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Post by Kestrel on Jan 7, 2021 7:58:46 GMT
Another one for the Index!
Mostly I've been limiting myself to making these threads for stories I've listened to, and remember well enough to discuss to some meaningful extent (YMMV). 'Omega' is the exception. I forget why it came up, I think I saw a three-pack listed in a recent BF sale that was unavailable for purchase, but I recently realized that there was a trilogy of stories in early MR I wasn't aware of: Omega, Davros and Master--corresponding to the 47th, 48th and 49th releases.
I've already listened to Master, which I liked quite a bit, and I think I've also listened to Davros, though I don't remember much (was this the story included in the I, Davros boxset that took place way, way after Skaro?). But Omega?
Honestly I'm not sure I've ever even seen Omega in the TV show. If I did, I remember very little.
So I'm mainly here just to ask the question: should I prioritize MR 047 and move it up in my queue? Does the story work well if I'm not enamored, or even terribly familiar with, the titular character?
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 7, 2021 12:09:09 GMT
The story works really well for me as it plays with expectations
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Post by grinch on Jan 7, 2021 22:27:03 GMT
I remember listening to it at the time I was of two minds as to how Omega was presented in this. Certainly a far cry from his depiction in The Three Doctors but looking back I rather have to give the story credit for trying something completely different with the character.
Do wonder what this story would have been like though had it focused on the Celestial Toymaker as was originally planned.
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 8, 2021 22:32:02 GMT
It took me two listens to actually completely understand the story.
But then I actually started to appreciate it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 22:39:26 GMT
It took me two listens to actually completely understand the story. I find that always happens with the best stories... it's the stuff you miss on the first pass that often adds the detail to really get a story. |
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Post by elkawho on Jan 9, 2021 16:20:28 GMT
I like this story a lot, and I remember seeing a lot of bad reviews of it after I had heard it. I was completely baffled why it had gotten those reviews. It was the same with Seasons of Fear. I just thought I had different tastes than most of the listeners.
So, anyway, I like this one! I used to like it more than Master (I know, sacrilege!) but I don't think that's the case anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2021 16:26:37 GMT
I like this story a lot, and I remember seeing a lot of bad reviews of it after I had heard it. I was completely baffled why it had gotten those reviews. It was the same with Seasons of Fear. I just thought I had different tastes than most of the listeners. So, anyway, I like this one! I used to like it more than Master (I know, sacrilege!) but I don't think that's the case anymore. Woah woah people don’t like seasons of fear!? I thought it was regarded as one of the all time greats, at least i do  |
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Post by elkawho on Jan 9, 2021 16:29:12 GMT
I like this story a lot, and I remember seeing a lot of bad reviews of it after I had heard it. I was completely baffled why it had gotten those reviews. It was the same with Seasons of Fear. I just thought I had different tastes than most of the listeners. So, anyway, I like this one! I used to like it more than Master (I know, sacrilege!) but I don't think that's the case anymore. Woah woah people don’t like seasons of fear!? I thought it was regarded as one of the all time greats, at least i do  Yeah, I know!! It's definitely one of my all time greats. I listen to it a lot! |
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Post by Kestrel on Jan 10, 2021 6:54:47 GMT
It took me two listens to actually completely understand the story. I find that always happens with the best stories... it's the stuff you miss on the first pass that often adds the detail to really get a story. Ahahahaha... I find I must agree. I've only started to relisten to some of my favorites very recently (just Forever Fallen and Company of Friends so far), but in each case I've been even more impressed on the second-run. Company of Friends, especially, as what I remember of that story is really only the very last, 30-minute episode! |
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jan 14, 2021 23:50:12 GMT
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Post by mark687 on Jan 26, 2021 22:57:53 GMT
I'm one of those so and so's who got the twist way before I think were supposed to the reactions to Disposal Aftermath don't play right.
