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Post by timegirl on May 19, 2021 0:14:39 GMT
Totally agree with you about the universe ending never really feeling threatening! Can DW both with BF and tv just stop using the universe is ending for a while? I feel like there are far more terrifying and interesting things that could be threats. Oddly I have the exact opposite opinion about Nova and Rose. For me the romantic elements between Rose and 9 is what made them feel more real and gave me something to care about watching them. I never once even questioned the age difference because to me they felt like equals in the relationship. It made it feel like the two were somehow more special to each other. The romance made Rose and 9 feel more memorable and emotional and to be honest I wouldn’t not have cared as much as I did about 9 and Rose if that element wasn’t there. With Nova I don’t have as much to hold onto and care about with her relationship with 9. While I wouldn’t want 9 and Nova to necessarily have a romance because not every Doctor/Companion relationship needs to be romantic and I think to give 9 another romance with a character with a similar backstory would cheapen his later love story with Rose, I would like a bit more of reason to care about the relationship between Nova and 9. Some sort of deeper connection between the two. The romantic nonsense is one of the things I have hated since the series came back. The show did quite well for decades without every companion trying to get it on with the Doctor. Same goes for returning to earth so the companion can check in with her boyfriend. I have to be honest and say the romantic aspect of Doctor Who is one of my absolute favorite things. I know it’s not too everyone’s taste and that’s okay, but for me at least I don’t think I would be nearly as invested in DW without the romance. I know it’s a bit blasphemous to say this in whovian circles but the romantic aspect is one of the main reasons I prefer new who to classic. I don’t love every romance in DW (not really a fan of River and the Doctor), but overall there is just a wonderful escapist element of the idea of going off on romantic escapades with a mysterious man in a blue box. It’s almost therapeutic, like watching a slightly more grown up version of a Disney Princess falling in love with her prince. Plus I think there have been some very rich stories that have come out of the Doctor falling in love, my favorite being the epic, tragic and unconventional love story between 12 and Clara. To be honest I would be a lot less interested in Doctor Who without the romance, I mean I would still enjoy it but I don’t think it would capture my imagination quite as much.
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Post by timegirl on May 19, 2021 0:15:02 GMT
I quite like a bit if romance in the tardis. Be it 8 and Charley, 9/10 and rose or the doctor and clara (or even the doctor and the woman from the aztecs lol) always like a well executed love story. In fact, the doctors genuine delight to going on a date was a highlight of this set, after all this is the doctor who “dances” Definitely agree😊
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Post by drj on May 20, 2021 11:11:07 GMT
VERY non-linear. Going to have to listen to it again to appreciate it properly I think. Having said that, I was more than happy to roll with it. Chris is an amazing actor (I know you all know that, but I’m going to say it anyway) and it’s so good he’s back (I refer to the previous bracket). I did like Nova, just the right amount of attitude and talent (I.e. lots!). Am I right in thinking she’s not in the next release? Hope she comes back at some point. Loved some of the dialogue between Audrey and the “I have to rely on advisors” pompous Prime Minister. So relatable if you’ve ever experienced a manager like that. A very solid 4/5 in my books. It’s like a lot of you have said, it’s like he’s never been away. Warms my heart, it really does!
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Post by cwm on May 21, 2021 8:45:10 GMT
The more I think about it, I think I am really quite angry when I consider the quality of some of the material here and the writer's self-confessed ignoring of notes from script editors and the way he treats anyone who is even mildly critical of his writing. This is vanity publishing, pure and simple; if anyone else had submitted the gibberish on display here, it simply wouldn't be produced.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2021 8:50:33 GMT
The more I think about it, I think I am really quite angry when I consider the quality of some of the material here and the writer's self-confessed ignoring of notes from script editors and the way he treats anyone who is even mildly critical of his writing. This is vanity publishing, pure and simple; if anyone else had submitted the gibberish on display here, it simply wouldn't be produced. I wonder if people will be put off the forthcoming Ninth Doctor sets - which are written by different (better?) writers - because of the middling reaction 'Ravagers' has received. That really would be a shot in the foot.
