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Post by themeddlingmonk on Sept 27, 2020 18:55:45 GMT
I kind of get all the critisism levelled against Helen... she still gets some great moments to shine. She carries the story with the Eleven when locked up with the Candyman and even figures out how to fly the TARDIS in the second Ravenous set. That Christmas story basically had her as the star because she figured out the solution. I think the issue is, Helen is used as some kind of anchor to the "real" world. This is exemplified in Stranded where she is "the closest thing to a native". While the Doctor and Liv are "space-people", she is a "normal" human closest to our own reality. This could be used as a bridge for the audience, but I think it has been handled clumsily. Rather and being an asset, it kind of holds the character back. In Stranded, her role is vital, but pointing this out by Liv and the Doctor also highlights that flaw even more. Stranded is maybe a very good place to examine this- no wonder it feels so jarring for quite a few people. After all, Doctor Who is all about "space men", and just having normal people doing normal things is going to make them fade into the background. I think the intention is there to use her the right way, but it seems not quite clear how to do it. It is a bit like Yaz and her police training- only in the last few episodes of series 12, Yaz is taking more charge and is growing into the niche she is supposed to occupy. Helen to me is the ideal companion and for me has eclipsed Liz she is the closest thing as to be identifiable to me am not super intelligent or a space surgeon or have any idea of quantum physics,I mean look how great her and Missy were together,so why not her and MCGANN we still have a gap of when Liv was on Kaldor so,it would be interesting to know how her and McGann got on on their solo adventures They just jumped forward a year in time. |
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 27, 2020 19:06:14 GMT
Helen to me is the ideal companion and for me has eclipsed Liz she is the closest thing as to be identifiable to me am not super intelligent or a space surgeon or have any idea of quantum physics,I mean look how great her and Missy were together,so why not her and MCGANN we still have a gap of when Liv was on Kaldor so,it would be interesting to know how her and McGann got on on their solo adventures They just jumped forward a year in time. Or did they? Causality is right, there could be a gap there to be exploited.
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Post by Kestrel on Sept 28, 2020 3:13:33 GMT
I suspect they may have intentionally set things up for an 8th Doctor/Helen set of stories just in case they had any issues getting Nicola Walker scheduled. Especially if, as I think they should, they're already considering how and when and why Liv and Helen will end up exiting the TARDIS. Obviously something has to happen to them in order for the Doctor to be traveling solo in The Starship of Theseus. Assuming, of course, they don't want to make Liv and Helen the Doctor's last "normal" companions before the Time War.
Also, isn't Helen supposed to be really smart? Maybe not a genius, but certainly far more capable and accomplished than most? This is kind of what I mean when I say she's not used very well: she's a brilliant person stuck in stories that ask very little of her.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 28, 2020 7:36:27 GMT
I suspect they may have intentionally set things up for an 8th Doctor/Helen set of stories just in case they had any issues getting Nicola Walker scheduled. Especially if, as I think they should, they're already considering how and when and why Liv and Helen will end up exiting the TARDIS. Obviously something has to happen to them in order for the Doctor to be traveling solo in The Starship of Theseus. Assuming, of course, they don't want to make Liv and Helen the Doctor's last "normal" companions before the Time War. Also, isn't Helen supposed to be really smart? Maybe not a genius, but certainly far more capable and accomplished than most? This is kind of what I mean when I say she's not used very well: she's a brilliant person stuck in stories that ask very little of her. Agreed, that is possible or better very likely.
Well, nobody can say how BF will be doing over the next few years with all these things going on in the world. Who knows how long they will go on making these stories. In the worst case scenario, Liv and Helen just stay on Earth after Stranded or get killed off on a foreign planet and 8 sails off into the Time War. If we are lucky, there is time and financial security for another Doctor/ companion pairing.
Yes, Helen is very smart. She can fly the TARDIS! Not even Liv can do that. That makes Helen a VERY special companion and that is one of the reasons that makes the Ravenous Christmas story so awesome.