Performances are good but varied Caroline Munro goes a bit OTT too early. Hugo "Knightmare" is a bit unjustly type-cast perhaps
Regards
mark687
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Post by Kestrel on Jan 26, 2021 23:57:54 GMT
Well, I just finished the set and I did not get the twist... though I was suspicious from the very beginning: I really can't imagine the Doctor ever just popping into Gallifreyan space for fun, ever, let alone a Gallifreyan tourist trap. Personally I'm a bit mixed on this episode. I didn't not like it--I enjoyed it immensely--but it just didn't quite come together into a cohesive story for me. It felt like they had two really good ideas for a story, and then tried to jam them together: there's the whole Mad Doctor thing, which is great fun, but then there's also the backstory with Omega's childhood, the experiment that killed him, and the power of stories. And it's the second one that really drew me in: how incredible would it have been for an I, Davros-style Omega story? You wouldn't even need to alter the premise of this story much to do it in the Monthly Range: simply have Omega's consciousness invade the Doctor's, trapping the two in a fake world created using both the real Omega's memories as well as the stories and myths and legends of Omega that the Doctor is aware of. We could've even had more introspective scenes, where Omega and the Doctor talk about the "memories" they see unfolding before them. Anyway, as per my usual routine, some scattered thoughts: - I suppose it's likely several decades too late to be worrying about this, but the semi-mythical co-creator of the Time Lord civilization names his starship... Eurydice. That's... very peculiar. Things like this (which are not uncommon) might make more sense if we assume that the Other (was the Doctor, and) had some fixation on Earth even back then--though didn't Omega die prior to the invention of time travel, several millennia before human life evolved on Earth? I dunno. It's odd. Maybe the Greek demigods were named after Time Lord myths, somehow?
- Speaking of: in the 'museum' there's a hologram of Zagreus: it's been a while since I listened to the pertinent story, but wasn't Zagreus a mythical figure?
- The justification for the Gallifreyans running these historical reenactment centers is pretty flimsy and doesn't make much sense in-universe, but they're fun so I don't mind. Still, they could have simply said it was some primitive form of traditional theater, ala Noh or Bunraku.
- I absolutely loved the scene where Omega condemned Scentia(so?) because she forgave him so easily. There's something wonderfully tragic about a person who hates themself so much that they cannot respect anyone who accepts, freely and unconditionally, those aspects of themselves that they most hate. It's also wonderful to see an antagonist with an actual conscience, wracked by guilt. It makes the antagonist more empathetic as well as, perhaps paradoxically, more threatening: it's one thing to commit evil acts because you do not think them evil; quite another to know what you're doing is evil and commit anyway.
- Interesting note: the Doctor comments on their being several tourists present from time-traveling civilizations... which would, presumably, place this story during Romana's tenure as "lord high president of the high council of Gallifrey," or to use the more familiar term, LHPotHCoG. I haven't yet listened to The Apocalypse Element (it's next up, though) so I'm not 100% certain, but I thought Romana ascended to the presidency sometime after the 6th Doctor's era, relatively speaking. Since we eventually find out that the Time Lords sent the Doctor here, it's possible they grabbed the wrong one, so that this story takes place in the "future" from the 5th Doctor's perspective--and from the local perspective, it's being visited by time-travelers from both the relative future and relative past.
- And then there's the CPA, or Celestial Preservation Agency. Possibly they are from the "present" relative the tour--this is the kind of agency Romana might think up--but a more interesting explanation might be that the CPA represents the new version of the CIA, post-Time War. Possibly after the 12th Doctor's presidency, too. The CPA would fit with a new, post-war Gallifrey that's mostly just trying to keep a low profile and minimizing the amount of interference in the timelines: preservation instead of intervention. Just an idea.
