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Post by timegirl on Sept 9, 2020 1:00:55 GMT
Doctor Who has many different parallels with all different fairytales ( so much so there’s a Timelord Fairytale Book) . What parallels have you noticed between certain fairytales and Doctor who, and would you want them to be explored more and if so how would you go about it? Also what parallels with fairytales would you like to be referenced in Doctor Who that haven’t already been? My favorite fairytale parallel is 11/12 and Clara and Beauty and the Beast: When Clara first got to know the Doctor in his eleventh incarnation he was youthful looking, easygoing, and more traditionally attractive but then when he regenerated into 12 he became older, and harsher looking, with a fiercer personality. Even 12’s new life granted by the Timelord’s is a bit like the curse the fairy put on the prince by the fairy and Clara is very much like Belle in the Disney version in that she’s an intelligent educated young woman who longs for adventure and excitement. Clara didn’t know if she could trust him or want to stay with him and 12 felt self conscious thinking she would reject him in his older harsher form but then like Belle she eventually stayed with him and taught him how to be more human again and they became closer to each other than ever before.12 didn’t exactly transform into a handsome prince but his looks and more importantly his personality did soften over time from her influences. Sometimes I wonder if this parallel was intentional on Moffat’s part or if it was purely coincidental, but I have noticed that there are multiple parallels ( particularly with the Disney version). Speaking of the Disney version I watched rewatched it recently and there are actually many individual facial expressions, shots, and line readings that Belle and the Beast have that are almost identical to ones 12 and Clara have! Even Clara’s theme sounds very similar to “Something There ”: Clara’s theme: youtu.be/IqAblY4tWJoSomething there: youtu.be/nwZEcdBMLLUEven though this parallel has not been addressed explicitly on the tv series I would love for big finish and expanded media to do something with 12 and Clara’s parallel to Beauty and the Beast! I even have an idea for how a storyline based on this parallel could work ( but am keeping it to myself for now 😉). Has anyone else ever noticed this parallel between 12 and Clara and Beauty and the beast? Some interesting articles on the subject of Doctor Who and Fairytales: www.blogtorwho.com/once-upon-a-time-lord-fairytales-in-doctor-who/This article from blogtor who goes into both fairytale parallels with actual fairytales from our real world and the broader fairytale aspects of Doctor Who such as the episode “It takes you away” and the 11 as the Raggedy Man and the legend of the Hybrid. doctorwhowatch.com/2015/11/09/doctor-who-clara-is-like-a-disney-character/This Doctor Who watch article is an interesting examination of Clara through the lens of a Disney fairytale character. Comparing particular her early appearances to that of Mary Poppins due to her time as a nanny and the mystery surrounding her. They also pointed out a comparison to Belle in her relationship both with 11 and 12 and pointed out the similarities between “Clara’s Theme” and “Something There”. What do you guys think of these? Do you see these parallels too? Are there any other fairytale parallels that you have noticed? |
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Post by timegirl on Sept 11, 2020 16:48:27 GMT
Anyways what fairytale parallels have you noticed in Doctor Who?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 17:18:45 GMT
Anyways what fairytale parallels have you noticed in Doctor Who? Are we allowed to use the word Fairy? It isn’t PC 😉 |
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Post by timegirl on Sept 11, 2020 17:24:49 GMT
Anyways what fairytale parallels have you noticed in Doctor Who? Are we allowed to use the word Fairy? It isn’t PC 😉 Ha ha😉 |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 17:27:06 GMT
Are we allowed to use the word Fairy? It isn’t PC 😉 Ha ha😉 Me and Captain Jack we were lonely that’s all am saying.... but the whole Amy arc was pretty much fairytale wasn’t it Prince or Centurion waits around a thousand years for his damsel. |
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Post by timegirl on Sept 11, 2020 17:39:27 GMT
Me and Captain Jack we were lonely that’s all am saying.... but the whole Amy arc was pretty much fairytale wasn’t it Prince or Centurion waits around a thousand years for his damsel. Very true and Amy is also a bit like Wendy to 11’s Peter Pan |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 17:44:11 GMT
Me and Captain Jack we were lonely that’s all am saying.... but the whole Amy arc was pretty much fairytale wasn’t it Prince or Centurion waits around a thousand years for his damsel. Very true and Amy is also a bit like Wendy to 11’s Peter Pan Peter Moffat very much alluded to the fairytale nature of Doctor Who am hoping he starts writing for Matt and Karen if they ever come aboard BF because I will really love the combination of the three as he is an brilliant storyteller and I know is capable of so much greater stuff now he doesn’t have the production weight on his shoulders |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 17:45:14 GMT
