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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2021 1:34:46 GMT
To avoid having to navigate round two screens: "Immersive Everywhere have taken the decision to remove this pre record from Doctor Who: Time Fracture. We will continue to include content that pays tribute to this brilliant show that is Torchwood so as not to disappoint its fans, and are working on an exciting storyline to be announced soon."
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Post by theillusiveman on May 12, 2021 6:50:55 GMT
To avoid having to navigate round two screens: "Immersive Everywhere have taken the decision to remove this pre record from Doctor Who: Time Fracture. We will continue to include content that pays tribute to this brilliant show that is Torchwood so as not to disappoint its fans, and are working on an exciting storyline to be announced soon." Wonder how much money they lost having to reshoot and rewrite Besides if they are going to include Torchwood content then they could only use Andy or Ryhs
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Post by shallacatop on May 12, 2021 7:16:43 GMT
At the end of the day, it's well within the employer's rights to decide if they want to employ Barrowman or not based on his past activities and the controversy surrounding him. In this case, they presumably recorded the footage with Barrowman unaware of what he's known to have done in the past and have now decided not to pursue it. I don't think Immersive Everywhere will have been able to pull it themselves and this will have had to go via the BBC, as it alters the story (probably only very minor), if nothing else.
I don't think Barrowman will be "cancelled", but I do think he will become less prominent. It doesn't need legal action for his own actions to be distasteful to people and if potential employer thinks there'll be negative consequences as a result of his hiring, then they'll naturally not go down that path. He hasn't helped himself by not issuing an apology and all the statements to have come from others in the past week are notably distancing themselves; Gareth David Lloyd's was particularly odd.
It'll be interesting to see how Absent Friends is handled this month, along with the upcoming issues of Titan's Doctor Who Comic. As for Doctor Who on screen, I don't think we'll ever really know either way given how secretive they keep the set under Chibnall, certainly not in the immediate future anyway.
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Post by cwm on May 12, 2021 7:26:20 GMT
Hard not to think this creates some level of pressure for BF to do something about Absent Friends.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 12, 2021 7:40:30 GMT
Regardless of people's opinions of what Barrowman did I think removing him from Time Fracture was inevitable. He is too controversial at the moment, Doctor Who is a family show & given the nature of his actions to keep him in it would be too distracting, if only this attitude towards him had been taken years ago - the belief that people didn't know is baffling to me given the way it's been talked about at convention over the years & his much publicised appearance on radio. I doubt if it will impact on the upcoming BF release, although maybe a delay to release may happen, but I think there will be a serious rethink about how prominent Captain Jack will be in future releases.
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Post by sherlock on May 12, 2021 8:02:43 GMT
It’s weird to see this being put down to a twitter mob or cancel culture, as I don’t recall seeing anyone actually ask Immersive to do this. Sure the Guardian allegations were shared around twitter aplenty, but I didn’t see anything directed towards Immersive themselves. So it’s a decision pretty much entirely of their own volition.
I guess it does put more onus on Big Finish regarding Absent Friends. If one licencee is distancing itself from Barrowman, it’s odd for another to embrace him. But then they can’t entirely scrap an audio they’ve already produced, as that’s just money down the plug hole. Bit of a fix.
