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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 26, 2020 9:35:58 GMT
Re listening to The Life Boat and The Death Boat and Day of The Master audios i noticed one thing that confuses me
is why doesn't The Master use the death morphant abilities he had in The TV Movie? like the paralyzing venom, the ability to take over peoples minds
did the eye of harmony restore him but nerfed his extra powers?
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Sept 26, 2020 9:37:35 GMT
Re listening to The Life Boat and The Death Boat and Day of The Master audios i noticed one thing that confuses me
is why doesn't The Master use the death morphant abilities he had in The TV Movie? like the paralyzing venom, the ability to take over peoples minds
did the eye of harmony restore him but nerfed his extra powers?
The same reason the Doctor's half human lineage is never mentioned, they just dropped certain things that were added just for the tv movie.
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Post by grinch on Sept 26, 2020 9:48:33 GMT
Could always make the argument I suppose that this is only a host body and as such a lot of his abilities have faded over time. Bruce’s was relatively fresh when the Morphant took it over and I’d imagine it’s now wearing a bit thin.
That or he just didn’t feel the need to spit venom and the like.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2020 7:08:38 GMT
Re listening to The Life Boat and The Death Boat and Day of The Master audios i noticed one thing that confuses me
is why doesn't The Master use the death morphant abilities he had in The TV Movie? like the paralyzing venom, the ability to take over peoples minds
did the eye of harmony restore him but nerfed his extra powers?
The same reason the Doctor's half human lineage is never mentioned, they just dropped certain things that were added just for the tv movie. I still think that half human lineage will resurface at some point and why not-change gender-change race-alternate timelines-rewritten timelines anything is and was pans could be possible
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Oct 6, 2020 7:38:09 GMT
Re listening to The Life Boat and The Death Boat and Day of The Master audios i noticed one thing that confuses me
is why doesn't The Master use the death morphant abilities he had in The TV Movie? like the paralyzing venom, the ability to take over peoples minds
did the eye of harmony restore him but nerfed his extra powers?
Because, in that story, he’s not the Master - he’s a fragment of the Master in a human body. Day of the Master explains it best, he’s part of the trapped Master who needs to be be re-trapped in order for him to escape as the gas formed Zombeevers, who ends who SPOILER at the end of DotM.
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Post by theillusiveman on Oct 6, 2020 8:52:10 GMT
Re listening to The Life Boat and The Death Boat and Day of The Master audios i noticed one thing that confuses me
is why doesn't The Master use the death morphant abilities he had in The TV Movie? like the paralyzing venom, the ability to take over peoples minds
did the eye of harmony restore him but nerfed his extra powers?
Because, in that story, he’s not the Master - he’s a fragment of the Master in a human body. Day of the Master explains it best, he’s part of the trapped Master who needs to be be re-trapped in order for him to escape as the gas formed Zombeevers, who ends who SPOILER at the end of DotM. Wait i thought that was a fan theory? besides makes no sense
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Oct 6, 2020 9:52:35 GMT
Because, in that story, he’s not the Master - he’s a fragment of the Master in a human body. Day of the Master explains it best, he’s part of the trapped Master who needs to be be re-trapped in order for him to escape as the gas formed Zombeevers, who ends who SPOILER at the end of DotM. Wait i thought that was a fan theory? besides makes no sense
Which bit? The subplot for the Masters in DOTM is that {Spoiler} In order for Missy and the War Master to exist, the Zombeevers needs to regenerate. Enter stage left Artron’s brainprint.
EXCEPT Bruce is the Master’s essence trapped in a humsn body, seperated from the Eye of Harmony.
What happens next is Bruce is mindwiped, sent back into the Eye to escape as the Zombeevers vapour, who ends up on the Planet of Dust, gets killed and has his future selves give him his new cycle of regenerations, in order to first become “Hello You” anf later War, Harold Saxon and Missy.
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Post by theillusiveman on Oct 6, 2020 12:28:12 GMT
Wait i thought that was a fan theory? besides makes no sense
Which bit? The subplot for the Masters in DOTM is that {Spoiler} In order for Missy and the War Master to exist, the Zombeevers needs to regenerate. Enter stage left Artron’s brainprint.
EXCEPT Bruce is the Master’s essence trapped in a humsn body, seperated from the Eye of Harmony.