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Post by project37 on May 21, 2021 17:41:11 GMT
The more I think about it, I think I am really quite angry when I consider the quality of some of the material here and the writer's self-confessed ignoring of notes from script editors and the way he treats anyone who is even mildly critical of his writing. This is vanity publishing, pure and simple; if anyone else had submitted the gibberish on display here, it simply wouldn't be produced. It's hard to disagree with the characterization of vanity publishing when the cover design template for the second box set was changed to remove the writing credit.
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Post by thelonecenturion on May 21, 2021 19:48:45 GMT
The more I think about it, I think I am really quite angry when I consider the quality of some of the material here and the writer's self-confessed ignoring of notes from script editors and the way he treats anyone who is even mildly critical of his writing. This is vanity publishing, pure and simple; if anyone else had submitted the gibberish on display here, it simply wouldn't be produced. It's hard to disagree with the characterization of vanity publishing when the cover design template for the second box set was changed to remove the writing credit. It wasn't changed; it never featured a writing credit. There are three writers on the second set, and three stories, rather than a single story in three parts by a single writer. This isn't by any means a special case, as Torchwood: Outbreak (which had one writer per part) doesn't credit the writers on the cover, but Torchwood: Believe (one writer, three parts, same as Ravagers) credits Guy Adams on the front.
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Post by Kestrel on May 21, 2021 20:07:45 GMT
I have to be honest and say the romantic aspect of Doctor Who is one of my absolute favorite things. I know it’s not too everyone’s taste and that’s okay, but for me at least I don’t think I would be nearly as invested in DW without the romance. I don't have anything against romance in principle, it just didn't really work for me with Rose specifically. With the 10th Doctor, it's because the romance consisted mostly of them acting very immature and goofy, which just wasn't a compelling tone from either performer. With the 9th Doctor, however, it just seemed odd because of the noticeable age gap--Christopher Eccleston is nearly 20 years older than Billie Piper. That's a big gap. Furthermore, while there's always an uncomfortable power dynamic at play on the TARDIS w/r/t romance, it's especially bad in the case of companions like Rose whose travels with the Doctor are largely motivated by quiet desperation. For romance to work, I think all involved parties need more equal standing. Romana and River Song, for example, both interact with the Doctor more as equals. The more I think about it, I think I am really quite angry when I consider the quality of some of the material here and the writer's self-confessed ignoring of notes from script editors and the way he treats anyone who is even mildly critical of his writing. This is vanity publishing, pure and simple; if anyone else had submitted the gibberish on display here, it simply wouldn't be produced. I dunno, I don't think it's anywhere near that bad. It's certainly better than a significant portion of stories that end up making it all the way to air on TV, in defiance of all good sense and reason. And the dig at vanity publishing? I mean, no. That's pure absurdity. Have you seen what kinds of things come out of vanity presses? The bottom of the barrel is far, far, far below the worst things Big Finish has ever produced, and Ravagers is far from the worst they've produced.
