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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 6, 2021 2:22:05 GMT
Until she (hopefully) returns one day, this is what we have of Sarah Dollard's contributions to Who - a YA-Fantasy infused tale of ticking clocks, magic streets and curses, against Bill's first historical outing at the legendary Frost Fair and a river, literally, full of secrets. But which is better?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 6:34:41 GMT
Both have their strengths a good historical where they actually dressed to mingle in(a sorely missed thing for me).for me and the Doctors interest in a screwdriver than a life.But for me It would be Face the Raven basically for Peters delivery of the threat to Maisie about how small the universe is...so Face The Raven
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Post by theillusiveman on Feb 6, 2021 8:49:25 GMT
Face the raven wins as Clara finally gets KO for good If only it had ended with heaven sent and not the (now second) worst new news who finale- Hell Bent
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Post by grinch on Feb 6, 2021 9:50:17 GMT
I guess Face the Raven? If only because of that one scene where itβs very much made clear that there is still a touch of the Valeyard about the Doctor. Trouble with the story is, itβs basically let down and made pointless by the finale that follows it. Hard to have an emotional send off for a companion when sheβs suddenly made immortal and thus completely indestructible.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Feb 6, 2021 10:28:28 GMT
Thin Ice. Itβs the twelfth Doctor in microcosm, prickly and walled-off but genuinely wanting companionship and genuinely caring about the living while at the same time unwilling to consider the dead because of the piles of desth in his past (which is why heβs so protective of the living). The Doctor has all of time anf space at his fingertips and time and again sees only bigotry and hate and is ground down time and again by it but still sees the world through his friendsβ eyes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 10:45:04 GMT
I guess Face the Raven? If only because of that one scene where itβs very much made clear that there is still a touch of the Valeyard about the Doctor. Trouble with the story is, itβs basically let down and made pointless by the finale that follows it. Hard to have an emotional send off for a companion when sheβs suddenly made immortal and thus completely indestructible. Bit like Jack and now with a timeless Doctor all theses immortals
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Post by mark687 on Feb 6, 2021 12:07:49 GMT
Thin Ice
Proper historical feel, no ambiguity in opinions to negative attitudes, plus they save the innocents people and creature
Regards
mark687
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Post by timegirl on Feb 6, 2021 16:00:21 GMT
This is a tough one! They are both amazing episodes with my favorite Doctor! Face the Raven has a magical setting, interesting side characters, suspense, and one of the most tragic and heartbreaking death scenes in all of Doctor Who! Thin Ice has a really interesting historical setting, also interesting side characters, moral lessons told in an interesting way, and an incredibly badass scene of 12 punching a racist! Iβm going to have to cheat and say itβs a tie!
Side note: Even though I love both of these episodes equally I watch Thin Ice more often than Face The Raven. Face the Raven makes me cry bucket loads because I hate to see 12 loose his beloved Clara, where Thin Ice ends on a much lighter and uplifting note.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 16:02:42 GMT
This is a tough one! They are both amazing episodes with my favorite Doctor! Face the Raven has a magical setting, interesting side characters, suspense, and one of the most tragic and heartbreaking death scenes in all of Doctor Who! Thin Ice has a really interesting historical setting, also interesting side characters, moral lessons told in an interesting way, and an incredibly badass scene of 12 punching a racist! Iβm going to have to cheat and say itβs a tie! Side note: Even though I love both of these episodes equally I watch Thin Ice more often than Face The Raven. Face the Raven makes me cry bucket loads because I hate to see 12 loose his beloved Clara, where Thin Ice ends on a much lighter and uplifting note. For your sake I will ensure one of the Doctors goes back in time and totally rewrites Clara out of existence...just to help you π
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Post by timegirl on Feb 6, 2021 16:07:05 GMT
This is a tough one! They are both amazing episodes with my favorite Doctor! Face the Raven has a magical setting, interesting side characters, suspense, and one of the most tragic and heartbreaking death scenes in all of Doctor Who! Thin Ice has a really interesting historical setting, also interesting side characters, moral lessons told in an interesting way, and an incredibly badass scene of 12 punching a racist! Iβm going to have to cheat and say itβs a tie! Side note: Even though I love both of these episodes equally I watch Thin Ice more often than Face The Raven. Face the Raven makes me cry bucket loads because I hate to see 12 loose his beloved Clara, where Thin Ice ends on a much lighter and uplifting note. For your sake I will ensure one of the Doctors goes back in time and totally rewrites Clara out of existence...just to help you π Noπ youβre evil π π 12 and Clara are happily living together in a cottage in a virtual afterlife in the Matrix on Galifrey with a pet dog and half human half Timelord children.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Feb 6, 2021 16:07:20 GMT
This is a tough one! They are both amazing episodes with my favorite Doctor! Face the Raven has a magical setting, interesting side characters, suspense, and one of the most tragic and heartbreaking death scenes in all of Doctor Who! Thin Ice has a really interesting historical setting, also interesting side characters, moral lessons told in an interesting way, and an incredibly badass scene of 12 punching a racist! Iβm going to have to cheat and say itβs a tie! Side note: Even though I love both of these episodes equally I watch Thin Ice more often than Face The Raven. Face the Raven makes me cry bucket loads because I hate to see 12 loose his beloved Clara, where Thin Ice ends on a much lighter and uplifting note. For your sake I will ensure one of the Doctors goes back in time and totally rewrites Clara out of existence...just to help you π Yes please.
