|
Post by Kestrel on Jan 7, 2021 7:45:26 GMT
Yeah, I don't think it's very well-known. Mutism simply isn't dealt with much in media, and self-advocacy can be very difficult, so it's hard to really raise awareness. I suspect most communication disorders are similarly unknown. The most I've ever seen in entertainment media is a "mute" character used as a plot device--little more than set dressing--which is, in its own way, dehumanizing.
And I guess I do have a bit of a duty to offer some general life advice here, given the opportunity. It may seem like on obvious thing, but in your daily life I would encourage you to never make assumptions on silence. If you're in a social setting with someone who is not joining in conversations, speak to them. If they don't react well, or at all, don't assume they dislike it--simply ask them. Don't assume everyone has the same ability to display their pleasure or displeasure, or state their wants or desires.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 7:46:27 GMT
Hahaha... thanks, everyone, for being willing to humor me. My response to this story has been... fairly extreme. By which I mean I've written a great deal about it--including three posts here--which I've subsequently deleted. Basically, it's just too much. So please keep in mind that, even with the wall of text below, this is me doing my very best to keep it concise. So: why did I have an "extreme" reaction to the story? Because mutism is never explored in fiction. I quickly recognized the premise of this story for the opportunity that it was. And I became very frustrated with it when it became apparent that it was not going to fully explore it's own premise. I'd go so far as to say, even, that I was angry. Not at the script, not at the writer, but at Big Finish for looking at this idea and thinking, "this'll be a good Short Trip." Because no, absolutely not, this story should never have been a Short Trip. A story like this--imagining an entire society built around enforced mutism--demands a full hour to explore. Ideally even more than that. It cannot be done within the confines of a short trip that must also struggle to incorporate all of those other dramatic elements beyond setting into a very limited run-time. Speculative fiction is, at it's heart, simply asking a hypothetical question and providing a potential answer. That's it. That's all SF is. And Free Speech poses a hypothetical society built on enforced mutism. I dunno about y'all, but that idea sent my mind spinning: the whole time I was listening to the episode, I kept thinking of more and more ways such a society might differ from our own. I had to stop myself from pausing the story to list out more after scribbling down several dozens. It's just one of those ideas to which I was drawn with an intense attraction. And you might say, "this story doesn't deal with mutism! It's about a fascy police-state where speech is heavily regulated!" So let's talk a bit about mutism. I can only discuss my personal experience. I've got selective mutism along with limited affect. I'm not sure if the two typically go hand-in-hand, or if the latter is more an ASD thing, but regardless, they both function to limit my capacity to physically communicate. I'm not sure familiar y'all may or may not be with the term " selective mutism," but in short it means that I am almost fully capable of speech in some contexts, only partly-capable of speech in other contexts, and utterly incapable of speech in many contexts. Let me explain what that feels like. Imagine being in a crowded room, right in the center, and screaming. As loud as you possibly can. Only the nerve impulse from your brain never reaches your larynx. None of the muscles in your throat--or even your face--so much as twitch. You can stand there, screaming, for hours--and no one will notice. Mutism isn't silence: it's wanting to speak--desperately, sometimes--and that desire being betrayed by your own body. Sort of like wanting to speak, but not being able to afford the words, huh? You can see, I think, why I found this story's premise so engaging. So captivating. And it just did not have the time to really explore any of the ramifications of its own premise. Like the class divide that's lightly touched on? Well, I can guarantee you that the wealthy would be almost physically repulsed by the lower classes, because people do not react well to mutism, or other communication disorders. When presented with another person who does not react the way they expect them to--or react in a way they are capable of recognizing--people will react with antipathy, commonly, and