What happens next is Bruce is mindwiped, sent back into the Eye to escape as the Zombeevers vapour, who ends up on the Planet of Dust, gets killed and has his future selves give him his new cycle of regenerations, in order to first become “Hello You” anf later War, Harold Saxon and Missy. While The "Bruce" Master is mind wiped (by the dumbest way possible) by Missy but he isn't sent back into the eye of harmony, The War Master and Missy throw him into the time vortex (likely where the events of the upcoming Master! box set will likely play out with Vienna and The Master surviving the vortex and finding his way on Earth) i find the whole set up to Mastermind (frankly one of Big Finish's worst mistakes) and Macqueen convoluted-(doesn't even really add up with Dark Eyes 2's explanation for The Masters Resurrection but hey i stopped caring at that point)
Personally my head canon is the Bruce Master in Day of The Master was a clone (at least explains why he seems out of character and second fiddle to the other masters) and that the real Roberts Master was off somewhere else
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Post by sherlock on Oct 6, 2020 12:32:13 GMT
Which bit? The subplot for the Masters in DOTM is that {Spoiler} In order for Missy and the War Master to exist, the Zombeevers needs to regenerate. Enter stage left Artron’s brainprint.
EXCEPT Bruce is the Master’s essence trapped in a humsn body, seperated from the Eye of Harmony.
What happens next is Bruce is mindwiped, sent back into the Eye to escape as the Zombeevers vapour, who ends up on the Planet of Dust, gets killed and has his future selves give him his new cycle of regenerations, in order to first become “Hello You” anf later War, Harold Saxon and Missy. While The "Bruce" Master is mind wiped (by the dumbest way possible) by Missy but he isn't sent back into the eye of harmony, The War Master and Missy throw him into the time vortex (likely where the events of the upcoming Master! box set will likely play out with Vienna and The Master surviving the vortex and finding his way on Earth) i find the whole set up to Mastermind (frankly one of Big Finish's worst mistakes) and Macqueen convoluted-(doesn't even really add up with Dark Eyes 2's explanation for The Masters Resurrection but hey i stopped caring at that point)
Personally my head canon is the Bruce Master in Day of The Master was a clone (at least explains why he seems out of character and second fiddle to the other masters) and that the real Roberts Master was off somewhere else
Iirc Planet of Dust had the Master mention how he previously got drawn back into the Eye, so unless Master! picks up immediately after Day I’d assume the intent is the Master was pulled back into the Eye after being thrown into the Time Vortex. Personally I speculate him being thrown into the Vortex led to the events of The Glorious Dead which ends with him being imprisoned somewhere unspecified by Kroton, which could be the Eye again. He then escapes as per Mastermind. I suspect Master! will be bridging the Roberts Master’s appearances in Lifeboat and Day.
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Post by lorcan444 on Oct 6, 2020 12:54:06 GMT
Which bit? The subplot for the Masters in DOTM is that {Spoiler} In order for Missy and the War Master to exist, the Zombeevers needs to regenerate. Enter stage left Artron’s brainprint.
EXCEPT Bruce is the Master’s essence trapped in a humsn body, seperated from the Eye of Harmony.
What happens next is Bruce is mindwiped, sent back into the Eye to escape as the Zombeevers vapour, who ends up on the Planet of Dust, gets killed and has his future selves give him his new cycle of regenerations, in order to first become “Hello You” anf later War, Harold Saxon and Missy. While The "Bruce" Master is mind wiped (by the dumbest way possible) by Missy but he isn't sent back into the eye of harmony, The War Master and Missy throw him into the time vortex (likely where the events of the upcoming Master! box set will likely play out with Vienna and The Master surviving the vortex and finding his way on Earth) i find the whole set up to Mastermind (frankly one of Big Finish's worst mistakes) and Macqueen convoluted-(doesn't even really add up with Dark Eyes 2's explanation for The Masters Resurrection but hey i stopped caring at that point)
Personally my head canon is the Bruce Master in Day of The Master was a clone (at least explains why he seems out of character and second fiddle to the other masters) and that the real Roberts Master was off somewhere else
I assumed that the Robert's master originally escaped the eye of harmony as shown in the lifeboat and the death boat and once he gets sent back into the time vortex in DOTM that's when he escapes in the story mastermind. I thought that the mindwipe and throwing him into the vortex again was a way to reconcile mastermind and the lifeboat and the death boat.
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Post by x2magneto on Oct 6, 2020 14:20:29 GMT
Chalk this under over thinking. No disrespect intended.