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Post by timegirl on Feb 6, 2021 16:07:43 GMT
For your sake I will ensure one of the Doctors goes back in time and totally rewrites Clara out of existence...just to help you π Yes please. No
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 16:13:06 GMT
For your sake I will ensure one of the Doctors goes back in time and totally rewrites Clara out of existence...just to help you π Noπ youβre evil π π 12 and Clara are happily living together in a cottage in a virtual afterlife in the Matrix on Galifrey with a pet dog and half human half Timelord children. I keep telling you there was no love like Clara and Danny Pink πππ yes am Evil....am off to destroy the Matrix ππ
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Post by timegirl on Feb 6, 2021 16:14:15 GMT
Noπ youβre evil π π 12 and Clara are happily living together in a cottage in a virtual afterlife in the Matrix on Galifrey with a pet dog and half human half Timelord children. I keep telling you there was no love like Clara and Danny Pink πππ yes am Evil....am off to destroy the Matrix ππ You!πππ
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 16:15:10 GMT
I keep telling you there was no love like Clara and Danny Pink πππ yes am Evil....am off to destroy the Matrix ππ You!πππ πππ
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Feb 6, 2021 16:35:31 GMT
Noπ youβre evil π π 12 and Clara are happily living together in a cottage in a virtual afterlife in the Matrix on Galifrey with a pet dog and half human half Timelord children. I keep telling you there was no love like Clara and Danny Pink πππ yes am Evil....am off to destroy the Matrix ππ Poor Danny Pink, treated like rubbish by Clara.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 17:03:48 GMT
I found Face the Raven a little underwhelming, particularly as Clara's 'death' was undone a couple of stories later. I remember thousands of years ago (or so it seems now), when Peri 'died' in Trial of a Timelord, and was then revealed to have lived after all, there was a bit of an uproar amongst fans. Here, not so much. Not that I wish Clara dead, by the way!
Anyway, no such issues with Thin Ice which continued to breathe fresh air into Doctor Who with Series 10 and the wonderful Bill and Twelve combination. A good solid story, terrific production values, and The Doctor throws a punch - I actually think this story could have worked well as a Christmas special.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2021 17:28:39 GMT
If Clara's 'death' had been a proper death and we'd heard of her no more then I'd have gone with Face the Raven but alas twas not to be, plus my memory reminds me that Thin Ice was actually the better story.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
Thereβs a horror movie called Alien? Thatβs really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Feb 7, 2021 0:21:15 GMT
Sarah Dollard is a great writer and this is a hard choice but Iβm going with Thin Ice simply because I enjoy it more that Raven. Raven is great and would be superb even if Clara had lived - it has merits beyond being Claraβs swan song as a living human - but Ice is just superb.
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Post by doctorkernow on Feb 7, 2021 1:08:29 GMT
Hello again.
Sarah Dollard, come back and write another one. Two cracking stories. Face the Raven had such a doom-laden atmosphere, I've met a raven and they weren't happy with their portrayal!
Seriously, the concepts in this and the characterisation of Me were fascinating. The design was great too but that ending. Clara has tried to be too clever, to do a Doctor and pays the price.
Thin Ice is my favourite of the two. I thoroughly enjoyed this. Bill's adventure in history reveals a new side to her alien lecturer. The direction and design are superb you really feel you are actually there.
I love the pace of it and the humour and the contrast between that and the terrible things being done in the name of progress.
The Twelfth Doctor's era is fascinating. Revisiting it, I could see where Mr Moffatt was going. It had a beginning, where Clara was balancing her love of travelling with the Doctor with her relationship with Danny. The middle where both the Doctor and Clara start being reckless and we realise something will happen to stop them. The end where a lovely funny TARDIS team have adventures with the more genial lecturer Doctor and a tragic ending. We also have Missy threading its way through the narrative.
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