sometimes abuse or even violence. The logical reasoning of, "oh, they don't speak because they cannot afford to" would not factor into it. They would think, "they don't speak because they are subhuman." And the thing about mutism is that it can't really be conveyed through any medium but prose. And the basic structure of Free Speech was perfect to really dig into a mute character--the whole interrogation thing, with the story being told to us both through dialog and the narrator's internal monolog. Because, as perhaps you've been able to discern through my own ramblings, an inability to speak vocally does not correspond to an inability to articulate thoughts in general. In other words, being mute may manifest in someone appearing, outwardly, to be very inarticulate, despite being fully capable. It's a weird juxtaposition that cannot really present in a narrative where the audience is privy to both the character's outward speech and inner thoughts. So... that's basically where I am. I feel almost as though this story was only about selective mutism by accident, otherwise the people who are being paid the big bucks to notice these things would have recognized the rich vein of potential running throughout the premise, and "promoted" it to something bigger, where they could really dive into the larger (and smaller) social and political implications of this world--and even, perhaps, address some of the physiological issues with mutism. Just think how language would evolve in this world! The rich would be excessively verbose, the poor relying, perhaps, on sign language or texting to get by. Basically... this Short Trip feels like Big Finish taking a mountain, and carving it into a molehill. Is that a bad analogy? I'm sorry. I really hope I don't come across as too critical here. Like I said at the outset, my reaction has been fairly extreme, and I've tried to parse it out in words several times. I think this is my last attempt to do so, but if y'all have any questions for me, please, feel free to ask. I did enjoy the story, but I just can't get over what a missed opportunity it feels like. How did Big Finish not see the potential here? I just can't get over this decision. If they felt like the writer (presumably an amateur?) wasn't experienced enough to fully flesh everything out into a full-length drama, well... editors exist--that is, in fact, why we exist. Thank you very much for your insight. I will be honest, this is the first time someone made me aware of the condition. I think a similar thing happened with BF, and the author... I think they might have been like me and just not been aware.
Maybe one of the BF people floating around here will take note...
I'd say with this sort of thing, more often than not, it's a question of awareness, yeah. Just... simply not knowing. That's why perspectives like yours matter, Kestrel . And hopefully, with that insight now shared, it'll open up doors in exploring the topic further in other much longer stories. Because the notion of being unable to speak out, despite every fibre of your being willing it otherwise, that sounds like an all-too-familiar concept in science fiction.
|
|
|
Post by Kestrel on Jan 7, 2021 7:48:47 GMT
"I have no mouth and I must scream."
Yeah, yeah, Harlan. Tell me something I don't know.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 7:52:45 GMT
"I have no mouth and I must scream." Yeah, yeah, Harlan. Tell me something I don't know. One of his best, I think. Are there any other characters/stories that you've come across elsewhere that you feel have dealt with the topic well?
|
|
|
Post by Kestrel on Jan 7, 2021 8:23:01 GMT
Not really, no. I have to really press my memory to even think of other stories where muteness exists.
This doesn't necessarily mean I haven't been exposed to those stories--possibly I've forgotten them, or failed to recognize myself in them at the time. Selective mutism is kind of like ASD in that it's difficult to diagnose, and can require a proactive approach--you need to people to pay attention to how you act in different contexts, and you need to interact with the same people in different contexts, for them to even notice. And if they notice, they have to care. I didn't grow up with any helpful labels like "mute" to attach to myself--I had to invent my own. And the one I landed on was simply, "broken."
Which may explain why I don't go out of my way to consume media that's reflective of my life. I've no doubt there's plenty of "advocacy" fiction and nonfiction out there dealing with experiences similar to my own, but I do not seek that media out.