Don't get me wrong, the notion of Eric Roberts not being a 'real Master' would ring truer if he hadn't ever been brought in. The movie's reputation, though softer in recent years, is still disliked, and Eric Roberts' version was not well loved at all. He was little more than a foot note as far as Doctor Who canon was concerned. So, sure, he's a fragment, a clone, etc. Even Big Finish treated him as small speed bump, that is until they acquired Eric Roberts to play the part. Now, you have to accommodate this version. Even the Reaper Master (decayed) mentions in Planet of Dust that his memory was flawed (kind of a big deal there) and that his recollection of his time as the Roberts Master is now suddenly clearer as he nears death. What this means as far as I am concerned, is that a lot of what is recounted in Mastermind can be now be smudged. because, again, you have Roberts on board. That's the key element here. You have the actor. He's playing the part now. He was likely already slatted for his own box set at the point when they were recording DotM. He is no fragment and they have to make the adjustment. He's the Master the same way Ainley was the Master. Stolen Body.
As for his behavior being contrast to the film, see above. People hate/hated the movie and view the portrayal of the Master as one of the worst things about it. Personally, I think that's harsh. I think the angle of the character was fine, it was actually the substance of the material at fault, but never mind that. Big Finish is doing what they did with the Sixth Doctor. They are searching for a new personality for this Master to avoid fan backlash. So far, he's been much more reserved and menacing. Eric Roberts is also adjusting to the audio format. He was stiff in Lifeboat, but in DotM he was much more comfortable, it seemed, but playing very straight (no pun intended tehehe).
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Post by xlozdob on Oct 14, 2020 10:38:45 GMT
Chalk this under over thinking. No disrespect intended. Don't get me wrong, the notion of Eric Roberts not being a 'real Master' would ring truer if he hadn't ever been brought in. The movie's reputation, though softer in recent years, is still disliked, and Eric Roberts' version was not well loved at all. He was little more than a foot note as far as Doctor Who canon was concerned. So, sure, he's a fragment, a clone, etc. Even Big Finish treated him as small speed bump, that is until they acquired Eric Roberts to play the part. Now, you have to accommodate this version. Even the Reaper Master (decayed) mentions in Planet of Dust that his memory was flawed (kind of a big deal there) and that his recollection of his time as the Roberts Master is now suddenly clearer as he nears death. What this means as far as I am concerned, is that a lot of what is recounted in Mastermind can be now be smudged. because, again, you have Roberts on board. That's the key element here. You have the actor. He's playing the part now. He was likely already slatted for his own box set at the point when they were recording DotM. He is no fragment and they have to make the adjustment. He's the Master the same way Ainley was the Master. Stolen Body. As for his behavior being contrast to the film, see above. People hate/hated the movie and view the portrayal of the Master as one of the worst things about it. Personally, I think that's harsh. I think the angle of the character was fine, it was actually the substance of the material at fault, but never mind that. Big Finish is doing what they did with the Sixth Doctor. They are searching for a new personality for this Master to avoid fan backlash. So far, he's been much more reserved and menacing. Eric Roberts is also adjusting to the audio format. He was stiff in Lifeboat, but in DotM he was much more comfortable, it seemed, but playing very straight (no pun intended tehehe). What's the problem with Mastermind? I've only listened to it once, but it wasn't that long ago, and as far as I can remember there's nothing in Mastermind that would directly contradict anything new with Roberts, is there? It happens after the Bruce cocoon is shed off.
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Post by x2magneto on Oct 14, 2020 16:47:31 GMT
Chalk this under over thinking. No disrespect intended. Don't get me wrong, the notion of Eric Roberts not being a 'real Master' would ring truer if he hadn't ever been brought in. The movie's reputation, though softer in recent years, is still disliked, and Eric Roberts' version was not well loved at all. He was little more than a foot note as far as Doctor Who canon was concerned. So, sure, he's a fragment, a clone, etc. Even Big Finish treated him as small speed bump, that is until they acquired Eric Roberts to play the part. Now, you have to accommodate this version. Even the Reaper Master (decayed) mentions in Planet of Dust that his memory was flawed (kind of a big deal there) and that his recollection of his time as the Roberts Master is now suddenly clearer as he nears death. What this means as far as I am concerned, is that a lot of what is recounted in Mastermind can be now be smudged. because, again, you have Roberts on board. That's the key element here. You have the actor. He's playing the part now. He was likely already slatted for his own box set at the point when they were recording DotM. He is no fragment and they have to make the adjustment. He's the Master the same way Ainley was the Master. Stolen Body. As for his behavior being contrast to the film, see above. People hate/hated the movie and view the portrayal of the Master as one of the worst things about it. Personally, I think that's harsh. I think the angle of the character was fine, it was actually the substance of the material at fault, but never mind that. Big Finish is doing what they did with the Sixth Doctor. They are searching for a new personality for this Master to avoid fan backlash. So far, he's been much more reserved and menacing. Eric Roberts is also adjusting to the audio format. He was stiff in Lifeboat, but in DotM he was much more comfortable, it seemed, but playing very straight (no pun intended tehehe). What's the problem with Mastermind? I've only listened to it once, but it wasn't that long ago, and as far as I can remember there's nothing in Mastermind that would directly contradict anything new with Roberts, is there? It happens after the Bruce cocoon is shed off. I... honestly don't remember if there is continuity dumping in that or if it was in 'Master.' I was busy pontificating. Just act like I'm genius, will ya. Seriously though, I do remember there being bits and pieces here and there that point out that Roberts didn't really last long and his end was supposed to be IN the the vortex, which is why Beevers is all like "ack I'm dying so I remember differently now ack" in Planet of Dust. I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist.
