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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jan 2, 2021 7:04:28 GMT
I really enjoyed it. Loved the imagery of the Daleks as security drones (Power of the Daleks but very topical, possibly accidentally so), the Dalek civil war, that shot of the TARDIS with the Daleks circling, the quiet scene between the Doctor and Ryan, the monster appearances at the prison... Just a very fun episode. My personal favourite of Chibnall's episodes so far, I think.
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Post by Jeedai on Jan 2, 2021 8:17:45 GMT
So, how many security monitors are watching that Weeping Angel...?
Middle-of-the-road ep for me. No real flaws, no jaw-dropping moments either. The bit at the end with Ryan and Gram was nice.
I'm disappointed tho that Thirteen and Yaz will be picking up a third after all the time I've spent looking forward to them becoming a double-act.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jan 2, 2021 9:18:45 GMT
There really weren't a lot of surprises here - I could see a lot of it coming a mile away especially what would have to happen for all those Dalek shells to get to be a menace and it basically ended like I thought it would as soon as the scene with the Doctor and Ryan, although I don't mind at all that it did end that way.
Agreed with others that it sort of seemed like a collection of tropes, but as much as they could have done with the Doctor in prison, with so many of us locked up/locked down I am SO glad it didn't go on any longer than it did. Maybe some other time? Maybe Chibnall will come back to the idea and make more of it...
I mean, that's mainly what I thought of this somehow is that he was revisiting a bunch of standards with the goal of making them work better and look better than ever before, and I think it did that - it does make for a great Dalek story and it's visually stunning. It was liberally sprinkled with fan-pleasing references also, and I tend to enjoy whenever the show acknowledges its own past that way.
So, okay, maybe it didn't work out better than before for the Prime Minister, but that was one of the events I could see about literally from the very beginning.
Not bad for a holiday special and really it's just very nice to have a new episode at the moment, and such a well-crafted one .
I dunno, maybe let's say it might not have been the perfect episode, but as sort of a perfected episode, maybe it was about the next best thing?
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Post by chopper on Jan 2, 2021 9:33:11 GMT
Didn’t twig that the start was the end of the last dalek episode. Only seen that once on transmission. Just thought we were landing hard into an unseen adventure.
Wish we could have seen the Doc at least attempt to escape from the prison. Main criticism of 13 is that she is way too passive. No change there with Jack coming to save her.
Spare tardis - where was this from again? I thought it was just an earlier version of her tardis owned by an earlier version of her? Guess not.
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Post by doctorkernow on Jan 2, 2021 9:48:38 GMT
Hello again. This was not the most original Doctor Who story I've ever seen. There were many ideas that appeared first in other stories. So much so, that I was able to predict how the Doctor was going to get rid of the red eye Daleks with ease. The cut between the Dalek thread and the slower companion thread was less abrupt and they were a lot more natural. The story looked fantastic. The SAS Daleks showed what a great design the 2005 version was and I loved their ship and the saucer. Chris Noth's character was much better this time round too, he had some great lines which were well delivered. * I also enjoyed having Captain Jack back, his talk with Yaz was very much like School Reunion. The Daleks were really shown at their conniving best and although he used the mutant on your back idea last time, it still worked well. The Doctor in prison sequence was good, Jodie portrayed the routine of prison life well. Loved the one liners with her other inmates. It was good sendoff for the fam, they put their knowledge of working with the Doctor to good use and Graham and Ryan's leaving scenes were sad. Could they end up working for Torchwood perhaps, now that Jack is back on Earth?
On the whole, I enjoyed it and would watch it again, probably in a double header with Resolution.
As to the future, I too would have preferred a one companion, one Doctor team but Jon Bishop could be interesting. He is another comedian who has tackled drama. Unfortunately, he is unwell with Covid-19 so I hope he and his wife have a fast recovery. What will be crucial for Mr Chibnall in series 13 is with only eight stories, every one has to land. The last eight story season 7B was a very mixed bag. It will be interesting to see what we get as he now has two season's experience. He knows what works and what doesn't. Looking forward to it already...