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Post by timegirl on May 21, 2021 20:18:43 GMT
I have to be honest and say the romantic aspect of Doctor Who is one of my absolute favorite things. I know it’s not too everyone’s taste and that’s okay, but for me at least I don’t think I would be nearly as invested in DW without the romance. I don't have anything against romance in principle, it just didn't really work for me with Rose specifically. With the 10th Doctor, it's because the romance consisted mostly of them acting very immature and goofy, which just wasn't a compelling tone from either performer. With the 9th Doctor, however, it just seemed odd because of the noticeable age gap--Christopher Eccleston is nearly 20 years older than Billie Piper. That's a big gap. Furthermore, while there's always an uncomfortable power dynamic at play on the TARDIS w/r/t romance, it's especially bad in the case of companions like Rose whose travels with the Doctor are largely motivated by quiet desperation. For romance to work, I think all involved parties need more equal standing. Romana and River Song, for example, both interact with the Doctor more as equals. The more I think about it, I think I am really quite angry when I consider the quality of some of the material here and the writer's self-confessed ignoring of notes from script editors and the way he treats anyone who is even mildly critical of his writing. This is vanity publishing, pure and simple; if anyone else had submitted the gibberish on display here, it simply wouldn't be produced. I dunno, I don't think it's anywhere near that bad. It's certainly better than a significant portion of stories that end up making it all the way to air on TV, in defiance of all good sense and reason. And the dig at vanity publishing? I mean, no. That's pure absurdity. Have you seen what kinds of things come out of vanity presses? The bottom of the barrel is far, far, far below the worst things Big Finish has ever produced, and Ravagers is far from the worst they've produced. That’s fair enough 🙂 Personally I never even noticed the age gap between 9 and Rose, they always seemed like they were equals to me. But then again my favorite DW romance is 12 and Clara, and my least favorite is the Doctor and River. To each their own 🤷🏻♀️
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Post by barnabaslives on May 21, 2021 21:36:37 GMT
I have to be honest and say the romantic aspect of Doctor Who is one of my absolute favorite things. I know it’s not too everyone’s taste and that’s okay, but for me at least I don’t think I would be nearly as invested in DW without the romance. I don't have anything against romance in principle, it just didn't really work for me with Rose specifically. With the 10th Doctor, it's because the romance consisted mostly of them acting very immature and goofy, which just wasn't a compelling tone from either performer. With the 9th Doctor, however, it just seemed odd because of the noticeable age gap--Christopher Eccleston is nearly 20 years older than Billie Piper. That's a big gap. Furthermore, while there's always an uncomfortable power dynamic at play on the TARDIS w/r/t romance, it's especially bad in the case of companions like Rose whose travels with the Doctor are largely motivated by quiet desperation. For romance to work, I think all involved parties need more equal standing. Romana and River Song, for example, both interact with the Doctor more as equals. Well -- it's complicated isn't it? lol. This sounds a lot like me not long ago. I hadn't noticed much the age gaps between performers, but between characters it's phenomenal. Even if I disagree in principle with someone complaining that one person in a relationship is two or three times the age of the other or the two are decades apart, you get to "My God, he's a hundred times her age!" and it tries to feel very natural and even proper to object. In reality, my father-in-law made it to 105 and that age you may just not have so many prospects of becoming involved with people your own age, You try to say, "My God, he's 40 years older than mom" and it really doesn't mean anything anymore. I am so very glad for timegirl's perspective on things, that vision of Twelve and Clara is heartwarming and about contagious and more power to it, because like it or not romance did become a part of the New Series and that is really all I know to do about it is either be morally indignant and constantly struggling to ignore it, or try to see the beauty of it. I think with the Ninth Doctor and Rose it was harder to accept because at the time everything was so new except the blue box that it was like one new thing too many? Eventually, it's really not so hard for me to reconcile with the Original Series. After the Time War, the Doctor feels alone and emotionally more vulnerable and more open, and if you're Gallifreyan and you get to be about 2000, maybe you do start to think a bit more about settling down. Maybe most of all is the thing about loss, you have all these people coming and going from your life but maybe you get to the point where just once you wish you could hang onto one of them. I had the thing going about about River Song and Romana - that is something I absolutely adored about