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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 13:58:03 GMT
A little spot the difference in terms of cover credits, relevant to the present discussion. Can anyone guess what's missing on the second volume?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 14:02:37 GMT
A little spot the difference in terms of cover credits, relevant to the present discussion. Can anyone guess what's missing on the second volume? I just hope it is also missing from future volumes!
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Post by thelonecenturion on Aug 13, 2021 14:03:21 GMT
A little spot the difference in terms of cover credits, relevant to the present discussion. Can anyone guess what's missing on the second volume? Writing credits have rarely been on releases featuring multiple writers. See Torchwood: Believe vs Torchwood: Outbreak. I don't think Briggs writing the first set is an ego thing. It's clear he was the one who decided with Chris's agent where the series would go, so it only makes sense that he provide the 'pilot'.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 14:22:37 GMT
Writing credits have rarely been on releases featuring multiple writers. See Torchwood: Believe vs Torchwood: Outbreak. I don't think Briggs writing the first set is an ego thing. It's clear he was the one who decided with Chris's agent where the series would go, so it only makes sense that he provide the 'pilot'. And to be fair all round, Chris has singled out Nick's scripts for praise.
Having just listened to Planet of the End, I can safely say that Respond to all Calls succeeds (for me) in all kinds of ways that its predecessor didn't. Many congrats and thanks to everyone involved in this wonderful boxset - the cast and sound designers of course, and Helen Goldwyn for some excellent direction.
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Post by shallacatop on Aug 13, 2021 14:25:11 GMT
Loved this set. A real step up to Ravagers and it’s the perfect introduction to the Ninth Doctor on audio. Three varied stories that are consistently good and stand proud on their own rights, Eccleston is on fine form, the stories are written appropriately for his Doctor and these feel like they take advantage of the pre-Rose era. I particularly enjoyed how Planet of the End finished, with the Doctor actively hunting for some fun. At that moment it sort of clicked with me about having pre-Rose stories in a way I’ve not always been keen on. I don’t want to beat up Ravagers too much, but this set has shown it up in every single way.
I’d also go as far to say that Respond to All Calls has got one of the most memorable guest casts from a Big Finish set ever. They’re all unique, well served and well performed.
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Post by coffeeaddict on Aug 13, 2021 14:30:14 GMT
A billion times better than the first set. Honestly BF should take this as a sign that Briggs should be given a long break from writing and others be given that honour.
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Post by IndieMacUser on Aug 13, 2021 20:55:37 GMT
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Aug 13, 2021 22:00:10 GMT
As someone who was unable to finish volume 1, Girl, Deconstructed by Lisa McMullin in a major set up. Engaging, fun and just an all around good yarn. One episode in and this the 9th Doctor set I was hoping for the first time around.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Aug 13, 2021 22:02:23 GMT
A billion times better than the first set. Honestly BF should take this as a sign that Briggs should be given a long break from writing and others be given that honour. Yes, let him stick to his little pet projects keep him away from Who.
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Post by thelonecenturion on Aug 14, 2021 10:39:01 GMT
I'm starting to see why Briggs can be so sensitive to criticism now. It's one thing to applaud Volume 2, but why are so many people commenting on how Nick shouldn't have written the first volume?
It's possible to say Respond to All Calls was great without having to say "after the rubbish that was Ravagers" or something to that effect first.
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Post by project37 on Aug 14, 2021 12:42:53 GMT
I'm starting to see why Briggs can be so sensitive to criticism now. It's one thing to applaud Volume 2, but why are so many people commenting on how Nick shouldn't have written the first volume? It's possible to say Respond to All Calls was great without having to say "after the rubbish that was Ravagers" or something to that effect first. I can only speak for myself. The return of Christopher Eccleston to Doctor Who was something I thought would be impossible, so my anticipation was through the roof. While I applauded the ambition to try something different (and recognize that the first 22 pages of the script convinced Eccleston to take the gig), the actual execution fell short for me and the enjoyment I got out of it was solely from the lead actor elevating the material with an astonishing performance. If that boxset and its storyline/concept was released in 2021 with any of the classic Doctors as the lead, I find it hard to believe that it would be a runaway success.
I wouldn't call it rubbish, but found it to be underwhelming and it lowered the bar for my expectations.
Respond To All Calls had a gentle (and lovely) linking theme, but offered a range of settings that echoed the television series (one story in the present day, one in the past, and one on another world), and scripts that seemed to be better tailored to the Ninth Doctor. They were familar yet fresh, accessible yet still a bit challenging (I personally got a little tangled up some of the concepts in the second and third stories) and left me wanting more instead of shrugging my shoulders. I don't think that these were necessarily all-time classics, but found them to be significantly more coherent and enjoyable than what preceded it.
I don't think I'm the only one that feels that way, so perhaps the commentary on Ravagers are just people processing the experience and enjoying the fact that this new set is more in line with what they'd hoped for.
And again, don't get me wrong - I genuinely appreciate and support the ambition of Ravagers to push the envelope and kick things off on a bigger scale with an extended story (almost like a miniseries or movie). I know a lot of hard work went into it and only wish it clicked better for me.
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Post by shallacatop on Aug 14, 2021 13:26:22 GMT
I think you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think people will compare stories within the same series. Of course everyone has favourites or preferences and if you were particularly disappointed with what came before, then you’re going to be chuffed with something that’s more to your tastes and comment on that.
