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Post by timegirl on Nov 5, 2020 4:39:53 GMT
What are some episodes/stories that you feel you should like more than you do but you don’t?They could be for any reason big to completely nitpicky. No reason is invalid, for being to silly or melodramatic or nitpicky.
Mine: I should like Husbands of River Song more than what I do. I almost resent how charming, funny, and heartwarming it is because of one major reason: it came directly after Hell Bent. It felt almost cruel to have 12 have this big romantic story with River directly after Clara’s tragic exit. I like River in small doses but Clara was 12’s soulmate. I desperately wanted a happy ending for 12 and Clara and it felt wrong to have him paired with anyone else romantically.
What are some episodes/stories you feel you should like more but don’t?
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Post by constonks on Nov 5, 2020 4:53:03 GMT
I should like Husbands of River Song more than what I do. I almost resent how charming, funny, and heartwarming it is because of one major reason: it came directly after Hell Bent. It felt almost cruel to have 12 have this big romantic story with River directly after Clara’s tragic exit. I like River in small doses but Clara was 12’s soulmate. I desperately wanted a happy ending for 12 and Clara and it felt wrong to have him paired with anyone else romantically. Just think, there could have been WAY more time between those two episodes - there's certainly a lot of EU stuff that fits there! As for me, it's probably Caves of Androzani. It's good, I know it's well made and well written but for some reason it didn't wow me either of the times I've seen it?? (Except the very end. Because Colin's first lines are my favourite part - it's just such wonderful whiplash, in the way that the New Who regenerations usually are.)
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Post by timegirl on Nov 5, 2020 5:24:37 GMT
I should like Husbands of River Song more than what I do. I almost resent how charming, funny, and heartwarming it is because of one major reason: it came directly after Hell Bent. It felt almost cruel to have 12 have this big romantic story with River directly after Clara’s tragic exit. I like River in small doses but Clara was 12’s soulmate. I desperately wanted a happy ending for 12 and Clara and it felt wrong to have him paired with anyone else romantically. Just think, there could have been WAY more time between those two episodes - there's certainly a lot of EU stuff that fits there! As for me, it's probably Caves of Androzani. It's good, I know it's well made and well written but for some reason it didn't wow me either of the times I've seen it?? (Except the very end. Because Colin's first lines are my favourite part - it's just such wonderful whiplash, in the way that the New Who regenerations usually are.) That’s true about time in between those two episodes but I still would have liked it better if it was Husband of Clara Oswald rather than Husbands of River Song🤔 I like River okay but 12 and Clara were something special! There are aspects I like but I guess I just don’t like 12 paired with anyone else romantically. I know it’s silly and a bit stupid of me but it’s just my opinion. I know what you mean about caves of Androzani I have mixed feelings about it too, it’s good but it’s almost too uniformly dark.
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Post by polly on Nov 5, 2020 20:47:34 GMT
I thought we had a similar thread not too long ago? Maybe I'm losing my mind. Either way:
Carnival of Monsters - Very well-regarded usually, and it has an inventive idea, but in my opinion it's a pretty average story.
The Green Death - Odd one out in that I do like the story quite a bit, but not to the great heights of praise it often gets. A bit too long, really.
Human Nature/Family of Blood - I swear we talked about my petty dislike of this recently.
Utopia - Chantho is too annoying.
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang - Same as Carnival of Monsters, it's good on paper, but watching it, it's...fine?
The Doctor's Wife - The personification of the TARDIS in this story drives me up the wall, across the ceiling, and down the other wall.