Romana is that she was more of the Doctor's equal, and it's funny how that works out - I didn't look to Doctor Who for romance and yet mentally I was always trying to fix him up with a nice Gallifreyan girl his own age, lol. Romana as I now know though had her own destiny awaiting and I don't think the Doctor would have fit into it well. He might still be president of Gallifrey if he had. River is particularly odd, I was willing to accept her as the Doctor's equal and his rightful romance because she seemed like the closest thing but to be honest while she's got plenty of attitude, I'm not really sure she is the best match for the Doctor in attitude, and if I look at all the reasons romance eventually seems natural, that he needs more than ever to be together with someone or that he's tired of losing people or both, a wife who's almost exclusively in absentia doesn't necessarily feel all that right either. All that seems more natural to me because I think it plays forward well, too, all the way to the Thirteenth Doctor's "family", which really shouldn't be in quotation marks, more like she really thinks of them as the family she'd like to have. It may surprise me to think so after the way I've felt about the show ever since I got back into it, but I think timegirl's lovely visions of 12 and Clara aren't just hopeless romanticism, it really is the direction things were pointed in for a long time, and it is what seems natural the minute I'm not on about who's how much older than who. That's interesting, because it means acceptance of the show for whatever it is, which is really how my relationship with Doctor Who began - I didn't have so many "druthers" about what went on. "I liked this better than that" of course, but "They shouldn't have done that" wasn't really part of the deal. That's really a nice thought that I will be able to go back and rewatch all the 12th Doctor episodes and experience it like that rather than having to be offended every three minutes, but it's a very nice perspective on the Doctor being more human as well. It's also very nice getting to make my peace with Clara, she had such a long run that it started to seem like she's overstayed her welcome, but so much of that is really because of the pace the show had set up until then - it would have seemed that way with any companions really. I so much prefer trying to understand in what ways she might really be the Doctor's equal, because I really could accept that she is no matter what a tall order that must be.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2021 21:50:13 GMT
I don't have anything against romance in principle, it just didn't really work for me with Rose specifically. With the 10th Doctor, it's because the romance consisted mostly of them acting very immature and goofy, which just wasn't a compelling tone from either performer. With the 9th Doctor, however, it just seemed odd because of the noticeable age gap--Christopher Eccleston is nearly 20 years older than Billie Piper. That's a big gap. Furthermore, while there's always an uncomfortable power dynamic at play on the TARDIS w/r/t romance, it's especially bad in the case of companions like Rose whose travels with the Doctor are largely motivated by quiet desperation. For romance to work, I think all involved parties need more equal standing. Romana and River Song, for example, both interact with the Doctor more as equals. I dunno, I don't think it's anywhere near that bad. It's certainly better than a significant portion of stories that end up making it all the way to air on TV, in defiance of all good sense and reason. And the dig at vanity publishing? I mean, no. That's pure absurdity. Have you seen what kinds of things come out of vanity presses? The bottom of the barrel is far, far, far below the worst things Big Finish has ever produced, and Ravagers is far from the worst they've produced. That’s fair enough 🙂 Personally I never even noticed the age gap between 9 and Rose, they always seemed like they were equals to me. But then again my favorite DW romance is 12 and Clara, and my least favorite is the Doctor and River. To each their own 🤷🏻♀️ Its a weird one. The age gap between nine and rose never bothered me although it really wasn’t explicit. Whereas 11 and river never worked for me because of the age gap. But then i think clara and twelve does work in spite of the age gap. I thinks its situational depending on how a a character's written and acted
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Post by timegirl on May 21, 2021 22:05:59 GMT
That’s fair enough 🙂 Personally I never even noticed the age gap between 9 and Rose, they always seemed like they were equals to me. But then again my favorite DW romance is 12 and Clara, and my least favorite is the Doctor and River. To each their own 🤷🏻♀️ Its a weird one. The age gap between nine and rose never bothered me although it really wasn’t explicit. Whereas 11 and river never worked for me because of the age gap. But then i think clara and twelve does work in spite of the age gap. I thinks its situational depending on how a a character's written and acted I completely agree with you! It’s weird how 9 and Rose and 12 and Clara just kind of work, they just are equals so it works in spite of the age gap.