Which is probably why I reacted the way I did to this story. Seeing mutism exist is rare: seeing mutism addressed rarer still: seeing mutism addressed in a context where it might be explored? An impossibility.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 8:37:56 GMT
Not really, no. I have to really press my memory to even think of other stories where muteness exists. This doesn't necessarily mean I haven't been exposed to those stories--possibly I've forgotten them, or failed to recognize myself in them at the time. Selective mutism is kind of like ASD in that it's difficult to diagnose, and can require a proactive approach--you need to people to pay attention to how you act in different contexts, and you need to interact with the same people in different contexts, for them to even notice. And if they notice, they have to care. I didn't grow up with any helpful labels like "mute" to attach to myself--I had to invent my own. And the one I landed on was simply, "broken."Which may explain why I don't go out of my way to consume media that's reflective of my life. I've no doubt there's plenty of "advocacy" fiction and nonfiction out there dealing with experiences similar to my own, but I do not seek that media out. Which is probably why I reacted the way I did to this story. Seeing mutism exist is rare: seeing mutism addressed rarer still: seeing mutism addressed in a context where it might be explored? An impossibility. Yep, that was pretty much my experience of being ace-orientated. Unusual was the word I eventually settled on. I didn't consider it to be a particularly dirty word, but people can be surprisingly narrow-minded about these sorts of things sometimes. That was a very small IRL group, though, and I've certainly no complaints about the forum. I've never had an issue. I've even had people ask me about it, out of good-tempered curiosity. In my personal experience, it's difficult for me to seek out particular kinds of media that cater to that aspect of my personality because... The broader rules are still being codified under my feet. It's so new, so recent in its recognition, that there are a lot of grey areas. Just by nature of what it is. More often than not, finding the character/story covering positively it in any detail is just straightforward serendipity. A happy accident while examining something else. It is nice when it does show up, though. I appreciate that mindfulness.
|
|
|
Post by nottenst on Jan 7, 2021 15:21:31 GMT
I just listened to the story. Another great one. Well done eugeniep I hope you have the opportunity to write more for Big Finish.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Jan 7, 2021 17:10:27 GMT
Yeah, I don't think it's very well-known. Mutism simply isn't dealt with much in media, and self-advocacy can be very difficult, so it's hard to really raise awareness. I suspect most communication disorders are similarly unknown. The most I've ever seen in entertainment media is a "mute" character used as a plot device--little more than set dressing--which is, in its own way, dehumanizing. And I guess I do have a bit of a duty to offer some general life advice here, given the opportunity. It may seem like on obvious thing, but in your daily life I would encourage you to never make assumptions on silence. If you're in a social setting with someone who is not joining in conversations, speak to them. If they don't react well, or at all, don't assume they dislike it--simply ask them. Don't assume everyone has the same ability to display their pleasure or displeasure, or state their wants or desires.This is very good advice, concerning a whole lot of social issues and interactions. Very well said!! And thank you again for stepping up and explaining.
Social interactions can be very difficult, and of course all of us are different.
I for example am a highly sensitive introvert, and have been suffering from social anxiety all my life. For most of my life, I had been the quiet shy person sitting alone in a corner.
As a kid, my family punished me for being "abnormal" and they still think I am anti-social and hate people.
Which is simply untrue. I just get overwhelmed very quickly and run out of patience and become frustrated.
This has caused me to over-compensate and when people first meet me, I come across as a very loud outward person.... (it can scare people away)
I try to not assume, but I admit that it is not always easy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 22:00:51 GMT
Yeah, I don't think it's very well-known. Mutism simply isn't dealt with much in media, and self-advocacy can be very difficult, so it's hard to really raise awareness. I suspect most communication disorders are similarly unknown. The most I've ever seen in entertainment media is a "mute" character used as a plot device--little more than set dressing--which is, in its own way, dehumanizing. And I guess I do have a bit of a duty to offer some general life advice here, given the opportunity. It may seem like on obvious thing, but in your daily life I would encourage you to never make assumptions on silence. If you're in a social setting with someone who is not joining in conversations, speak to them. If they don't react well, or at all, don't assume they dislike it--simply ask them. Don't assume everyone has the same ability to display their pleasure or displeasure, or state their wants or desires.This is very good advice, concerning a whole lot of social issues and interactions. Very well said!! And thank you again for stepping up and explaining. Social interactions can be very difficult, and of course all of us are different.
I for example am a highly sensitive introvert, and have been suffering from social anxiety all my life. For most of my life, I had been the quiet shy person sitting alone in a corner.
As a kid, my family punished me for being "abnormal" and they still think I am anti-social and hate people.
Which is simply untrue. I just get overwhelmed very quickly and run out of patience and become frustrated. This has caused me to over-compensate and when people first meet me, I come across as a very loud outward person.... (it can scare people away) I try to not assume, but I admit that it is not always easy.
