ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Apr 12, 2021 15:08:19 GMT
Great opening thread, and just goes to show that the passing of time changes many things.
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Post by Digi on Apr 12, 2021 16:41:27 GMT
I think Gary said he hadn’t listened to any since he left as then he couldn’t offer his opinion. I do feel Gary’s approach and Nicks are vastly different. Gary seems to want to push forward whereas Nick seems to always look back. In what way does Nick look back? To me, it seems like Briggs and David Richardson's top priority is making sure there's something for everyone, while maintaining a high standard for all their releases. I don't want to speak for captainpugwash in case I've misunderstood their intent, but to me it often feels a bit like... The Gary Russell era was 'we have these five things licensed, let's use them to tell all-new stories and invent whatever else we need as we go along;' as opposed to the Nick Briggs era of 'we have these fifty-eight licensed things in our ongoing stories already, what other things can we pull up and utilize as well?' To me personally, this isn't a criticism, it's kind of just an artifact of what was available for use in each exec. producer's era. If the license had been as expansive during Gary's stewardship of the company as it is now, it's difficult to imagine he'd have done anything differently.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Apr 12, 2021 17:17:41 GMT
I assume, also, that Gary Russell was something of a one-man executive-producing band, whereas people tend to forget the Nick Briggs is as much the face (voice?) of BF as executive producer; all the people hating him on Facebook are unaware of how much David Richardson is responsible for. So it's not just the decisions but the extent of their responsibility that need to be considered.
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Post by thelonecenturion on Apr 12, 2021 17:28:44 GMT
I assume, also, that Gary Russell was something of a one-man executive-producing band, whereas people tend to forget the Nick Briggs is as much the face (voice?) of BF as executive producer; all the people hating him on Facebook are unaware of how much David Richardson is responsible for. So it's not just the decisions but the extent of their responsibility that need to be considered. Yeah exactly. Also Jason apparently does more than everyone thinks and things like Torchwood and Gallifrey are pretty much entirely James Goss's and Scott Handcock's responsibilities respectively. This will only increase more from next year, with Jac Rayner taking over The Sixth Doctor Adventures and Emma Haigh running The Seventh Doctor Adventures, plus others to be announced running more series.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 17:31:42 GMT
I do think the Russell vs Briggs debate is also again about the time period. The reason the Russell era seems to look forward is because, in a way it was. From 2001 it was the current adventures of doctor who and you can really feel that in those Mcgann seasons. But not only that - it was the definitive continuation of the daleks with dalek empire, romana with gallifrey, the cybermen with, well, cybermen. They were also forging a new era for the sixth doctor with Evelynn and so it all makes the era and ranges from this period seem progressing as they were. When the tv show cameback - yes they still had sixie and they had really started some good stuff with mccoy and Mcgann was a gouple years away from a reboot - but it wasn’t the continuation any more and thus they were looking back in nature. Their continuation of the doctor, , cybermen, even sarah jane smith - that was the tv shows job and so big finish had to take a different route. I think ultimately thats probably the main thing people love about thoes early years. I personally think the quality is the same, theres just as much good now as there was bad back then and vice versa. But the idea that this WAS doctor who - the same way the VNA were doctor who - gives it a special feeling that impossible to recapture (well unless the show gets cancelled again 😅)
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Post by thelonecenturion on Apr 12, 2021 17:40:42 GMT
I do think the Russell vs Briggs debate is also again about the time period. The reason the Russell era seems to look forward is because, in a way it was. From 2001 it was the current adventures of doctor who and you can really feel that in those Mcgann seasons. But not only that - it was the definitive continuation of the daleks with dalek empire, romana with gallifrey, the cybermen with, well, cybermen. They were also forging a new era for the sixth doctor with Evelynn and so it all makes the era and ranges from this period seem progressing as they were. When the tv show cameback - yes they still had sixie and they had really started some good stuff with mccoy and Mcgann was a gouple years away from a reboot - but it wasn’t the continuation any more and thus they were looking back in nature. Their continuation of the doctor, , cybermen, even sarah jane smith - that was the tv shows job and so big finish had to take a different route. I think ultimately thats probably the main thing people love about thoes early years. I personally think the quality is the same, theres just as much good now as there was bad back then and vice versa. But the idea that this WAS doctor who - the same way the VNA were doctor who - gives it a special feeling that impossible to recapture (well unless the show gets cancelled again 😅) I agree, and while I'm aware this thread is getting more and more off-topic (perhaps we should make a new one?), I'll say one last thing - it looks as though the 2022 ranges are somewhat going to make the quality of all the stories even better (though I think the quality is for the most part very high already). With a distinct production team for each Doctor, it'll be far easier for the stories to be more coherent, and more like the early 'series'. We already know that Sixie's getting a proper story arc, and between Dalek Universe and the new Ninth Doctor sets, it looks like it'll basically be a continuous series per year for each Doctor. I know the ending of the MR was controversial, but I really do think it's going to make Big Finish even better than it already is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 18:21:39 GMT
Have BF done any other recasts with family members of the original actor? Gosh, I’m pleased with myself for this one: Charlie Hays played the part of Jenny in the audio version of Seven Keys To Doomsday, the role originally played by her mother Wendy Padbury. And of course they have got Peter Davison's son-in-law in playing the Doctor now.... Definitely one for the Pub Quiz compilers out there.
