The Spirits of Christmas Discussion (Spoilers ok)

Desperately Seeking Santa

All Through The House

This really feels like a "proper" finale for Series 4.

Like, don't get me wrong, Series 4 was well enough, and The Living Image was great, but the season as a whole meandered a bit and didn't have a great sense of moving things forward. With these two episode capping it off though, it finally feels like a proper season, with a real sense of progression and a proper finale and setup to leave us waiting for what comes next.

And jesus, what does come next?

Will be interesting to see what form Series 5 takes after the events of All Through the House.

Having now listened to 'Desperately Seeking Santa' I just want to say that, whoever thought to cast David Warner as Santa deserves an award. What an irresistable combination. Really loved this scary, grisly, macabre story. Genuine horror. Absolutely love these stories.

I agree happily ever after doesn't exactly seem fitting for Dorian Gray but I am also hoping it won't end bitterly ever after either. Now something bittersweet would be just right.




I was also over thinking of this stories connection with the living image

My favorite bit so far is the reference to the Skin Walkers from the Dark Shadows story of the same name.

What a great pair of stories!

And part 2 of Leng's write up

sparkymalarkey.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/how-i-ended-up-writing-audio-drama-part_20.html?m=1

Exactly. And the thing with Oscar's novel is that it was never explicitly stated that Dorian gave up his soul physically (if you can that about a soul). He merely said that he would willingly give it up in exchange for eternal youth and given the year it was written, I'd say his intention to do so alone would be deemed immoral enough, so to speak, and quite literally the only thing that matters, I think.

Dorian is cruel not because he's got no soul. It's because he's selfish and often indifferent to human suffering, but like he says in We Are Everywhere,He feels guilt and that's why he drives a dagger into the canvas, . His selling his soul seems to me a mere attempt to emphasise Dorian's budding obsession with appearing beautiful and being able to pursue a hedonistic lifestyle.

In Blank Canvas, Well, yea he doesn't need it to walk about, he doesn't need it to breathe, to eat, or even feel emotions. I think it's rather bothering to have the soul as a thing you can literally trade when it doesn't do anything other thanFor Odin's sake, it's not even 'all that you are' as the Deacon would say. Then why bother?

But I suppose it does bring out Dorian's regret and helplessness when he talks about not having a soul in CODG because what he's essentially saying is that he made a stupid choice, one that represents all his past wrong-doings (because they all stemmed from his selfishness) and one he had to live with forever.

Sorry for going out of topic.

I was under the impression that novel Dorian's soul was the painting itself and every misdeed and sin of Dorian's was etched on his painting or his true soul. It's all very symbolic of course. He was beautiful on the outside but ugly on the inside.

In Confessions the painting also takes on his sins but it also takes on any physical harms. It's what makes him immortal. Also Confessions Dorian is not disgusted with his painting in the same way Dorian in the novel is. He accepts it is a part of him.  In many ways it's the only confidant he has. And while he doesn't show it to everyone in the world, he does show it to a few people he considers close. He is showing an important part of himself to them.



Exactly I wouldn't blame any of Dorian's mistakes and who he is as a person on not having a soul. As he said in Enigma "he a self-made man". He makes his own choices.





Right and I do wonder exactly what he lost by not having it? Although I do find it interesting that in Delphine he said he could feel the sense of emptiness where a soul should have been. Could he physically feel not having a soul? Or was he just being poetic in his regret there?




Not off topic I thought this was the best board to discuss this topic because Dorian's soul is returned to him in this story. And I wonder if we will find out what that means for him. I did admit my fangirl self might have squeed a bit at the line that Toby had his soul the entire time (right at the same time it was being ripped in two....lol) .

And thinking on that track I guess you could argue that the real consequence of Dorian giving up his soul was actually nothing. Or the consequence or gift of no soul was his immortality.

Dorian initially was worried that he would start aging and dying. So Dorian did seem to think that not having a soul kept him young and immortal. The devil said no you would be as you always were. But the devil/man upstairs did take something from Dorian for giving back his soul. He took Toby. In fact maybe you could argue that the real consequence is not in losing the soul but in getting it back.  And that consequence took an unexpected turn which was even worse for Dorian.



Simon only sounded strange to me because Toby had hypnotized him. He sounded normal during those other times. I am assuming the fact that he now forgets Dorian will come up briefly in series 5.

I hope we're still doing these later in the group listen and not jumping ahead, because I haven't done them yet and figured I'd wait until then!