Yeah, we, as a species, tend to forget just how difficult communication can be. In any format, written or verbal. After all, it's treated as a convenience. It's everywhere, in almost everything we consume as a man-made form of information, so the expectation is that everyone is coming from the same place. The same context, the same background, the same intent. When all three of those facets are present and correct, the conversation moves as it should. When something's missing, that's when you start getting into the emotive aspect of language. We fill gaps in our communication based not on immediate logic or reasoning skills, but on what we feel. It's the difference between: And: The message's recipient may only need the information in that first message, but it's more common to dispatch the second, as it portrays the intent of the sender. That they're relaxed. If they're not and they're expected to be, that points to another point of information that isn't being discussed, which could be anything from fatigue to the emergence of a further problem. That's what I liked about the interrogation setup in Free Speech, actually. The very nature of Amyius's social standing means that he has to be sparing with his words. Carefully chosen. Deliberate. However, in the context of a questioning the intent of his interrogator is quite different. It's not a sympatico exchange. Lockett wants something from his prisoner and the sparing nature of his answers can be interpreted as evasion. In other words, in his mind as an interrogator, an expression of guilt. Change the nature of the language and you change how the language is used.
|
|
shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,667
|
Post by shutupbanks on Jan 7, 2021 23:44:22 GMT
Not really, no. I have to really press my memory to even think of other stories where muteness exists. This doesn't necessarily mean I haven't been exposed to those stories--possibly I've forgotten them, or failed to recognize myself in them at the time. Selective mutism is kind of like ASD in that it's difficult to diagnose, and can require a proactive approach--you need to people to pay attention to how you act in different contexts, and you need to interact with the same people in different contexts, for them to even notice. And if they notice, they have to care. I didn't grow up with any helpful labels like "mute" to attach to myself--I had to invent my own. And the one I landed on was simply, "broken." Which may explain why I don't go out of my way to consume media that's reflective of my life. I've no doubt there's plenty of "advocacy" fiction and nonfiction out there dealing with experiences similar to my own, but I do not seek that media out. Which is probably why I reacted the way I did to this story. Seeing mutism exist is rare: seeing mutism addressed rarer still: seeing mutism addressed in a context where it might be explored? An impossibility. My only experience of mutism comes from Jane Campion’s movie The Piano and from one of my students who has “elected mutism.” For reasons of confidentiality/ professionalism I can’t write about the latter, but the former won Anna Pacquin an Oscar as the daughter of a woman (Holly Hunter) who only expresses herself through music but who learns to speak through the love of Harvey Keitel. It’s a beautiful looking film but not sure how accurate or even sympathetic it is. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences, Kestrel.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jan 8, 2021 1:45:42 GMT
"I have no mouth and I must scream." Yeah, yeah, Harlan. Tell me something I don't know. One of his best, I think. Are there any other characters/stories that you've come across elsewhere that you feel have dealt with the topic well? There was a character (one of the secondary leads in fact) in the 80s Skippy TV serial in Australia who was “selectively” mute, apparently it lead to many, many conversations about mutism here in Oz. I’ve taught a student with selective mutism, I can whole heartedly agree with the what Kestrel says about desperately wanting to speak but being stopped, the looks of despair that crossed her face from time to time (we ended up using the “air drop” function of iPads so she could talk to me or the other kids, it felt like a band-aid solution to me).