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Post by timegirl on May 21, 2021 22:41:22 GMT
I don't have anything against romance in principle, it just didn't really work for me with Rose specifically. With the 10th Doctor, it's because the romance consisted mostly of them acting very immature and goofy, which just wasn't a compelling tone from either performer. With the 9th Doctor, however, it just seemed odd because of the noticeable age gap--Christopher Eccleston is nearly 20 years older than Billie Piper. That's a big gap. Furthermore, while there's always an uncomfortable power dynamic at play on the TARDIS w/r/t romance, it's especially bad in the case of companions like Rose whose travels with the Doctor are largely motivated by quiet desperation. For romance to work, I think all involved parties need more equal standing. Romana and River Song, for example, both interact with the Doctor more as equals. Well -- it's complicated isn't it? lol. This sounds a lot like me not long ago. I hadn't noticed much the age gaps between performers, but between characters it's phenomenal. Even if I disagree in principle with someone complaining that one person in a relationship is two or three times the age of the other or the two are decades apart, you get to "My God, he's a hundred times her age!" and it tries to feel very natural and even proper to object. In reality, my father-in-law made it to 105 and that age you may just not have so many prospects of becoming involved with people your own age, You try to say, "My God, he's 40 years older than mom" and it really doesn't mean anything anymore. I am so very glad for timegirl's perspective on things, that vision of Twelve and Clara is heartwarming and about contagious and more power to it, because like it or not romance did become a part of the New Series and that is really all I know to do about it is either be morally indignant and constantly struggling to ignore it, or try to see the beauty of it. I think with the Ninth Doctor and Rose it was harder to accept because at the time everything was so new except the blue box that it was like one new thing too many? Eventually, it's really not so hard for me to reconcile with the Original Series. After the Time War, the Doctor feels alone and emotionally more vulnerable and more open, and if you're Gallifreyan and you get to be about 2000, maybe you do start to think a bit more about settling down. Maybe most of all is the thing about loss, you have all these people coming and going from your life but maybe you get to the point where just once you wish you could hang onto one of them. I had the thing going about about River Song and Romana - that is something I absolutely adored about Romana is that she was more of the Doctor's equal, and it's funny how that works out - I didn't look to Doctor Who for romance and yet mentally I was always trying to fix him up with a nice Gallifreyan girl his own age, lol. Romana as I now know though had her own destiny awaiting and I don't think the Doctor would have fit into it well. He might still be president of Gallifrey if he had. River is particularly odd, I was willing to accept her as the Doctor's equal and his rightful romance because she seemed like the closest thing but to be honest while she's got plenty of attitude, I'm not really sure she is the best match for the Doctor in attitude, and if I look at all the reasons romance eventually seems natural, that he needs more than ever to be together with someone or that he's tired of losing people or both, a wife who's almost exclusively in absentia doesn't necessarily feel all that right either. All that seems more natural to me because I think it plays forward well, too, all the way to the Thirteenth Doctor's "family", which really shouldn't be in quotation marks, more like she really thinks of them as the family she'd like to have. It may surprise me to think so after the way I've felt about the show ever since I got back into it, but I think timegirl's lovely visions of 12 and Clara aren't just hopeless romanticism, it really is the direction things were pointed in for a long time, and it is what seems natural the minute I'm not on about who's how much older than who. That's interesting, because it means acceptance of the show for whatever it is, which is really how my relationship with Doctor Who began - I didn't have so many "druthers" about what went on. "I liked this better than that" of course, but "They shouldn't have done that" wasn't really part of the deal. That's really a nice thought that I will be able to go back and rewatch all the 12th Doctor episodes and experience it like that rather than having to be offended every three minutes, but it's a very nice perspective on the Doctor being more human as well. It's also very nice getting to make my peace with Clara, she had such a long run that it started to seem like she's overstayed her welcome, but so much of that is really because of the pace the show had set up until then - it would have seemed that way with any companions really. I so much prefer trying to understand in what ways she might really be the Doctor's equal, because I really could accept that she is no matter what a tall order that must be. I feel so flattered! I am glad if I showed you the beauty of 12 and Clara’s relationship 😊
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Post by barnabaslives on May 21, 2021 23:01:24 GMT
Geez, Nick must really be a hard person to understand or something, he's like some kind of magnet for rumblings about vanity and egomania. I suppose you could speculate he's a rampant egomaniac because he has to make a cameo in virtually everything, but maybe saving on hiring performers to play menial roles by humbly playing a few them yourself is a better way to keep under budget than printing those lovely covers in one color of ink?
Same with his writing too I guess, if you wanted you could take everything to mean he's terribly vain about writing the big casting scores even though somehow he hasn't carved out the reputation that someone like John Dorney has. I'd probably start to find it tacky though if Dorney wrote the opener to every series. I really think many of Nick's stories make good openers because they're balanced rather than trying to sweep me off my feet with bombast on five different levels while I'm trying to get comfortable with the newness of something, if that makes any sense to anyone?