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Post by Kestrel on Sept 28, 2020 9:20:48 GMT
Oh man, I adored that Christmas story. Easily the best Christmas story Doctor Who has ever done, I think--and wildly ambitious. Even in spite of the very-silly-sounding evil elf things. Though in general, Ravenous does have a bit of a villain problem. Who thought evil space clowns were a good idea? We need to talk.
Currently it looks like BF's proceeding with recording more or less normally, which is fine, but I do hope they take advantage of this opportunity to do more "bottle episode" stories -- when you only have a few characters to work with, even just two or three, it forces the scripts to be honed to a laser-focus -- rather than just "business as usual."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2020 9:23:50 GMT
Oh man, I adored that Christmas story. Easily the best Christmas story Doctor Who has ever done, I think--and wildly ambitious. Even in spite of the very-silly-sounding evil elf things. Though in general, Ravenous does have a bit of a villain problem. Who thought evil space clowns were a good idea? We need to talk.Currently it looks like BF's proceeding with recording more or less normally, which is fine, but I do hope they take advantage of this opportunity to do more "bottle episode" stories -- when you only have a few characters to work with, even just two or three, it forces the scripts to be honed to a laser-focus -- rather than just "business as usual." Evil space clowns.....are awesome i just don’t think the BF art department really captured them at their best they need to create more i bloody love imagining them Glad everyone’s agreeing on Helens potential 😍 |
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Post by Kestrel on Oct 2, 2020 1:16:50 GMT
Man, I dunno. IT just seems like such a weird decision. (That typo was purely accidental, but I'm gonna have to leave it.) Like... coulrophobia is certainly a thing that exists, but... it's pretty rare, ya' know? To then say that it's due to something like a genetic memory, and universal across all of space and time, because of our collective "memory" of the Ravenous? Eh... that's a bit of a leap. Too much of a leap, for me. Though perhaps I'd probably feel differently if I were afraid of clowns. Personally I spent a great deal of time thinking of this: www.smbc-comics.com/comic/clown-humor |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2020 2:45:05 GMT
Man, I dunno. IT just seems like such a weird decision. (That typo was purely accidental, but I'm gonna have to leave it.) Like... coulrophobia is certainly a thing that exists, but... it's pretty rare, ya' know? To then say that it's due to something like a genetic memory, and universal across all of space and time, because of our collective "memory" of the Ravenous? Eh... that's a bit of a leap. Too much of a leap, for me. Though perhaps I'd probably feel differently if I were afraid of clowns. Personally I spent a great deal of time thinking of this: www.smbc-comics.com/comic/clown-humorIT is ok 😂 |
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Post by aztec on Oct 16, 2020 18:59:00 GMT
So...have we had any hints/news about Big Finish planning anything special for McGann's 20th anniversary at Big Finish/25 years since the TV Movie?
I think a 2nd Further Adventures of Lucie Miller was confirmed (or at least definitely something they want to do when the schedules line up) and isn't McGann supposed to be in the 3rd Charlotte Pollard boxset when that materialsies?
Other than that, maybe a proper rematch/boxset opposite Eric Roberts Master?