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Post by x2magneto on Oct 14, 2020 16:52:10 GMT
What's the problem with Mastermind? I've only listened to it once, but it wasn't that long ago, and as far as I can remember there's nothing in Mastermind that would directly contradict anything new with Roberts, is there? It happens after the Bruce cocoon is shed off. I... honestly don't remember if there is continuity dumping in that or if it was in 'Master.' I was busy pontificating. Just act like I'm genius, will ya. Seriously though, I do remember there being bits and pieces here and there that point out that Roberts didn't really last long and his end was supposed to be IN the the vortex, which is why Beevers is all like "ack I'm dying so I remember differently now ack" in Planet of Dust. I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist. Forgot about Dust Breeding, too. No seriously. I've forgotten it.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Oct 14, 2020 20:37:32 GMT
Mastermind has the Master saying that eventually any body the Zombeevers vapour possesses eventually turns into the Zombeevers and not whatever the body was like initially, maybe he hasn’t possessed Bruce long enough for that to happen
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Post by xlozdob on Oct 14, 2020 21:22:14 GMT
Mastermind has the Master saying that eventually any body the Zombeevers vapour possesses eventually turns into the Zombeevers and not whatever the body was like initially, maybe he hasn’t possessed Bruce long enough for that to happen Yeah, in Mastermind his "Don Maestro" bodies last at least 20 years (more than the lifespan of some of the Doctor's incarnations). Plus he also found out that the possessions caused the body to decay in that story. So either the first body the deadworm morphant possesses doesn't decay (it would make sense, what would be the purpose of the deadworm if not?) and it was actually the body hoping that caused later bodies to decay, or yeah, he didn't stay long enough in Bruce's body for it to properly zombeevy(?).
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Oct 14, 2020 22:21:06 GMT
Mastermind has the Master saying that eventually any body the Zombeevers vapour possesses eventually turns into the Zombeevers and not whatever the body was like initially, maybe he hasn’t possessed Bruce long enough for that to happen Yeah, in Mastermind his "Don Maestro" bodies last at least 20 years (more than the lifespan of some of the Doctor's incarnations). Plus he also found out that the possessions caused the body to decay in that story. So either the first body the deadworm morphant possesses doesn't decay (it would make sense, what would be the purpose of the deadworm if not?) and it was actually the body hoping that caused later bodies to decay, or yeah, he didn't stay long enough in Bruce's body for it to properly zombeevy(?). Bruce is clearly decaying in the TV movie, maybe being in the vortex prevented his decay.
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Post by CookieMaster on Oct 15, 2020 6:28:09 GMT
In Mastermind, the Master mentions using chemical processes to prolong the lifespan of his hosts. I'm thinking, yeah, the vortex provides some kind of life extending properties or he found futuristic medical equipment whilst posing as 'Daniel' aboard that old hulk. As Maestro he simply forgot about it at first.
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Post by x2magneto on Oct 15, 2020 15:41:29 GMT
In Mastermind, the Master mentions using chemical processes to prolong the lifespan of his hosts. I'm thinking, yeah, the vortex provides some kind of life extending properties or he found futuristic medical equipment whilst posing as 'Daniel' aboard that old hulk. As Maestro he simply forgot about it at first. When 8 questions him in Day of the Master about why he isn't decaying anymore, The Master does mention having been 'energized,' which many be just another name for stabilized. Maybe that's why he does* snake out anymore. Doesn't* *Edit cause spelling and thinking hard
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