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Post by cwm on May 12, 2021 9:32:20 GMT
Yeah and given it's such a high-profile release I think that puts BF in even more of a spot. I guess they could just release it with no promotion or announcement whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2021 10:17:10 GMT
It’s weird to see this being put down to a twitter mob or cancel culture, as I don’t recall seeing anyone actually ask Immersive to do this. Sure the Guardian allegations were shared around twitter aplenty, but I didn’t see anything directed towards Immersive themselves. So it’s a decision pretty much entirely of their own volition. I guess it does put more onus on Big Finish regarding Absent Friends. If one licencee is distancing itself from Barrowman, it’s odd for another to embrace him. But then they can’t entirely scrap an audio they’ve already produced, as that’s just money down the plug hole. Bit of a fix. Yeah, I think people are too quick to cite "cancel culture". It's become the new "Political corectness gone mad" for overused cliches. Every case is different and thus every reaction will be. I don't think this will, or should, kill Barrowman's career for good. I think companies promoting themselves to families will want to have a bit of distance while the heat and spotlight are on Barrowman for the sake of their larger appeal and work in the short term. He will bounce back - we as people and companies are able to, surely, realise that not all actions are equal, nor as insidious. The stories were known all the way back in the day, as they were happening. Different times? Yeah..but I remember even then saying it was a shitty way to act at work, for a rise out of people or not. His intent clearly wasn't as nefarious as Noel Clarke's and I think in time that'll be shown by Noel being *ahem* cancelled and John getting more of a time-out penalty. Then again there are lots of stories known among fandom from before the series came back that would be quite shocking if they came out now, or were known by fans who weren't con-attendees in the 90s. One infamous one was published with Richard Marson's JNT bio when his and Gary Downie's open fondness for *very* young male fans to come home with them in exchange for set visits and the like was put down on paper after being an open secret for years. There's an actor in the classic series who had very similar tastes to that and was known to have teen boys to his room at conventions and be quite open about trying to pick them up. I've seen him in action at the bar at conventions first hand and yeah...not nice. We can't allow every "wrong" to be lumped together. TO be cliched, the punishment should fit the crime. Barrowman did nothing as horrible as this kinda stuff. He shouldn't be treated like those that did.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2021 11:01:23 GMT
I imagine they probably thought they would loose more money by having him there than not so whatever. Killed any interest i had which is sad as i like to support more who things like this but i just wouldn’t be able to enjoy it knowing what it could have been. Hopely Tracey Ann Oberman “cancelable” comments don’t gain traction before her release next month or it will be the same crap all over again
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Post by shallacatop on May 12, 2021 11:33:59 GMT
It’s weird to see this being put down to a twitter mob or cancel culture, as I don’t recall seeing anyone actually ask Immersive to do this. Sure the Guardian allegations were shared around twitter aplenty, but I didn’t see anything directed towards Immersive themselves. So it’s a decision pretty much entirely of their own volition. I guess it does put more onus on Big Finish regarding Absent Friends. If one licencee is distancing itself from Barrowman, it’s odd for another to embrace him. But then they can’t entirely scrap an audio they’ve already produced, as that’s just money down the plug hole. Bit of a fix. Yeah, I think people are too quick to cite "cancel culture". It's become the new "Political corectness gone mad" for overused cliches. Every case is different and thus every reaction will be. I don't think this will, or should, kill Barrowman's career for good. I think companies promoting themselves to families will want to have a bit of distance while the heat and spotlight are on Barrowman for the sake of their larger appeal and work in the short term. He will bounce back - we as people and companies are able to, surely, realise that not all actions are equal, nor as insidious. The stories were known all the way back in the day, as they were happening. Different times? Yeah..but I remember even then saying it was a shitty way to act at work, for a rise out of people or not. His intent clearly wasn't as nefarious as Noel Clarke's and I think in time that'll be shown by Noel being *ahem* cancelled and John getting more of a time-out penalty. Then again there are lots of stories known among fandom from before the series came back that would be quite shocking if they came out now, or were known by fans who weren't con-attendees in the 90s. One infamous one was published with Richard Marson's JNT bio when his and Gary Downie's open fondness for *very* young male fans to come home with them in exchange for set visits and the like was put down on paper after being an open secret for years. There's an actor in the classic series who had very similar tastes to that and was known to have teen boys to his room at conventions and be quite open about trying to pick them up. I've seen him in action at the bar at conventions first hand and yeah...not nice. We can't allow every "wrong" to be lumped together. TO be cliched, the punishment should fit the crime. Barrowman did nothing as horrible as this kinda stuff. He shouldn't be treated like those that did. I agree. Every case is different and every reaction will be. No charges are being pressed against Barrowman and nobody has spoken out against him to say they were uncomfortable, to the best of my knowledge. It doesn't make what he did acceptable, but there's heat on him currently and employers will want to have some distance. Whether that distance continues or not is another thing. Personally, I don't think he will be "cancelled" (whatever that means!), but I think he will be less prominent, certainly in the next few months. What happens after that will be dependent on what prospective employers think. If they think the backlash (if there is any; as sherlock said, I don't think there was any sent to Immersive) outweighs the benefits, they won't hire him. That isn't exclusive to Barrowman, of course, or even to those sort of antics. As I said in my original post, I think what will be interesting is how the other Doctor Who related things involving him will pan out. I don't think Immersive will have simply removed the Captain Jack pre-record. I suspect this will have to have been vetted via the BBC. They may have just approved that as a one-off, with no view to doing anything about, say, Absent Friends or the graphic novel. You're right about other stories. The actor from the classic series you mention is someone I've had an encounter with previously. Nothing nefarious, but the conversation was odd and uncomfortable. I didn't know anything about the stories at the time, but I was informed shortly after and have purposely not interacted with him on the couple of events I've attended where he's been a guest since. As you say, not nice.