Me and Captain Jack we were lonely that’s all am saying.... but the whole Amy arc was pretty much fairytale wasn’t it Prince or Centurion waits around a thousand years for his damsel. Very true and Amy is also a bit like Wendy to 11’s Peter Pan Well best keep Matt out of the green tights it’s a family program |
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Post by timegirl on Sept 11, 2020 17:51:46 GMT
Very true and Amy is also a bit like Wendy to 11’s Peter Pan Peter Moffat very much alluded to the fairytale nature of Doctor Who am hoping he starts writing for Matt and Karen if they ever come aboard BF because I will really love the combination of the three as he is an brilliant storyteller and I know is capable of so much greater stuff now he doesn’t have the production weight on his shoulders Same and I hope he comes and writes for Peter and Jenna if they come on board for BF too🤞 |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 17:56:43 GMT
Peter Moffat very much alluded to the fairytale nature of Doctor Who am hoping he starts writing for Matt and Karen if they ever come aboard BF because I will really love the combination of the three as he is an brilliant storyteller and I know is capable of so much greater stuff now he doesn’t have the production weight on his shoulders Same and I hope he comes and writes for Peter and Jenna if they come on board for BF too🤞 Well am sure Mr Dorney will serve all the teams well too as will most of the BF writers something magical happens when they get their hands on the characters but must admit it’s Amy and Matt for me ever since Amy said “are you shooshing me” and the “we are Mr Grumphy today” she hooked me |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 17:57:32 GMT
Ps am sure someone will get to the original questions you asked probably not me....am having a whisky 🤪😂😉
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Post by timegirl on Sept 11, 2020 18:04:14 GMT
Ps am sure someone will get to the original questions you asked probably not me....am having a whisky 🤪😂😉 Teehee, no worries 😄😉 |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2020 18:06:11 GMT
Ps am sure someone will get to the original questions you asked probably not me....am having a whisky 🤪😂😉 Teehee, no worries 😄😉 Number three whisky…fewer than I had lol |
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shutupbanks
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There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 11, 2020 23:52:06 GMT
Anyways what fairytale parallels have you noticed in Doctor Who? Are we allowed to use the word Fairy? It isn’t PC 😉 PC isn’t a fairy: he’s the Twelfth Doctor ... I’ll get my coat. |
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Post by timegirl on Sept 11, 2020 23:56:11 GMT
Are we allowed to use the word Fairy? It isn’t PC 😉 PC isn’t a fairy: he’s the Twelfth Doctor ... I’ll get my coat. 🤣 You put a very interesting picture in my mind !😎🎸🧚🏻♂️🤣 |
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 11, 2020 23:59:34 GMT
River’s comment about wizards in fairytales always being the Doctor rings pretty true here. It’s clear that The Moff was running a clear fairytale agenda during his time, pretty explicitly during Matt Smith’s time as the Doctor.
In the Classic run, it was something that I noticed with the McCoy Doctor: a lot of his stories had him interacting with fairy tales (Fenric, the gods of Ragnarok, Arthur) while previous incarnations would have commented on similarities or written them off as a coincidence (Underworld references a lot of Greek myth, seeing as it’s a retelling of the story of Jason). But then, the show has always riffed off classic literature, most obviously during the Hinchcliffe/Williams eras.
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Post by timegirl on Sept 12, 2020 0:12:57 GMT
River’s comment about wizards in fairytales always being the Doctor rings pretty true here. It’s clear that The Moff was running a clear fairytale agenda during his time, pretty explicitly during Matt Smith’s time as the Doctor. In the Classic run, it was something that I noticed with the McCoy Doctor: a lot of his stories had him interacting with fairy tales (Fenric, the gods of Ragnarok, Arthur) while previous incarnations would have commented on similarities or written them off as a coincidence (Underworld references a lot of Greek myth, seeing as it’s a retelling of the story of Jason). But then, the show has always riffed off classic literature, most obviously during the Hinchcliffe/Williams eras. That’s very true! The Matt Smith was pretty easy to spot, that’s interesting with the slightly less obvious McCoy 🤔 Do you think 7 has interacted with fairytales as much on BF as tv? I wonder if that was an intentional choice for 7’s era to have him encounter many fairytales or just a coincidence? Similarly, I am (as I said earlier in this thread) also wondering if the less obviously fairytale 12 and Clara were deliberately meant to evoke Beauty and the beast on Moffat’s part or the similarities just a coincidence? |
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,661
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 12, 2020 0:24:19 GMT