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Oct 16, 2020 19:41:19 GMT
So...have we had any hints/news about Big Finish planning anything special for McGann's 20th anniversary at Big Finish/25 years since the TV Movie? I think a 2nd Further Adventures of Lucie Miller was confirmed (or at least definitely something they want to do when the schedules line up) and isn't McGann supposed to be in the 3rd Charlotte Pollard boxset when that materialsies? Other than that, maybe a proper rematch/boxset opposite Eric Roberts Master? I believe Briggs mentioned in a podcast that something with Charley was in development that wasn’t Charlotte Pollard Series 3. |
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Post by theillusiveman on Oct 16, 2020 23:56:40 GMT
So...have we had any hints/news about Big Finish planning anything special for McGann's 20th anniversary at Big Finish/25 years since the TV Movie? I think a 2nd Further Adventures of Lucie Miller was confirmed (or at least definitely something they want to do when the schedules line up) and isn't McGann supposed to be in the 3rd Charlotte Pollard boxset when that materialsies? Other than that, maybe a proper rematch/boxset opposite Eric Roberts Master? Well The Podcast said there was something planned alongside 8's appearance in Charley Pollard Vol 3 Nick Did mention that if Sheridan and Paul were free they would do more Lucie Miller Stories
I Think the secret project is The Comic Strip Adaptations with The 8ith Doctor in Vortex Magazine a couple of issues ago Nick mentioned that he was chatting to Alan Barnes about Izzy Then we had Izzy's Voice Actress appearing in Restoration of The Daleks which seems a bit too close to be a coincidence and knowing BF's way of Recording in advance (example: James Drefyus recording three stories Home Guard/4DA and Destination Wars as The master in one studio session)
so i think its highly likely that Comic Strip Adaptations Vol 2 might be the lucky winner
Sadly i dont think we can get a rematch between 8 and The Roberts Master given how Day of The Master's story sets it up being the first time they meet and well the ending squashes any chance of further meetings  |
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Post by grinch on Oct 17, 2020 0:04:16 GMT
So...have we had any hints/news about Big Finish planning anything special for McGann's 20th anniversary at Big Finish/25 years since the TV Movie? I think a 2nd Further Adventures of Lucie Miller was confirmed (or at least definitely something they want to do when the schedules line up) and isn't McGann supposed to be in the 3rd Charlotte Pollard boxset when that materialsies? Other than that, maybe a proper rematch/boxset opposite Eric Roberts Master? Well The Podcast said there was something planned alongside 8's appearance in Charley Pollard Vol 3 Nick Did mention that if Sheridan and Paul were free they would do more Lucie Miller Stories
I Think the secret project is The Comic Strip Adaptations with The 8ith Doctor in Vortex Magazine a couple of issues ago Nick mentioned that he was chatting to Alan Barnes about Izzy Then we had Izzy's Voice Actress appearing in Restoration of The Daleks which seems a bit too close to be a coincidence and knowing BF's way of Recording in advance (example: James Drefyus recording three stories Home Guard/4DA and Destination Wars as The master in one studio session)
so i think its highly likely that Comic Strip Adaptations Vol 2 might be the lucky winner
Sadly i dont think we can get a rematch between 8 and The Roberts Master given how Day of The Master's story sets it up being the first time they meet and well the ending squashes any chance of further meetings Might just be me but if more comic strip adaptations were commissioned I’d much rather see them do Sixth and Frobisher. Eighth already has a lot of material at the moment and I’d much rather see how they would bring to life such visual stories as Voyager for example. Just my opinion though. |
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Post by Kestrel on Oct 25, 2020 6:20:48 GMT
I'd really like to see a 6/7 team-up. Big Finish has teased (finally) giving the 6th Doctor a proper regeneration story, which might be a good place to put such a crossover--a way to kind of force the 6th Doctor to reconcile the man he is by contrasting himself to the man who only exists due to a desperate desire to be someone -else.- I dunno. I think it could be interesting.
BF has also hinted at more Time War stories, so I wouldn't count out more 8DTW any time soon, though perhaps they're more likely to do something special for the anniversary. A special Charley story, maybe?
Or, ooh, here's an idea that will never happen: now that they've got Eric Roberts on board, perhaps they could simple re-do the -entire- TV movie? Hell, they could do one set that is the 6th Doctor versus the prior Master (who is... McQueen's, I think?) and then a follow-up set redoing the movie, so 8th Doctor v. Roberts Master, + Grace. Which could even segue into an 8th Doctor + Grace range, if McGann feels like revisiting the younger, more optimistic version of his character.