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Post by thelonecenturion on May 12, 2021 11:38:58 GMT
Yeah, I think people are too quick to cite "cancel culture". It's become the new "Political corectness gone mad" for overused cliches. Every case is different and thus every reaction will be. I don't think this will, or should, kill Barrowman's career for good. I think companies promoting themselves to families will want to have a bit of distance while the heat and spotlight are on Barrowman for the sake of their larger appeal and work in the short term. He will bounce back - we as people and companies are able to, surely, realise that not all actions are equal, nor as insidious. The stories were known all the way back in the day, as they were happening. Different times? Yeah..but I remember even then saying it was a shitty way to act at work, for a rise out of people or not. His intent clearly wasn't as nefarious as Noel Clarke's and I think in time that'll be shown by Noel being *ahem* cancelled and John getting more of a time-out penalty. Then again there are lots of stories known among fandom from before the series came back that would be quite shocking if they came out now, or were known by fans who weren't con-attendees in the 90s. One infamous one was published with Richard Marson's JNT bio when his and Gary Downie's open fondness for *very* young male fans to come home with them in exchange for set visits and the like was put down on paper after being an open secret for years. There's an actor in the classic series who had very similar tastes to that and was known to have teen boys to his room at conventions and be quite open about trying to pick them up. I've seen him in action at the bar at conventions first hand and yeah...not nice. We can't allow every "wrong" to be lumped together. TO be cliched, the punishment should fit the crime. Barrowman did nothing as horrible as this kinda stuff. He shouldn't be treated like those that did. I agree. Every case is different and every reaction will be. No charges are being pressed against Barrowman and nobody has spoken out against him to say they were uncomfortable, to the best of my knowledge. It doesn't make what he did acceptable, but there's heat on him currently and employers will want to have some distance. Whether that distance continues or not is another thing. Personally, I don't think he will be "cancelled" (whatever that means!), but I think he will be less prominent, certainly in the next few months. What happens after that will be dependent on what prospective employers think. If they think the backlash (if there is any; as sherlock said, I don't think there was any sent to Immersive) outweighs the benefits, they won't hire him. That isn't exclusive to Barrowman, of course, or even to those sort of antics. As I said in my original post, I think what will be interesting is how the other Doctor Who related things involving him will pan out. I don't think Immersive will have simply removed the Captain Jack pre-record. I suspect this will have to have been vetted via the BBC. They may have just approved that as a one-off, with no view to doing anything about, say, Absent Friends or the graphic novel. You're right about other stories. The actor from the classic series you mention is someone I've had an encounter with previously. Nothing nefarious, but the conversation was odd and uncomfortable. I didn't know anything about the stories at the time, but I was informed shortly after and have purposely not interacted with him on the couple of events I've attended where he's been a guest since. As you say, not nice. At least one person has said that they were uncomfortable - but they were only an onlooker. No one that's been involved in Barrowman's shenanigans has said they felt uncomfortable.
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Post by stcoop on May 12, 2021 12:52:07 GMT
No one held a gun to his head and forced him to act like a three year old, not just once but multiple times.
If he was straight he'd have been fired the first time it happened, even back in 2005.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2021 14:37:07 GMT
Well, in other news, TV's John Barrowman has announced that he will be appearing in Pantomime in both Grimsby & Hull later this year, after a few projects fell through. Speaking about the move up north, he said that "it would be good so's he can get t' Whippet out a bit more often, aye like."