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Post by timegirl on Nov 5, 2020 21:11:12 GMT
I thought we had a similar thread not too long ago? Maybe I'm losing my mind. Either way: Carnival of Monsters - Very well-regarded usually, and it has an inventive idea, but in my opinion it's a pretty average story. The Green Death - Odd one out in that I do like the story quite a bit, but not to the great heights of praise it often gets. A bit too long, really. Human Nature/Family of Blood - I swear we talked about my petty dislike of this recently. Utopia - Chantho is too annoying. The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang - Same as Carnival of Monsters, it's good on paper, but watching it, it's...fine? The Doctor's Wife - The personification of the TARDIS in this story drives me up the wall, across the ceiling, and down the other wall. Slightly similar but not exactly, we had the thread on stories you like and hate simultaneously.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,648
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 5, 2020 22:38:16 GMT
Father’s Day. It’s just an episode that rubs me up he wrong way. Paul Cornell -like Paul Magrs - just has a vision of Who that runs just a tiny bit counter to what I think of it and this story exemplifies everything about it. Human Nature/ Family of Blood does the same for me.
Listen. PCap is probably my favourite Doctor and this episode has everything I love about the show in it: references to unseen stories, a glimpse of characters lives away from the main stories, an unseen monster that may or may not even exist, timey-wimey stuff... but I just can’t get into it.
Earthshock. I love the ongoing references to characters lives and their continuing arguments (Season 19 is brilliant because it just feels like a continuing story, rather like early Who) but this leaps out at you and just slaps you with gritty shock after gritty shock. The best parts are the cliffhanger at episode 1 and the death of Adric. Aside from that, it’s a bit of a chore. I also really wish that Eric Saward had written some Blake’s 7. I feel he would have been a better match for that.
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Post by polly on Nov 5, 2020 22:57:51 GMT
Slightly similar but not exactly, we had the thread on stories you like and hate simultaneously. Right, that's the one! Good to know I'm not crazy
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Post by grinch on Nov 7, 2020 19:23:54 GMT
Father’s Day. It’s just an episode that rubs me up he wrong way. Paul Cornell -like Paul Magrs - just has a vision of Who that runs just a tiny bit counter to what I think of it and this story exemplifies everything about it. Human Nature/ Family of Blood does the same for me. Listen. PCap is probably my favourite Doctor and this episode has everything I love about the show in it: references to unseen stories, a glimpse of characters lives away from the main stories, an unseen monster that may or may not even exist, timey-wimey stuff... but I just can’t get into it. Earthshock. I love the ongoing references to characters lives and their continuing arguments (Season 19 is brilliant because it just feels like a continuing story, rather like early Who) but this leaps out at you and just slaps you with gritty shock after gritty shock. The best parts are the cliffhanger at episode 1 and the death of Adric. Aside from that, it’s a bit of a chore. I also really wish that Eric Saward had written some Blake’s 7. I feel he would have been a better match for that. Mind elaborating on what you think Magrs and Cornell’s version of Doctor Who is? Genuinely curious.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,648
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 8, 2020 8:23:54 GMT
Mind elaborating on what you think Magrs and Cornell’s version of Doctor Who is? Genuinely curious. I’ve noticed it more in their novels than their tv and audio work, but both authors contributed heavily to the “lonely god” idea that began during the VNAs and became prevalent during the Tennant/ Smith eras. They also began the reification of companions and subsidiary characters during this time. Look, I love Ace as much as the next person but she was a troubled teen who managed to overcome her background: the number of stories that portrayed her as the font of all wisdom were a bit ridiculous, and a lot of it started in the VNAs, driven by Cornell in his first novel, Timewyrm 4 (I forget the subtitle). Magrs enjoys portraying the Doctor as a kind of melancholy, tired, worldweary Jungian archetype. Cornell was fond of inventing new Time Lord tech - the chameleon arch in Human Nature and the nanobots utilised by Ace in Shadow Of The Scourge to fix her ears, as examples - that served no purpose except as a plot device to keep things moving or to fill an awkward gap in the storytelling. I have no problem with new tech being invented by writers but sometimes it just comes across a bit stage-managed and overly convenient, like when 5 discovers the hexachromite whatsit that is lethal to reptilian life forms in Warriors Of The Deep. If the Doctor rigs something up out of existing equipment, I’m okay with it: if it’s a magical piece that appears from nowhere and just happens to be necessary for that one story, I’m a bit suspicious. Other authors do it, too, so please don’t feel that I’m just picking on these guys. A lot of it, though, is that they just don’t appeal to me as writers: I feel unusually manipulated and guided by them as a reader and often find that they will create an awkward character moment that is supposed to be startling but instead comes across as mawkish (to me, anyway) and not particularly inspired or - sometimes - true to the character. Obviously YMMV. I’ve read about half-a-dozen books by them and listened to a reasonable chunk of their audios. They just don’t excite me the way that other writers do. I’m happy for other people to enjoy them; I’m just not feeling it myself.