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Post by Digi on Apr 12, 2021 18:23:36 GMT
Gosh, I’m pleased with myself for this one: Charlie Hays played the part of Jenny in the audio version of Seven Keys To Doomsday, the role originally played by her mother Wendy Padbury. And of course they have got Peter Davison's son-in-law in playing the Doctor now.... Definitely one for the Pub Quiz compilers out there. Flippin' nepotism....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 18:31:39 GMT
And of course they have got Peter Davison's son-in-law in playing the Doctor now.... Definitely one for the Pub Quiz compilers out there. Flippin' nepotism.... I suspect most occasions Georgia Moffett is mentioned in conversation is closely followed by a "not a lot of people know that".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2021 21:29:34 GMT
I think Gary said he hadn’t listened to any since he left as then he couldn’t offer his opinion. I do feel Gary’s approach and Nicks are vastly different. Gary seems to want to push forward whereas Nick seems to always look back. Their approaches are different, but since Doctor Who returned to the TV in 2005 the BBC would have had more tighter control over what they view as acceptable Doctor Who stories. Gary Russell had a reasonably blank canvas and could push the envelope. Big Finish under Nick Briggs wouldn't have been allowed to release some of those early MR stories, as the scripts wouldn't have got past the BBC! So even though they are two different people with [possibly] two different views on what Doctor Who is and should be, Nick probably has tighter boundaries to work within, where Gary had more of a free hand creatively.
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 13, 2021 1:31:58 GMT
Very interesting I do wonder what would have happened in Gary Russel came back now and how things would change
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 2:03:48 GMT
I think Gary said he hadn’t listened to any since he left as then he couldn’t offer his opinion. I do feel Gary’s approach and Nicks are vastly different. Gary seems to want to push forward whereas Nick seems to always look back. Their approaches are different, but since Doctor Who returned to the TV in 2005 the BBC would have had more tighter control over what they view as acceptable Doctor Who stories. Gary Russell had a reasonably blank canvas and could push the envelope. Big Finish under Nick Briggs wouldn't have been allowed to release some of those early MR stories, as the scripts wouldn't have got past the BBC! So even though they are two different people with [possibly] two different views on what Doctor Who is and should be, Nick probably has tighter boundaries to work within, where Gary had more of a free hand creatively. Part and parcel of where the series itself was/is at the time, really. When they started, the incumbent Doctor was Paul McGann. Nowadays, we're a good... half-dozen incarnations in since then with a marked change in how the revival's been approached as a property. I think Briggs's time has taken full advantage of all the material that's been coming out of the revival, whereas Russell had to essentially build up an expanded universe to access from scratch. There were attempts to tap into pre-existing material at the beginning with the New Adventures 1 and DWM side-steps, but neither of them seemed to quite click with audiences of the time in the same way as classic Who's familiar faces. In this day and age, where we can pin down the formulae of big-impact writers in bullet points, it wouldn't be too difficult to do a pastiche of the worldbuilding behind those early releases. The early 2000s BF stories are essentially now a texture in and of themselves. Elements like the Temporal Powers, Evelyn, Erimem, Hex, Vansell, the Forge, the Dalek Empire, Anti-Time, very frank depictions of body/surgical horror, and so on. Come to think of it... Have Big Finish ever released a statement of what they can/can't do under the charter? My brain wants to say that rings a bell, but I can't think of any particular place I might find it. (Maybe the news archive of the website?) 1 - Side note: The fact that Benny didn't stick initially is a bit strange, considering that without her, there wouldn't have been the Doctor Who licence.