|
|
|
Post by Kestrel on Jan 10, 2021 6:45:35 GMT
I'm embarrassed to say this, but after posting my "final" comments and talking a bit more in this thread, it occurred to me that there was, in fact, a perfect way to articulate my feelings on this story and explain why it sparked such an intense reaction. And so while it may be a bit overdue to say, I'll keep kicking myself if I don't post it here: Free Speech posits a world where society is structured around people like me. A world where my way of life would be the norm, not the exception.I'm ashamed to say that it never even occurred to me to imagine such a world, because I am so accustomed to thinking of myself as being "wrong." Yep, that was pretty much my experience of being ace-orientated. Unusual was the word I eventually settled on. I didn't consider it to be a particularly dirty word, but people can be surprisingly narrow-minded about these sorts of things sometimes. That was a very small IRL group, though, and I've certainly no complaints about the forum. I've never had an issue. I've even had people ask me about it, out of good-tempered curiosity. In my personal experience, it's difficult for me to seek out particular kinds of media that cater to that aspect of my personality because... The broader rules are still being codified under my feet. It's so new, so recent in its recognition, that there are a lot of grey areas. Just by nature of what it is. More often than not, finding the character/story covering positively it in any detail is just straightforward serendipity. A happy accident while examining something else. It is nice when it does show up, though. I appreciate that mindfulness. I've only read a little bit about asexuality, but enough to suspect that I might, perhaps, be able to apply the term to myself. It's not necessarily a total absence of sexual desire, right? I can definitely relate to being terribly confused in school by how so many of my classmates seemed to conceive of literally everything in terms of sex. Growing up with mutism presented similar bewilderment, albeit much earlier. I have very clear memories of preschool, kindergarten and early elementary school of being just... totally baffled at how everyone else was able to communicate. It was like everyone else in the world could read each others' minds--I now know that this is because of nonverbal communication like body language and facial expressions, but as a kid it was almost frightening how everyone around me could do this. I'd think... who taught them how to do this? Where did they learn the rules? And then, of course, come puberty and all those rules change, and what little I'd managed to learn by then was suddenly worthless. It was very special. I suspect the ASD thing may have helped me here, as I'd very likely have been driven to madness or suicide had I been unable to retreat entirely into my own worlds. Which may possibly have harmed me in the long run. It's one thing for a teacher or adult in authority to ignore a child who doesn't speak; it's quite another to ignore a child who's curled up in a corner reading. The one is socially acceptable, the other is not. ...I'm probably talking too much about this. So I'll leave it at that for now. (But out of respect for that promise I made to myself--I can't remember if I mentioned it here? To stop lying, through falsity, misrepresentation or omission--I should clarify that, of course, I absolutely did attempt suicide as a result of these problems. Several times. The attempts were obviously unsuccessful and I wouldn't recommend it. I suspect without the single-minded focus the ASD lent me, those attempts would have been far more numerous and successful. When I talk about being in a crowded room, unable to speak, I'm not speaking generally: I'm describing the event that triggered my last attempt.)
|
|
|
Post by elkawho on Jan 10, 2021 16:29:40 GMT
Oh, Kestrel thank you for sharing such personal information. I'm so sorry you felt so lost and hopeless that you attempted suicide, and how happy that you didn't succeed. You are truly valued here in this little community. I hope that you feel that way, and that you feel valued in your life. Your posts have given me quite a new perspective on how people relate to each other. Thanks again.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2021 21:39:02 GMT
I'm embarrassed to say this, but after posting my "final" comments and talking a bit more in this thread, it occurred to me that there was, in fact, a perfect way to articulate my feelings on this story and explain why it sparked such an intense reaction. And so while it may be a bit overdue to say, I'll keep kicking myself if I don't post it here: Free Speech posits a world where society is structured around people like me. A world where my way of life would be the norm, not the exception.I'm ashamed to say that it never even occurred to me to imagine such a world, because I am so accustomed to thinking of myself as being "wrong." Yep, that was pretty much my experience of being ace-orientated. Unusual was the word I eventually settled on. I didn't consider it to be a particularly dirty word, but people can be surprisingly narrow-minded about these sorts of things sometimes. That was a very small IRL group, though, and I've certainly no complaints about the forum. I've never had an issue. I've even had people ask me about it, out of good-tempered curiosity. In my personal experience, it's difficult for me to seek out particular kinds of media that cater to that aspect of my personality because... The broader rules are still being codified under my feet. It's so new, so recent in its recognition, that there are a lot of grey areas. Just by nature of what it is. More often than not, finding the character/story covering positively it in any detail is just straightforward serendipity. A happy accident while examining something else. It is nice when it does show up, though. I appreciate that mindfulness. I've only read a little bit about asexuality, but enough to suspect that I might, perhaps, be able to apply the term to myself. It's not necessarily a total absence of sexual desire, right? I can definitely relate to being terribly confused in school by how so many of my classmates seemed to conceive of literally everything in terms of sex.
