexts to it.
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