Just seems to me like a really nice and very talented guy with a massive love for Doctor Who, who's poured so much into it still being here in the here and now. I don't suppose anyone likes criticism that they really don't think is fair and I know I've seen reviews gloss over stories in a way which was not something they had to do, they could easily have been more objective. They sort of sounded more like minor lapses into entitled fandom to be honest, which is perfectly forgivable but that kind of thing does sort of have a way of inspiring objection. The thing was that I could easily have written them myself, but it was also perfectly possible to ask myself if I was being unfair or if I was overlooking or misunderstanding something.
Besides that I'm pretty sure the number of lukewarm reviews I've seen exceeds the number of Infamous Nick Incidents so I have to wonder what might have happened out of the ordinary that I am just not privy to, if Nick had words for someone. Also seems to me like some of the complaints about Nick (i.e., in the writing department) were they said about someone like Justin Richards would be well deserved compliments, which probably isn't fair either?
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Post by sherlock on May 22, 2021 12:41:05 GMT
So I finally finished this today.
I do think the Ninth Doctor is a bit too genuinely happy by the end here, to an extent we did not see on TV until “everybody lives” in The Doctor Dances. It jars a bit with where he is at the start of Series 1. But Eccleston really sells it, so I can’t deny it’s a joy to hear. I agree with the Radio Times review, it’s his performance first and foremost that makes this release enjoyable.
Nova is effectively Big Finish’s first attempt at a new RTD era companion, and feels a bit skin deep compared to the TV ones. On surface level, she ticks the boxes of the tropes of that era. But she feels far too self-assured with everything, and the deeper emotional stuff feels a bit thrown in to really hit home.
The plot moves at an incredible pace, which Eccleston’s enthusiasm works beautifully with, but does leave me ultimately wondering what this story was truly about. Just a lot of dashing around from one idea to another.
Its a confident and fun ride for sure. I kinda wish for something deeper and more meaningful, but as starting point for Nine at Big Finish this blockbuster will do nicely.
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Post by Timelord007 on May 24, 2021 7:47:58 GMT
Fantastic, absolutely fantastic, a joy from start to finish, Christopher Eccleston eases back into the role of the Ninth Doctor effortlessly & while the plots a bit timey wimey it's easy to follow & builds towards a great climax.
Bring on volume 2.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2021 9:08:52 GMT
Not sure whether this has already been commented upon:
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ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on May 24, 2021 11:44:51 GMT
Fantastic, absolutely fantastic, a joy from start to finish, Christopher Eccleston eases back into the role of the Ninth Doctor effortlessly & while the plots a bit timey wimey it's easy to follow & builds towards a great climax. Bring on volume 2. And a joy to read a short review that doesn't look to surgically pull-apart each element of Ravagers, and indeed Nick Briggs, and just enjoys it for what it is. Well done that man!
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Post by drj on May 25, 2021 10:51:09 GMT
I’ve just re-listened to this box set and I have to say it’s all a lot clearer to me now. I think on my first listen through, there were a couple of points where my mind wondered (crossing the road or something while listening maybe or thinking about something I had to get done) and I missed some of the crucial segues between scenes. This was compounded a bit by the flashbacks / non-linearity of the script. I was more than happy to roll with the overall story though and listen through. I am though very glad I gave it another listen because now I’m basically even more pleased with it than I was before! A good first box set and it really does feel like Chris has never been away, which is quite an achievement by all concerned.
Roll on box set two! And if we could have some more Nova please, that would be great!
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Post by mrperson on May 26, 2021 23:29:11 GMT
I do also need to relisten. I accidentally listened to a bunch of P3 rather than P2, and swapped around...plus I wasn't paying enough attention. I think I mainly missed some of the middle, but think I got the idea: trying to fix his own screw-up by popping around and cheating in time since...well....if it's all going to go poof anyway...
I usually am pretty good with these out-of-sync episodes. But I cannot be happier that Chris is back.
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