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Post by dasmaniac on May 12, 2021 16:37:52 GMT
The fact that Chibnall has said nothing is weird.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 12, 2021 17:13:13 GMT
The fact that Chibnall has said nothing is weird. Was anything confirmed about Captain Jack appearing in S13? There were rumours based on a comic book tie-in but that is all I have heard.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 12, 2021 17:16:10 GMT
I agree. Every case is different and every reaction will be. No charges are being pressed against Barrowman and nobody has spoken out against him to say they were uncomfortable, to the best of my knowledge. It doesn't make what he did acceptable, but there's heat on him currently and employers will want to have some distance. Whether that distance continues or not is another thing. Personally, I don't think he will be "cancelled" (whatever that means!), but I think he will be less prominent, certainly in the next few months. What happens after that will be dependent on what prospective employers think. If they think the backlash (if there is any; as sherlock said, I don't think there was any sent to Immersive) outweighs the benefits, they won't hire him. That isn't exclusive to Barrowman, of course, or even to those sort of antics. As I said in my original post, I think what will be interesting is how the other Doctor Who related things involving him will pan out. I don't think Immersive will have simply removed the Captain Jack pre-record. I suspect this will have to have been vetted via the BBC. They may have just approved that as a one-off, with no view to doing anything about, say, Absent Friends or the graphic novel. You're right about other stories. The actor from the classic series you mention is someone I've had an encounter with previously. Nothing nefarious, but the conversation was odd and uncomfortable. I didn't know anything about the stories at the time, but I was informed shortly after and have purposely not interacted with him on the couple of events I've attended where he's been a guest since. As you say, not nice. At least one person has said that they were uncomfortable - but they were only an onlooker. No one that's been involved in Barrowman's shenanigans has said they felt uncomfortable. But also as far as I'm aware we haven't heard Camille Coduri, Eve Myles or Freema Agyeman publicly defend him recently.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 12, 2021 21:39:57 GMT
It comes back to what I have said myself, in different words. It is in the past now and everyone has 'moved on'. As others said here earlier in the day, he remains a decent bloke in most peoples eyes, and seemed happy to make the fool of himself, not others. It may not have been acceptable, but he does not seem to have sought to humiliate others, but did however embarrass them severely, intentional or not. No excuses made for him, but at least he takes the rap for what we know of. And as said by the previous poster, he has apparently took the advice a long while back. Everyone's moved on? Its in the past? So I guess Noel Clarke will be back when enough time has elapsed? Maybe everyone hasn't moved on? There might have been others present who are now triggered again by all this resurfacing, or those that have laughed it off as a coping mechanism (which a lot of women do) reliving it. As for him not seeking to humiliate others, not sure how any of us can determine his intent with sexually harassing co-workers tbh but I know it is not acceptable in the workplace. If it were any other workplace he would have been sacked, & that is how I look at it, imagine this happening at our own offices, factories etc? What would happen? But as I said it us probably up to individuals as to how they react in terms of supporting him by buying his work done for BF. Its that rather tricky & ultimately personal issue of separating the art from the artist. Are you equating Clarke with Barrowman?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 12, 2021 21:49:54 GMT
*raises hand* Ummm what’s John done/alleged to have done? Repeatedly sexually harassing fellow cast members on Doctor Who & Torchwood. This is something which has been well known, reported about in a jokey way by the media & also discussed as just a part of loveable John's personality at conventions where people listening to the stories being retold find it amusing for some weird reason. You talk about the office and what is and what is not acceptable. And all I would say is the office is not a film or TV set or backstage in a theater. I’ve known dozens of Barrowmans over the decades. I don’t know. Clarke or Harvey Weinstein sound like predators. Barrowman sounds like a naughty boy that one either laughs with or one tells to cut it out. I would be cautious in trying to paint Clarke and Barrowman with the same brush.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 12, 2021 21:55:13 GMT
Everyone's moved on? Its in the past? So I guess Noel Clarke will be back when enough time has elapsed? Maybe everyone hasn't moved on? There might have been others present who are now triggered again by all this resurfacing, or those that have laughed it off as a coping mechanism (which a lot of women do) reliving it. As for him not seeking to humiliate others, not sure how any of us can determine his intent with sexually harassing co-workers tbh but I know it is not acceptable in the workplace. If it were any other workplace he would have been sacked, & that is how I look at it, imagine this happening at our own offices, factories etc? What would happen? But as I said it us probably up to individuals as to how they react in terms of supporting him by buying his work done for BF. Its that rather tricky & ultimately personal issue of separating the art from the artist. Are you equating Clarke with Barrowman? Nope.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on May 12, 2021 21:55:37 GMT
Are you equating Clarke with Barrowman? Nope. Good. Thank you.
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