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Post by theillusiveman on Mar 17, 2021 13:05:21 GMT
43 Mins in and its quite good very atmospheric
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Post by shallacatop on Mar 17, 2021 14:40:27 GMT
I really enjoyed this! I don't know much about the original, but I think the adaptation is pretty good. It's seeped in atmosphere, which makes for a nice visual contrast to the bright white of Nerva. The soundtrack and sound design is particularly good, hats off to Nick Briggs for that (who gets a lot of credits at the end!). The guest cast is great, it's good as a Cyberman story with those distinctive Invasion-esque voices and it's well paced thanks to some 25 minute and under episodes; the cliffhangers really land.
Of course, the real standout is our beloved Season 12 TARDIS team. Tom sounds like he's having the time of his life, Sadie and Christopher get the essences of Sarah and Harry and are occasionally uncanny. I can't wait to see what comes next and I'm glad we have another story with Sadie announced, as the story does write her out a little in the middle, as per the original story, I'm sure.
I do wish the original ending that was shared was included, though. I thought it was really effective.
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Post by mark687 on Mar 17, 2021 14:49:22 GMT
Oh this was good!
Sadie Miller is virtually identical sounding to her Mum as she sounded in the 70s, there are moments where you can imagine its a lost studio soundtrack. Chris Naylor's good as Harry (though I must admit Harry never made a massive impression on me. as fine as Ian Marter's performance was.)
Nichols Grace as Kellmen is perfect casting and the sound-scape accurate and authentic.
Controversially the cherry on the cake that completes making "Return" better than "Revenge" is the complete re imagining of the scenes on Voga a much better and tighter story point IMO.
Very good work all involved
Regards
mark687
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Post by newt5996 on Mar 17, 2021 15:02:33 GMT
Honestly I went into this not expecting much, but I really enjoyed what I heard. Revenge of the Cybermen was the second classic Doctor Who story I ever saw and was never really impressed with it at all (the pacing is such a problem and it just drags and drags). Return kind of shows that Robert Holmes' edits to the script may have actually been to its detriment, and Dorney's adaptation is wonderful. Miller and Naylor also shine and I hope we get more of this team.
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Post by shallacatop on Mar 17, 2021 15:28:57 GMT
Controversially the cherry on the cake that completes making "Return" better than "Revenge" is the complete re imagining of the scenes on Voga a much better and tighter story point IMO. I think that's a great point that I forgot to say in my own post. I agree with you there, the Voga content is better realised in Return and gives it the edge.
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Post by sherlock on Mar 17, 2021 15:46:00 GMT
Halfway through and I’m loving the atmosphere of this, which the score helps immensely. I’m not really in a position to compare to Revenge as I’ve only seen it once, some years ago, but glancing at the Wiki synopsis it’s interesting how things have been shuffled around in this adaptation.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 17:16:28 GMT
Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Very faithful to both the original script and TV serial, whilst capturing the spirit of the Tom Baker era - all thanks to John Dorney. Not to mention Nick Briggs' score and sound design, reminds me a lot of Dudley Simpson composing the Classic serials. I think Elisabeth would be very proud of her daughter Sadie, as a lifelong fan of Sarah Jane Smith. Same with Christopher Naylor doing his Ian Marter impression, also outstanding. Well done, guys!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2021 18:06:21 GMT
I have to join in with the overwhelming positivity regarding this release. It really is something wonderful, and for those who remember the short-lived Doctor/Harry/Sarah team, rather touching. Of the two recasts, I'd say Christopher Naylor is more consistent as Harry, never sounding far off Ian Marter. Sometimes Sadie Miller doesn't sound like her beautiful, fondly remembered mother - but when she does, it is quite uncanny. I have nothing but good things to say about the three leads here and the thought of more from the 'new' Series12 TARDIS team makes me very happy. Sound design and music, as others have said, is excellent, with echoes of other Cyber-stories (I loved the music Nick Briggs did for Sword of Orion all those years ago, and this score reminds me of that. A lovely, chilling, Cyber-score!). John Dorney's adaption is great, packed with incident and noticeably fast paced, which made the episodes whizz by.