And lastly I have a moral general thought, which I'd like to pose to all of you in the form of a question: does anyone else think that the 5th Doctor works better without any companions? |
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Post by mark687 on Jan 27, 2021 0:40:53 GMT
Well, I just finished the set and I did not get the twist... though I was suspicious from the very beginning: I really can't imagine the Doctor ever just popping into Gallifreyan space for fun, ever, let alone a Gallifreyan tourist trap. Personally I'm a bit mixed on this episode. I didn't not like it--I enjoyed it immensely--but it just didn't quite come together into a cohesive story for me. It felt like they had two really good ideas for a story, and then tried to jam them together: there's the whole Mad Doctor thing, which is great fun, but then there's also the backstory with Omega's childhood, the experiment that killed him, and the power of stories. And it's the second one that really drew me in: how incredible would it have been for an I, Davros-style Omega story? You wouldn't even need to alter the premise of this story much to do it in the Monthly Range: simply have Omega's consciousness invade the Doctor's, trapping the two in a fake world created using both the real Omega's memories as well as the stories and myths and legends of Omega that the Doctor is aware of. We could've even had more introspective scenes, where Omega and the Doctor talk about the "memories" they see unfolding before them. Anyway, as per my usual routine, some scattered thoughts: - I suppose it's likely several decades too late to be worrying about this, but the semi-mythical co-creator of the Time Lord civilization names his starship... Eurydice. That's... very peculiar. Things like this (which are not uncommon) might make more sense if we assume that the Other (was the Doctor, and) had some fixation on Earth even back then--though didn't Omega die prior to the invention of time travel, several millennia before human life evolved on Earth? I dunno. It's odd. Maybe the Greek demigods were named after Time Lord myths, somehow?
- Speaking of: in the 'museum' there's a hologram of Zagreus: it's been a while since I listened to the pertinent story, but wasn't Zagreus a mythical figure?
- The justification for the Gallifreyans running these historical reenactment centers is pretty flimsy and doesn't make much sense in-universe, but they're fun so I don't mind. Still, they could have simply said it was some primitive form of traditional theater, ala Noh or Bunraku.
- I absolutely loved the scene where Omega condemned Scentia(so?) because she forgave him so easily. There's something wonderfully tragic about a person who hates themself so much that they cannot respect anyone who accepts, freely and unconditionally, those aspects of themselves that they most hate. It's also wonderful to see an antagonist with an actual conscience, wracked by guilt. It makes the antagonist more empathetic as well as, perhaps paradoxically, more threatening: it's one thing to commit evil acts because you do not think them evil; quite another to know what you're doing is evil and commit anyway.
- Interesting note: the Doctor comments on their being several tourists present from time-traveling civilizations... which would, presumably, place this story during Romana's tenure as "lord high president of the high council of Gallifrey," or to use the more familiar term, LHPotHCoG. I haven't yet listened to The Apocalypse Element (it's next up, though) so I'm not 100% certain, but I thought Romana ascended to the presidency sometime after the 6th Doctor's era, relatively speaking. Since we eventually find out that the Time Lords sent the Doctor here, it's possible they grabbed the wrong one, so that this story takes place in the "future" from the 5th Doctor's perspective--and from the local perspective, it's being visited by time-travelers from both the relative future and relative past.
- And then there's the CPA, or Celestial Preservation Agency. Possibly they are from the "present" relative the tour--this is the kind of agency Romana might think up--but a more interesting explanation might be that the CPA represents the new version of the CIA, post-Time War. Possibly after the 12th Doctor's presidency, too. The CPA would fit with a new, post-war Gallifrey that's mostly just trying to keep a low profile and minimizing the amount of interference in the timelines: preservation instead of intervention. Just an idea.
And lastly I have a moral general thought, which I'd like to pose to all of you in the form of a question: does anyone else think that the 5th Doctor works better without any companions?
Absolutely as last years recent Resales demonstrate, he seems far relaxed and confidant about himself around passing contacts then his Companions. Regards mark687 |
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Post by Kestrel on Jan 27, 2021 0:47:14 GMT
Resales?
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Post by mark687 on Jan 27, 2021 1:00:42 GMT
Releases sorry Regards mark687 |
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Post by Kestrel on Jan 27, 2021 3:06:16 GMT
Ahahaha.... I am no stranger to the Wild and bizarre world of inane autocorrections.
But, yeah, I agree. Wicked Sisters was a bit... weird w/r/t companions, but Davison was solo (more or less) in both Shadow of the Dalek releases, and Thin Time, both of which were pretty good. I think when the 5th Doctor is working with companions he tends to shift into a more managerial role, and winds up being a more reactive character as a result.
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