River’s comment about wizards in fairytales always being the Doctor rings pretty true here. It’s clear that The Moff was running a clear fairytale agenda during his time, pretty explicitly during Matt Smith’s time as the Doctor. In the Classic run, it was something that I noticed with the McCoy Doctor: a lot of his stories had him interacting with fairy tales (Fenric, the gods of Ragnarok, Arthur) while previous incarnations would have commented on similarities or written them off as a coincidence (Underworld references a lot of Greek myth, seeing as it’s a retelling of the story of Jason). But then, the show has always riffed off classic literature, most obviously during the Hinchcliffe/Williams eras. That’s very true! The Matt Smith was pretty easy to spot, that’s interesting with the slightly less obvious McCoy 🤔 Do you think 7 has interacted with fairytales as much on BF as tv? I wonder if that was an intentional choice for 7’s era to have him encounter many fairytales or just a coincidence? Similarly, I am (as I said earlier in this thread) also wondering if the less obviously fairytale 12 and Clara were deliberately meant to evoke Beauty and the beast on Moffat’s part or the similarities just a coincidence? I’m not sure about McCoy and fairytales on BF, although he does seem to be more into the shady/ nebulous areas of history than his other incarnations. With 12 and Clara, I got more of a morality tale vibe off them along the lines of “don’t meet your heroes” mashed up with “don’t look too long into the abyss.” Clara so wanted to recapture the magic (there’s that word again) she had with 11 that she ended up becoming like him. I think she had a combative/addictive relationship with 12 but by the opening of Death in Heaven (that wonderful “do you think I care for you so little...” line) their friendship/ love and trust had reasserted itself over the codependency they had. Which is making me feel that Beauty and the Beast may not be too far off, though I’m not sure whois who, character-wise. |
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Post by timegirl on Sept 12, 2020 0:30:03 GMT
That’s very true! The Matt Smith was pretty easy to spot, that’s interesting with the slightly less obvious McCoy 🤔 Do you think 7 has interacted with fairytales as much on BF as tv? I wonder if that was an intentional choice for 7’s era to have him encounter many fairytales or just a coincidence? Similarly, I am (as I said earlier in this thread) also wondering if the less obviously fairytale 12 and Clara were deliberately meant to evoke Beauty and the beast on Moffat’s part or the similarities just a coincidence? I’m not sure about McCoy and fairytales on BF, although he does seem to be more into the shady/ nebulous areas of history than his other incarnations. With 12 and Clara, I got more of a morality tale vibe off them along the lines of “don’t meet your heroes” mashed up with “don’t look too long into the abyss.” Clara so wanted to recapture the magic (there’s that word again) she had with 11 that she ended up becoming like him. I think she had a combative/addictive relationship with 12 but by the opening of Death in Heaven (that wonderful “do you think I care for you so little...” line) their friendship/ love and trust had reasserted itself over the codependency they had. Which is making me feel that Beauty and the Beast may not be too far off, though I’m not sure whois who, character-wise. Interesting 🤔 🙂 I’m curious by what you mean not sure who is who, character wise? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2020 2:42:03 GMT
River’s comment about wizards in fairytales always being the Doctor rings pretty true here. It’s clear that The Moff was running a clear fairytale agenda during his time, pretty explicitly during Matt Smith’s time as the Doctor. In the Classic run, it was something that I noticed with the McCoy Doctor: a lot of his stories had him interacting with fairy tales (Fenric, the gods of Ragnarok, Arthur) while previous incarnations would have commented on similarities or written them off as a coincidence (Underworld references a lot of Greek myth, seeing as it’s a retelling of the story of Jason). But then, the show has always riffed off classic literature, most obviously during the Hinchcliffe/Williams eras. It's kind of interesting what we mean by "fairytale", isn't it? The Seventh Doctor feels, at times, like a myth wandering through other mythologies. The novelisation of The Curse of Fenric, for instance, tells a story-within-a-story of a djinn, Aboo-Fenran, terrorising a Great City and its rulers; a Traveller challenging it to a game of traps over forty days and forty nights. A tale that, in its telling, bears some resemblance to the folk stories of One Thousand and One Nights. The emphasis of Fenric shifts, as the flask moves through various cultures and societies, but never its underlying nature. Not unlike the Doctor in their various appearances. Underworld's an interesting example as from our perspective (and the TARDIS travellers), we're encountering the myth of "Jason and the Argonauts". From the perspective of the Minyans aboard their spacecraft, they're confronted with the Gods from their own mythology through the Doctor. It's a regular force in Leela's stories, in particular. The Horror of Fang Rock is a superstition turned terrifying reality, the Doctor confronts a childhood horror in The Image of the Fendahl and, outside of Underworld, the Doctor (or, at least, his image) accidentally became a deity in The Face of Evil. A saviour to the Tesh and a force of evil to the Sevateem. In the classic series, the fairytale aspect has leaned more towards the original Brothers Grimm or Hans Christian Anderson interpretations than their Disney counterparts. |
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