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Post by theillusiveman on Oct 25, 2020 7:01:50 GMT
I'd really like to see a 6/7 team-up. Big Finish has teased (finally) giving the 6th Doctor a proper regeneration story, which might be a good place to put such a crossover--a way to kind of force the 6th Doctor to reconcile the man he is by contrasting himself to the man who only exists due to a desperate desire to be someone -else.- I dunno. I think it could be interesting. BF has also hinted at more Time War stories, so I wouldn't count out more 8DTW any time soon, though perhaps they're more likely to do something special for the anniversary. A special Charley story, maybe? Or, ooh, here's an idea that will never happen: now that they've got Eric Roberts on board, perhaps they could simple re-do the -entire- TV movie? Hell, they could do one set that is the 6th Doctor versus the prior Master (who is... McQueen's, I think?) and then a follow-up set redoing the movie, so 8th Doctor v. Roberts Master, + Grace. Which could even segue into an 8th Doctor + Grace range, if McGann feels like revisiting the younger, more optimistic version of his character. Why would anyone want to remake the TV Movie? It’s fine as it is Besides legal reasons Grace and Chang Lee can’t be in it (well technically none of the characters bar The Roberts Master and 7&8 can’t be used) Besides I’ve heard that Paul doesn’t want to revisit the younger 8 days |
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Post by Kestrel on Oct 30, 2020 8:53:41 GMT
How fine it is or isn't is (very) debatable, though I imagine the affirmative would be a bit of an uphill argument given the facts that's it's a failed pilot and sits currently at pretty unfortunate ratings on imdb and rotten tomatoes (6.4 and 48% respectively). If you want to argue that the TV movie was secretly great and the consensus opinions about it are wrong, you're free to do it, but for the purposes of this thread I'll simply say (again, I think?) that there's good reason for Big Finish to redo it: the movie absolutely fails to deliver an adequate 7th Doctor regeneration story, and Big Finish has expressed an intent to rectify this; and it very poorly uses its characters, especially the Master.
Redoing the movie in audio format would be an opportunity, to my mind an irrestiable opportunity, to take the deeply flawed execution of the TV movie's premise and improve it. And any rights issues with Chang Lee or Grace could easily be circumvented by using different characters... not like they matter much overall, given they're not used anywhere else.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2020 9:07:43 GMT
How fine it is or isn't is (very) debatable, though I imagine the affirmative would be a bit of an uphill argument given the facts that's it's a failed pilot and sits currently at pretty unfortunate ratings on imdb and rotten tomatoes (6.4 and 48% respectively). If you want to argue that the TV movie was secretly great and the consensus opinions about it are wrong, you're free to do it, but for the purposes of this thread I'll simply say (again, I think?) that there's good reason for Big Finish to redo it: the movie absolutely fails to deliver an adequate 7th Doctor regeneration story, and Big Finish has expressed an intent to rectify this; and it very poorly uses its characters, especially the Master. Redoing the movie in audio format would be an opportunity, to my mind an irrestiable opportunity, to take the deeply flawed execution of the TV movie's premise and improve it. And any rights issues with Chang Lee or Grace could easily be circumvented by using different characters... not like they matter much overall, given they're not used anywhere else. You're in luck (after a fashion), Gary Russell wrote a novelisation of the story that was turned into an audiobook read by Paul McGann. I'm not sure where you'd be able to find it these days, but a version of it exists in the Tales from the TARDIS: Volume Two collection from the BBC. It might be possible to get from Amazon or Dymocks. I did a three-episode recut of it as a thought exercise not too long ago that I posted up in text-form on this thread here. It's got a few nice moments that tend to get swamped by some gaudiness that feels down to the directing/editing and repeating information that the story delivers already in a much defter form. The main niggle with the structure, I found, was that it's actually a mystery story that we get the solution to before the set-up. Rearrange it and it can work quite well. |
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Post by Kestrel on Oct 30, 2020 9:23:57 GMT
Ooh, very interesting stuff! Though I surprise myself, looking at those GIFs: I see McGann from the movie and think to myself, "he's not the 8th Doctor--he's too young!"
Overall a pretty good edit that fixes some of the films more baffling decisions. An episodic format definitely makes sense, and not just for the reasons you gave. Doctor Who is effectively a show about a Trickster archetype invading *other* stories, and in an episodic for,at you could introduce that concept by framing each episode in a different genre. Mystery, romance, adventure, etc.
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