Growing up with mutism presented similar bewilderment, albeit much earlier. I have very clear memories of preschool, kindergarten and early elementary school of being just... totally baffled at how everyone else was able to communicate. It was like everyone else in the world could read each others' minds--I now know that this is because of nonverbal communication like body language and facial expressions, but as a kid it was almost frightening how everyone around me could do this. I'd think... who taught them how to do this? Where did they learn the rules? And then, of course, come puberty and all those rules change, and what little I'd managed to learn by then was suddenly worthless. It was very special. I suspect the ASD thing may have helped me here, as I'd very likely have been driven to madness or suicide had I been unable to retreat entirely into my own worlds. Which may possibly have harmed me in the long run. It's one thing for a teacher or adult in authority to ignore a child who doesn't speak; it's quite another to ignore a child who's curled up in a corner reading. The one is socially acceptable, the other is not. ...I'm probably talking too much about this. So I'll leave it at that for now. (But out of respect for that promise I made to myself--I can't remember if I mentioned it here? To stop lying, through falsity, misrepresentation or omission--I should clarify that, of course, I absolutely did attempt suicide as a result of these problems. Several times. The attempts were obviously unsuccessful and I wouldn't recommend it. I suspect without the single-minded focus the ASD lent me, those attempts would have been far more numerous and successful. When I talk about being in a crowded room, unable to speak, I'm not speaking generally: I'm describing the event that triggered my last attempt.)Absolutely right. Being ace isn't a binary (yes or no), so it can constitute a multitude of identities under the umbrella and on the respective spectrum (asexuals, aromantics, aro-aces, grey-aces, and so on). It's whatever you feel comfortable identifying with. Okay. Well, thank you for sharing your insights for us. I certainly feel more informed on the subject of mutism, and that personal perspective, than I did at the beginning of the thread. And I'm delighted that you chose, quite deliberately and earnestly, to live in spite of the despair. Speaking with personal experience, on both sides of suicide prevention, that's a very brave thing to do. Living always is.
|
|
|
Post by Kestrel on Jan 13, 2021 7:10:17 GMT
I honestly don't know how to respond to all this. This is, quite literally, the most open and personal discussion I've had in my life. All I can say is, simply: thank you all for your kindness--I appreciate it greatly.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 9:18:19 GMT
|
|
|
Post by eugeniep on Jan 17, 2021 11:03:09 GMT
I honestly don't know how to respond to all this. This is, quite literally, the most open and personal discussion I've had in my life. All I can say is, simply: thank you all for your kindness--I appreciate it greatly. Hi Kestrel, thank you so much for sharing your experience. Let me join the chorus and say that I am so sorry that you had such a rough time, and so, so glad that you're still alive and with us. I freely confess that mutism didn't cross my mind when I wrote this story. As other posters have correctly identified, it did come down to a lack of awareness. It is certainly not something you hear much about. Your post has certainly opened my eyes a lot. As an amateur writer (you were right about that!) this is exactly the sort of perspective I'm grateful to hear. It helps me become a better writer, and hopefully a better person going forward! Regarding fiction with mute characters, can I recommend the book "Blabbermouth" by Morris Gleitzman? It's a children's book which came out in the early 1990s. The main character, Rowena, is mute, and the book covers her trials and misadventures as she starts a new school. It's been ages since I read it, but I remember it being very engaging. (Morris Gleitzman was recently the Australian Children's Laureate, and a very good writer). It was told in first person, so you really got inside the character's head. There's another YA book I recommend called "So Much to Tell You" by John Marsden (another Aussie author). The main character - 14 year old Marina - doesn't speak, as she's suffered a recent, and violent, family trauma. The book is in diary form, and follows her life as she starts a new boarding school (seems to be a theme here!). The book is about how she gradually heals and finds her 'voice' again. Not quite the same thing as selective mutism, but certainly an interesting read!
|
|
|
Post by theotherjosh on Mar 19, 2021 4:19:36 GMT
I really enjoyed this story! It's such a uniquely Doctor Who tale!
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on May 18, 2023 21:22:01 GMT
Another Review
Regards
mark687
|
|