* Can we have Robertson team up with Lenny Henry's Daniel Barton next please? Both have unfinished business with the Doctor and I can't believe a setback will keep them from having another go at world domination.
Spare TARDIS from end of Timeless Children, takes the fam home while the Doctor locates her own TARDIS and is captured.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 2, 2021 10:45:52 GMT
Lizo, the BBC's entertainment correspondant, reckons this was the best ep of the Jodie era. I...man....I'd love to feel that but I just don't see anything in it to get me anywhere near that upbeat about this one. A 2/5 for me. Respecting other opinions, of course, but Demons of the Punjab, It Takes You Away, Resolution, Nicola Tesla's Night of Terror, Haunting of Villa Diodati ... and Revolution is this guy's favourite? Okay.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 2, 2021 11:37:22 GMT
This was a really fun and enjoyable episode, that was only held back from being amazing by a few minor niggles.
I did like how it weaved in elements from previous Jodie stories mind
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Post by barnabaslives on Jan 2, 2021 12:24:49 GMT
Wish we could have seen the Doc at least attempt to escape from the prison. Main criticism of 13 is that she is way too passive. No change there with Jack coming to save her. That would have been fine but Jack does need things to do to keep him out of trouble... or is that, get him into trouble? lol - okay, Jack needs things to do. :-)
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 2, 2021 13:00:30 GMT
3. So do many secret dodgy British government meetings happen in rainy muddy forests? Maybe this is where Boris got his hairstyle from, after crawling through some dense undergrowth. In general, they are not even trying to show the British government as in any way competent anymore. For a national TV service, I am not really sure if this is maybe going a bit too far.
Yes, there is a long history of incompetent government officials in Doctor Who, but at least Harriet Jones got things done and she was maybe a good natured joke, but still competent. This is beyond a joke now.
I actually did fall into the good old German practice of "Fremdschämen", feeling embarrassed on someone's behalf.
I do not think you could do anything similar, on that scale, on German national television. Harriet Jones, yes. But this was borderline offensive.
At least this is what this looks like to me as an uninitiated foreigner.
Have a read of Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman in which the ducks in the pond at Regents Park have become incredibly fussy about bread because of the numerous meetings there by spies from different countries who are also feeding them to avoid looking suspicious. But do not watch Yes, Minister or its sequel series Yes, Prime Minister if you don’t like a series to be disrespectful of governments (please do watch them: they are hilarious). I think most shows get away with it by not applying a party name to the politicians being made fun of. I am a huge fan of Sir Terry, and I love Good Omens. But it is a stretch from a meeting in a public park to a remote rainy bit of forest.... at least IMHO.
I have no issue with making fun of politicians.
We have a whole comedy sub culture which lives of it. But there is a difference between making fun, and the public Extermination of an incompetent prime minister on live television. I think that was crossing the line nearly in the same way that German comedian crossed the line when he made a "funny" song about Erdogan being a child molester (which, I have to add, also happened on German national television!).
I am no friend of Erdogan, but that was not funny anymore.
And it caused a diplomatic incident and the comedian was put on the most wanted list and is now banned from Turkey.
Things like these leave a bad taste in my mouth.
But it might be a German thing, because, believe it or not, we still have a (very old) law which bans the population from making severe fun of the ruling class and/ or insulting the ruling class (Majestätsbeleidigung). However, this law was always set aside during carneval time, and from there comes the tradition of for example "Politiker-Derblecken" (politician bashing).