Excellent!
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melkur
Chancellery Guard
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Post by melkur on Mar 18, 2021 0:19:15 GMT
Whilst I'm not going to say that I 'loved' this release, it was certainly a whole lot better than I was expecting and a pleasant way of spending a walk into town...
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Post by sherlock on Mar 18, 2021 1:37:26 GMT
Having finished this now, I don’t think I’m as amazed as others. The first half was nicely atmospheric but the second kinda didn’t do anything with it. The Cybermen just kinda stand around barking orders, till everything comes crashing down on them. All in all it was fine, just nothing spectacular.
Miller and Naylor’s debuts were solid enough. Naylor got more of a showing and I think performed well. Miller didn’t get a great deal of material, but does capture Sarah Jane well. This is a TARDIS team I’d be happy to hear more of.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2021 10:13:51 GMT
I ended up downloading both this and The Doomsday Contract today back-to-back. I'll talk about the other in the relevant thread, but Return of the Cybermen has scratched a longstanding itch when it comes to Revenge. I think this story might have the Midas touch. For a script that could have so easily been a 'Best Hits' collection of Gerry Davis's Cyber-scripts, Return is something altogether rather remarkable. It's a fundamentally traditional tale, but it's been so long since we've heard something of its like that the concepts almost feel fresh. Helped in no small part by just how cohesive it is.
The rapport between our TARDIS trio is there from their first materialisation and -- despite some production anachronisms -- everyone gets a good showing here. Harry, especially. Almost in a way that he didn't quite get on television. The teamwork behind the Cybermen's defeat is a lot more satisfying. The pace, likewise, never gets the opportunity to slacken before we're given another imaginative set piece. The crusher, the mines, the storage rooms, they all contribute towards a steam engine of a plot. Scarves off to John Dorney for fleshing that out for audio.
Season 12 isn't a particularly well-trodden part of the Fourth Doctor's life, but Return seems to breathe it quite readily and naturally. This could easily be a backdoor pilot to more from this team and if so... We'd be in very safe hands.
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Post by Whovitt on Mar 18, 2021 23:04:33 GMT
As someone who unaccountably loves Revenge of the Cybermen (something that I'm led to believe is fairly uncommon), I enjoyed the hell out of this! It was similar yet different enough that it felt like I was getting to watch the story again for the first time and it was kind of magical. I think the first half was considerably better than the second, but the first was so good it still managed raise my opinion of the second. Christopher Naylor absolutely nailed Harry! In terms of impressions, he's up there with Culshaw as the Brig. Every now and then he didn't quite sound like Harry, but the vocal characteristics were always spot on. It's amazing to finally have Harry back, especially with this kind of performance As for Sadie, there were definitely moments in there where she sounded *exactly* like her mother. However, there were considerably more moments where she didn't. This was her first time playing the character though, I'm sure she's only going to get more consistent with further stories. I'm looking forward to hearing her again May's Third Doctor Adventures If there's one criticism I have for the story, it's that both Christopher and Sadie seemed to be racing through their lines in the first couple of episodes. It almost seemed like they could only make it to the studio for one hour and had no choice but to say all their lines as quickly as possible and leave. But they slowed things down a bit for the last two episodes and there were moments where I felt like I was listening to the original Season 12 team together again. I can't wait for BF to do a Season 12 reunion in the Fourth Doctor Adventures! (I'll have to wait until 2028 or something like that before I get to hear it though... )
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Mar 18, 2021 23:40:38 GMT
This was great. The classic gang are back together
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2021 2:35:31 GMT