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 15, 2021 15:58:05 GMT
I've been reading through old versions of BF's FAQ on the Wayback Machine, as one does. I find it interesting to see a few things they categorically said they wouldn't do, when they later went on to do exactly that or something similar. I'd like to be clear that I'm not criticising BF for this or calling them hypocrites. I've listened to a lot of the below stories, and enjoyed them thoroughly. I'm sure there are plenty of things I said 20 years ago which I wouldn't agree with now! I just think it makes for amusing trivia, and I hope it will amuse some of you too. Adapting existing Doctor Who storiesFAQ: We are not allowed to adapt books, unmade scripts, stage plays, comic strips, ancient texts from lost Atlantis etc. And nor would we want to.Later releases: Novel Adptations, Lost Stories (and Night Thoughts before that), Stage Plays, Comic Strip Adaptations, they even did Stargate: Atlantis for a while Recasting/regenerating The Master or The RaniFAQ: Within the confines of the three Doctors we are currently covering, Anthony Ainley *is* the Master, and we would certainly like to come to an arrangement with him to return to the role sometime. If that cannot be achieved, I see no point in recasting the role. That would be an insult to Anthony and our listeners. If we want a regular villain and the current Master isn't available, I'd rather create a brand new and exciting baddie.Similarly, I'd love to use the Rani sometime and even if we negotiated with Pip and Jane Baker, who own the copyright on the character, if we could not employ Kate O'Mara, again, what's the point? Far better to create a new character. Yes, of course the Master and Rani *could* regenerate, but clever as that concept is, it can also be badly overused (vis a vis Borusa on television).Later releases (Master): Dark Eyes 2 and too many others to list with Alex MacQueen's incarnation, arguably the Time Lord Victorious Short Trips with Jon Culshaw Later releases (Rani): The Rani Elite, Planet of the RaniRecasting incarnations of the DoctorFAQ: I will not recast those three Doctors under any circumstances - to do so would I believe be the height of bad taste. On TV they got away with it in The Five Doctors, and that should remain a unique event. William Hartnell, Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee were three great actors whose memory is better served by enjoying what we have rather than muddying it with sound-alikes. And to ask their family members to impersonate them would be insulting them and their fathers. It's a definite no-no.Later releases: Too many to list across various Companion Chronicles, Early Adventures, and Short Trips. Here's something of a summary. First: David Bradley (and his whole TARDIS crew) in the First Doctor Adventures, William Russell, Peter Purves, arguably Elliot Chapman Second: I believe just Frazer Hines? Third: I think just Tim Treloar so far? ( Third Doctor Adventures, various multi-doctor stories) Possibly Jon Culshaw soon (see below) While the above quote is specifically about the first 3 incarnations, I'll include some others here which I think are relevant. Ten, Eleven, and Twelve: Jacob Dudman ( The Doctor Chronicles, Short Trips) War: Jonathon Carley ( The War Doctor Begins) Jon Culshaw, a category unto himselfThe Master: see above Third Doctor (maybe): I'd expect that he'll be reading the Doctor's dialogue in Scourge of the Cybermen in an impression of Pertwee, but I don't think there's anything in the trailer to confirm or deny this. Fourth Doctor: I think just once? I won't say where because his appearance as such is not in the cast list, so would presumably be considered a spoiler. The Brigadier: The Grey Man of the Mountain, Third Doctor Adventures, and one other time where he's not in the cast list. Has he done any other Who-niverse characters for BF? Also relevant to the part about family members is that Lis Sladen's daughter Sadie Miller is now playing Sarah Jane Smith ( Return of the Cybermen, Third Doctor Adventures). Have BF done any other recasts with family members of the original actor? The Time War?: I can't find a link now, but I vaguely recall them saying they didn't want to cover the Time War. I might be getting mixed up with various times it's been said that the TV show would never depict the Time War in detail, or perhaps where BF previously said they couldn't cover it back when their licence didn't include "new" Who. Those are the ones I've found. My knowledge of DW and BF is not encyclopædic; corrections and additions are welcome Quite Fascinating
Adapting existing Doctor Who stories- Well technically around 2005 they adapted Night Thoughts which was a lost story into The Main Range. Also considering that They were going to have Sam Jones as 8's Companion in The Main Range makes me think that they were going to reference The 8 Doctors and some of the BBC Book events
The Time War?
Yep i remember Briggs mentioning it back in 2015 with The 8th Doctor Time War that they didn't want to do any time war stuff as they wanted to Preserve the mystery but then Moffatt happened and with Day and Night of The Doctor, it inspired Big Finish to tell stories from those events.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Apr 16, 2021 8:51:20 GMT
One non-content thing they said they would never do was another 10% reduction across the board (including pre-orders and subs) sale which they first did in 2013. There was a bit of a backlash as people who had pre-ordered at full pre-order price felt a bit cheated and they promised never to do it again.
Then they did it again in 2017, although I don't recall many objections at the time - on this forum at least
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Apr 16, 2021 8:57:29 GMT
As well as the things BF themselves said they'd never do, there are the things we fans assumed they would never do for one reason or another - Adaptation of Damaged Goods - Full cast Four and Romana II stories - Regenerate the 6th Dr
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2021 14:49:09 GMT
One non-content thing they said they would never do was another 10% reduction across the board (including pre-orders and subs) sale which they first did in 2013. There was a bit of a backlash as people who had pre-ordered at full pre-order price felt a bit cheated and they promised never to do it again. Maybe like Sean Connery they'll never say never again?
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Apr 16, 2021 15:26:51 GMT
Dorian Grey was going to be DL-only and never released on CD.
Then it was
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2021 16:43:14 GMT
Hmm lets see now - 'Things Big Finish were never going to do...until they did' Sooner or later Doctor Jekyll and Mr Hyde is going to find its way onto this thread. One day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 20:19:35 GMT
Hmm lets see now - 'Things Big Finish were never going to do...until they did' Sooner or later Doctor Jekyll and Mr Hyde is going to find its way onto this thread. One day. Maybe there should be a new thread - 'Things Big Finish were going to do ... then didn't!'
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 20:29:16 GMT
Hmm lets see now - 'Things Big Finish were never going to do...until they did' Sooner or later Doctor Jekyll and Mr Hyde is going to find its way onto this thread. One day. Maybe there should be a new thread - 'Things Big Finish were going to do ... then didn't!' We could all open a Book at Ladbrokes for the speculated release date. Year. not Month
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