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 2, 2021 13:12:24 GMT
Overall i enjoyed it, nice to see Daleks exterminating lots of people again & being threatening, a nice devious plan by the Doctor in destroying the Daleks (a touch of the devious seventh incarnation i thought). Jodie showed a wonderful emotional side to the Doctor when Ryan & Graham left (them seeing there wife/grandma brought tears to my eye's) & it was nice to see John Barrowman reign in the over the top theatrics & actually give a character driven performance as Capt Jack as he tells Yaz about life travelling with the Doctor & how he felt when it ended. Few nitpicks, the escape was pretty easily handled & i thought we could have learned more about the prison as they are holding various aliens & monsters in there (hopefully this prison will be expanded upon in series 13), Chris Roth as Jack Robinson is annoying character who spouted some awful dialogue made w orse he came out the ordeal the flipping hero? The prime minister was a poor Harriet Jones "were experiencing a few technical issues" while people are being exterminated felt silly". To quote John McClaine in Die Hard. "No fu.king sh.t lady do you think I'm ordering a pizza" Overall the good outweighed the bad, i wish the episode had been 90 minutes & had a more tense escape from the prison sequence but on the whole a entertaining Doctor Who adventure. 4/5. Oh & John Bishop as new companion Dan I'm on the fence about that, I'm not sure how i feel about him joining the Tardis TBH.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 13:26:41 GMT
For those interested, Revolution of the Daleks had overnight viewing figures of 4.69 million, making it the BBC's most popular show. Ahead of it on ITV were the evening news (5.5) and Coronation Street (5.0). So, that's third overall and of course, that's not consolidated. Way back in 1988, Doctor Who was receiving similar figures, whereas Coronation Street, scheduled opposite, was attracting 16 million viewers and above. Obviously the television landscape has changed several times since then, but even so ...
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Post by ollychops on Jan 2, 2021 13:45:42 GMT
Lizo, the BBC's entertainment correspondant, reckons this was the best ep of the Jodie era. I'd argue that it's possibly Chibnall's best script for Jodie (that or The Woman Who Fell to Earth), but it's definitely not the best episode of the era overall.
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Post by Chakoteya on Jan 2, 2021 15:31:58 GMT
OMG is it really 25-30 years since Chris Noth first hit my eyeballs in Law and Order...? Still looking good, man.
(This post was brought to you by the If You Can't Say Anything Nice Don't Say Anything At All department.)
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Post by fingersmash on Jan 2, 2021 16:38:56 GMT
Definitely Chibnall's best script for Whittaker. I really enjoyed this episode. Extremely fun, well-paced, constantly moving. Making a Dalek story a character piece just feels correct for some reason. Graham and Ryan leaving on their own terms was a great decision considering the only other companions in the New Series to have done that were Martha and Mickey. I'm excited to see where lucky Series 13 takes us because this is, in all honesty, a very good sign.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jan 2, 2021 17:11:05 GMT
It was ok. The pacing was all over the place, the plot was predictable but it did have some highlights.
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Post by chopper on Jan 2, 2021 20:13:14 GMT
Glad we don’t have that German law. Sounds a bit too close to the Thai law where people are being imprisoned for mildly criticising the King.
In the UK we relentlessly criticise and lampoon politicians, so this particular storyline didn’t even seem that harsh given that there were no real politicians or political parties mentioned. In fact the problem was that she was too relentlessly efficient. Wouldn’t have that at the moment.
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Post by agentten on Jan 2, 2021 21:27:38 GMT
My thoughts:
- Jack and Thirteen meshed really well and were a lot of fun to watch. I hope he'll continue to be part of the show.
- Jack had some great lines, especially the silver fox line. He seemed a bit older and wiser and I felt that the show was subtly indicating that he had matured a bit and also that quite a bit of time had passed in Jack's timeline, more time than the length between his appearances on the show, I mean.
- I think it could have been made a little bit more clear whether the Doctor was actually imprisoned or just allowing herself to be imprisoned while she wrestled with the Timeless Child revelations. It didn't seem like a prison that would be able to successfully hold the Doctor if she didn't want to be there, so it seems like an important character beat if she's there willingly because of how she feels.
- Pretty standard Dalek plot from the RTD era, complete with ambitious politicians and alien tech worming its way into everyday British life in an insidious way. That doesn't mean it wasn't entertaining, as I did enjoy it. I am very partial to the RTD era, so that vibe works for me.