As someone who unaccountably loves Revenge of the Cybermen (something that I'm led to believe is fairly uncommon), I enjoyed the hell out of this! It was similar yet different enough that it felt like I was getting to watch the story again for the first time and it was kind of magical. I think the first half was considerably better than the second, but the first was so good it still managed raise my opinion of the second. Christopher Naylor absolutely nailed Harry! In terms of impressions, he's up there with Culshaw as the Brig. Every now and then he didn't quite sound like Harry, but the vocal characteristics were always spot on. It's amazing to finally have Harry back, especially with this kind of performance As for Sadie, there were definitely moments in there where she sounded *exactly* like her mother. However, there were considerably more moments where she didn't. This was her first time playing the character though, I'm sure she's only going to get more consistent with further stories. I'm looking forward to hearing her again May's Third Doctor Adventures If there's one criticism I have for the story, it's that both Christopher and Sadie seemed to be racing through their lines in the first couple of episodes. It almost seemed like they could only make it to the studio for one hour and had no choice but to say all their lines as quickly as possible and leave. But they slowed things down a bit for the last two episodes and there were moments where I felt like I was listening to the original Season 12 team together again. I can't wait for BF to do a Season 12 reunion in the Fourth Doctor Adventures! (I'll have to wait until 2028 or something like that before I get to hear it though... ) Eh, popularity is no guarantee of enjoyability. I will say, as good as it was to hear the Big Finish Invasion-era Cybermen again, I did miss one small cosmetic detail with the CyberNomads. Their four-barrelled headpieces. No other variation of the Cybermen outside of their Mondasian forebears (and their Real Time successors) seemed to glean to the practicality of having armaments built into, and activated by, the body. Makes it terribly difficult to snatch a cyborg's armament away and use it against them. At least... Not without having a particularly dedicated surgeon on hand (to salvage from their chests what must be the universe's loudest accordion).
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Post by pawntake on Mar 19, 2021 8:05:46 GMT
Having finished this now, I don’t think I’m as amazed as others. Same here!Promising start very atmospheric then it just did'nt take-off a tad disappointing if you ask me!Which just goes to prove how different people's opinion can be!
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Post by theillusiveman on Mar 19, 2021 12:02:04 GMT
Really enjoyable release Tom, Chris and Sadie sound like they had a whale of a time
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2021 12:42:14 GMT
I thought the Return of the Cybermen was very enjoyable, way better than the End of the Beginning anyway. I didn't particularly think Sadie Miller and Christopher Naylor sounded like Sarah-Jane Smith or Harry Sullivan, but they sounded like they were having fun and they fitted in with the story perfectly as a new take on something familiar... which basically sums up Return of the Cybermen. You felt like you've heard bits of it before, but then along comes something different. It was like a comfy pair of old slippers though and Return of the Cybermen could easily fit in as a season 12 story. Sadie and Christopher will make a good team if we get more Fourth Doctor stories with Sarah and Harry, which I'm sure we will... although I'd personally be just as happy with the unholy trinity of recasts together and have Sadie's Sarah-Jane in a 3DA along with Jon Culshaw's Brigadier.
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Post by Ian McArdell on Mar 19, 2021 23:13:41 GMT
I thought the Return of the Cybermen was very enjoyable, way better than the End of the Beginning anyway. I didn't particularly think Sadie Miller and Christopher Naylor sounded like Sarah-Jane Smith or Harry Sullivan, but they sounded like they were having fun and they fitted in with the story perfectly as a new take on something familiar... which basically sums up Return of the Cybermen. You felt like you've heard bits of it before, but then along comes something different. It was like a comfy pair of old slippers though and Return of the Cybermen could easily fit in as a season 12 story. Sadie and Christopher will make a good team if we get more Fourth Doctor stories with Sarah and Harry, which I'm sure we will... although I'd personally be just as happy with the unholy trinity of recasts together and have Sadie's Sarah-Jane in a 3DA along with Jon Culshaw's Brigadier.
Fear not - the next 3DA has Jon Culshaw's Brig, Sadie Miller's Sarah, Daisy Ashford's Liz and Tim Treloar's 3rd Doctor. I know it's a deal-breaker for some, but I'm happy that BF are making stories set in this era of the show... and there's only so many Katy Manning can do, I suppose.
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Post by Ian McArdell on Mar 19, 2021 23:15:11 GMT
My take on Return of the Cybermen is now up at CultBox - an interesting experiment, and I though the two recast roles were great.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2021 7:19:46 GMT
Finally a day off with no stress lol so after the disappointment of Stranded 2 am hoping for a little enjoyable listening... more later
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