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Post by number13 on Nov 8, 2020 12:01:11 GMT
The Mutants
It tells a good story, it's worthy and moral, it has lots of really good location filming, a villainous villain, some very alien aliens with a fairly unique evolution and it has Time Lord stuff and stars my Doctor and Jo; the top team. But I always feel it's unusually dull, a six-parter that feels even longer than that and misses the action and excitement of most Pertwee-era stories. It comes right after 'The Sea Devils' and the contrast is marked; now that's a six-parter!
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Post by fitzoliverj on Nov 8, 2020 12:26:01 GMT
As for me, it's probably Caves of Androzani. It's good, I know it's well made and well written but for some reason it didn't wow me either of the times I've seen it?? (Except the very end. Because Colin's first lines are my favourite part - it's just such wonderful whiplash, in the way that the New Who regenerations usually are.) You're not wrong. Two (or three) great episode endings, but not much more. I'm going to plump for "Inferno". I just couldn't muster any interest but I know it's well-recieved by others.
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Post by slithe on Nov 8, 2020 12:36:27 GMT
Logopolis - considering that it is the last story for Tom Baker, I'm always underwhelmed by it. Never quite lives up to its premise and too much is left unresolved - notably, the Watcher. BF need to do something on this...
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Post by mark687 on Nov 8, 2020 13:28:51 GMT
The Daleks (Seriously once you get past the initial oddness that viewers must've felt in 1963 its a dull by the numbers quest narrative.)
Ark in Space (I just enjoy the rest of Season 12 more.)
Girl Who Waited (Awful silly set up and no stakes whatsoever.)
Regards
mark687
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Post by mark687 on Nov 8, 2020 13:33:47 GMT
The Mutants
It tells a good story, it's worthy and moral, it has lots of really good location filming, a villainous villain, some very alien aliens with a fairly unique evolution and it has Time Lord stuff and stars my Doctor and Jo; the top team. But I always feel it's unusually dull, a six-parter that feels even longer than that and misses the action and excitement of most Pertwee-era stories. It comes right after 'The Sea Devils' and the contrast is marked; now that's a six-parter!
Agreed My thinking on Who is I can forgive being bad but not it being Boring. Regards mark687
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Post by number13 on Nov 8, 2020 14:09:16 GMT
The Mutants
It tells a good story, it's worthy and moral, it has lots of really good location filming, a villainous villain, some very alien aliens with a fairly unique evolution and it has Time Lord stuff and stars my Doctor and Jo; the top team. But I always feel it's unusually dull, a six-parter that feels even longer than that and misses the action and excitement of most Pertwee-era stories. It comes right after 'The Sea Devils' and the contrast is marked; now that's a six-parter!
Agreed My thinking on Who is I can forgive being bad but not it being Boring. Regards mark687 It really needed HAVOC imo. Hard to imagine S7 or S8 without them and to me this looks like a story that was written expecting them to be there to perform all the action scenes, but was made after they weren't routinely part of the productions.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2020 2:13:21 GMT
The Time Warrior.
On television (the novelisation's quite good). At the time of Warrior, Bob Holmes was apparently of the mind that pseudo-historicals were best left in the past1. He didn't really want to do one, but despite that, his writing on this story is quite good. I don't think it's the weakness. Jingo Lynx makes for a memorable villain and the idea of bringing Sarah in as someone initially fighting against the Doctor is a good one. The direction, though... It really pulls me out of it. How can I describe it? It's like watching a stageplay where all the actors are facing the wings rather than the audience. Something being made in spite of the camera, rather than for it.
1 - (What a few years difference makes, Holmes was the one to introduce the pseudo-historical element to Pyramids of Mars!)
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