- The real stand out was the character work. Most notably, the scene between Jack and Yaz where they talk about The Doctor, and the scene between The Doctor and Ryan, which managed some complex feelings in a relatable way.
- I really liked the Dalek redesign and hope we see more of that faction of Daleks in the future.
- Jack talking about Gwen seems like it could be just a nice nod to Torchwood, or it could be a reintroduction to Torchwood. I noticed that several times in the episode, Jack mentioned the key points of his origin story. It felt like establishing work more than callbacks. I can't help but think that Torchwood is returning.
- One plot hole that I felt needed to be addressed was the Dalek footage being leaked. Surely people who keep their fingers on the pulse of such things, such as Sarah Jane, Jo, Gwen, or what's left of UNIT, would have pounced on that. There are people on Earth who know what a Dalek is and it seemed like just debuting them on TV as a new police assistant wouldn't be sufficient to fool everyone. Perhaps this is intended to show Earth's vulnerability without UNIT and Torchwood standing on the wall.
- On a connected note: As a big fan of UNIT, I'm finding a big UNIT sized hole in these Earth-gets-invaded episodes that is really going to need more explanation beyond budget cuts.
- I'm sad to see part of the fam go, but I do think it's a good move that Yaz stays. She's the most in need of development. It feels like Ryan and Graham's story came to a close. I am curious where things will go with Yaz. She seems really invested in The Doctor and I can't decide if it's just out of loyalty, or if she's a little too obsessed. She's clinging to The Doctor pretty tightly and the show seems to be going out of it's way to depict that, so I'm curious where it's going.
- The effects work was really strong. The shots of Daleks zipping around the skies exterminating people looked really impressive.
All in all, an enjoyable episode. Now we settle back in for the long wait until the next season.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jan 3, 2021 0:59:13 GMT
Glad we don’t have that German law. Sounds a bit too close to the Thai law where people are being imprisoned for mildly criticising the King. In the UK we relentlessly criticise and lampoon politicians, so this particular storyline didn’t even seem that harsh given that there were no real politicians or political parties mentioned. In fact the problem was that she was too relentlessly efficient. Wouldn’t have that at the moment. If UK politicians want less people making fun of them, they could try being better at their jobs. I felt this episode was fairly tame by comparison to Aliens of London/World War Three or The Happiness Patrol. Doctor Who has a long history of political satire and criticism of the government.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2021 4:53:33 GMT
Glad we don’t have that German law. Sounds a bit too close to the Thai law where people are being imprisoned for mildly criticising the King. In the UK we relentlessly criticise and lampoon politicians, so this particular storyline didn’t even seem that harsh given that there were no real politicians or political parties mentioned. In fact the problem was that she was too relentlessly efficient. Wouldn’t have that at the moment. If UK politicians want less people making fun of them, they could try being better at their jobs. I felt this episode was fairly tame by comparison to Aliens of London/World War Three or The Happiness Patrol. Doctor Who has a long history of political satire and criticism of the government. That's kind of where my interpretation of the Doctor accepting the title of "fool" comes from. Those tweaks of the nose to figures of authority, in general. Particularly the idea of the government being somehow above the needs of its people. What we see -- in more extreme cases -- in the series' tyrants, dictators and military juntas. The Doctors' are foolish in the sense of a court jester you might find in a Shakespearean play like Lear. Someone who can stand up, time and time again, and say: Or something to that effect. Accountability, is a good word for it. The Doctor, whether swirling sherry in palaces or helping beggars up off streets, tends towards keeping the voices of authority honest. I rather like that in the character.
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Post by constonks on Jan 3, 2021 5:21:32 GMT
In the UK we relentlessly criticise and lampoon politicians, so this particular storyline didn’t even seem that harsh given that there were no real politicians or political parties mentioned. In fact the problem was that she was too relentlessly efficient. Wouldn’t have that at the moment.Lol this is a great take.
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