Fundamentally, it’s feedback from customers. Saying something is “rubbish” isn’t the most constructive or useful, but there’s far more posts that are detailed, both criticism and general thoughts, from people who have taken the time out to listen, digest and comment.
And it’s not as if Ravagers was deemed a complete write off. Nobody said Eccleston wasn’t enthusiastic or didn’t put in a good turn, they felt the material and story he was given was lacking. Respond to All Calls has come along and addressed those previous criticisms. It’s iterative.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 13:26:41 GMT
I'm starting to see why Briggs can be so sensitive to criticism now. It's one thing to applaud Volume 2, but why are so many people commenting on how Nick shouldn't have written the first volume? It's possible to say Respond to All Calls was great without having to say "after the rubbish that was Ravagers" or something to that effect first. It is possible but there wouldn’t be these comments if he had write something good But seriously i think the animosity towards ravagers is just a mixture of Ecclestone being back and so anticipations were high, as well as trying to highlight how much they enjoy this one and would like to see more of things like volume 2 in comparison to volume 1, which i think is fair when reviewing a set as this series is still in production - for the next batch theres a real possibility there could be another briggs penned set and so people are voicing their opinion that its something they don’t want. Is it, to quote Briggs, “a bit mean”? Yeah. But i also think, in this instance at least its a worthy point to point out. Maybe if people are still saying this when volume 5 comes out then the bashing will be ott
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 13:44:35 GMT
I'm starting to see why Briggs can be so sensitive to criticism now. It's one thing to applaud Volume 2, but why are so many people commenting on how Nick shouldn't have written the first volume? It's possible to say Respond to All Calls was great without having to say "after the rubbish that was Ravagers" or something to that effect first. I understand what you mean, and I know that I have compared Respond to all Calls very favourably with the first set, which I found extremely poor. One of BF's least enjoyable releases, as far as I'm concerned. I would have had that opinion no matter who would have written it, but it happens to be Nick Briggs. Of all the original Doctors at BF, only Paul McGann's incarnation* has not had his - always highly anticipated - debut story written by Nick (he had to wait until his second outing for a Briggs-penned tale). With the exception of the War Doctor, whose first box-set remains my favourite of the lot, I've found these stories distinctly underwhelming. It's difficult to be honest about that without sounding like a Briggs-basher, or 'a bit mean'.
To 'justify' that point of view, I should balance it by saying I love a lot of what Nick has done. His version of The Prisoner is exceptional, his playing of Sherlock Holmes is up there with the best of portrayals of the sleuth. He ensures that his Daleks always sound sufficiently mean and raspy and pays fine homage to other Dalek voices as well as bringing his own qualities to them. He's written some cracking tales. I even championed his short-lived version of the Doctor Who theme tune because ... well, I love it. He's charmed more reticent Who actors back into the fold, for which there are no sufficient thanks, and he provides many interesting behind-the-scenes anecdotes and stories to the CD Extras.
But it remains a fact, at least to me, that some of his stories - often the 'bigger' stories he gets to write - are distinctly underwhelming and over-reliant on techno-babble. Ravagers is guilty of that. So, when praising how good Respond to all Calls is, it also comes as a huge relief that it isn't in the same vein as its predecessor, which is why I mentioned it.
Sorry for the ramble!
*edited to add - David Tennant's debut was also not written by Nick, gut by Matt Fitton. So there, davros1!
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ljwilson
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Post by ljwilson on Aug 14, 2021 14:50:21 GMT
All of the above, and beyond, has been a good read and debate.
I was one of the few that didn't pre-order Ravagers because I suspected it would be a bit under whelming, a bit of a repeat of the 10th Doctor's first box set...which was OK without being spectacular.
So, when I get round to it I'll probably start with Respond to all Calls, and pick up Ravagers when it goes on sale circa 2025.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 18:05:05 GMT
I'm starting to see why Briggs can be so sensitive to criticism now. It's one thing to applaud Volume 2, but why are so many people commenting on how Nick shouldn't have written the first volume? It's possible to say Respond to All Calls was great without having to say "after the rubbish that was Ravagers" or something to that effect first. When the files are labelled Episodes 1.4, 1.5 and 1.6....it's rather obvious people are going to compare them just as they compare eps on a TV season. You can't remove that baggage - when Suicide Squad hit last week try and find a review that didn't talk about the contrast with the first. It's only natural to look at the context of what else has come for the same character/franchise. We've only got Vol. 1 to compare with. When the 9DAs being sold, literally, as a bundle - asking people to think of it in a vacuum is a bit much. I mean by that logic we shouldn't compare the 3 stories in the set either. There's always going to be a bar, there's going to be precedent. Context is king. Especially given much of the criticism isn't "Nick's one was crap" but rather "This would have been a better reintroduction for the character". And if Nick's sensitive to criticism, not our issue. We pay for these. We're gonna have opinions on them. He's thrown enough stones himself over the years.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 18:15:53 GMT
Just to say to any who skim over the Extras - they provide almost as much of a warm, positive feeling as the three stories. As you might imagine, the most pertinent words come from Chris himself, who is so positive, it's impossible not to grin - he's having a ball, and it is commented that you can hear the enjoyment in his performance. Great to hear. Really great to hear!
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Post by grinch on Aug 14, 2021 18:30:05 GMT
Just to say to any who skim over the Extras - they provide almost as much of a warm, positive feeling as the three stories. As you might imagine, the most pertinent words come from Chris himself, who is so positive, it's impossible not to grin - he's having a ball, and it is commented that you can hear the enjoyment in his performance. Great to hear. Really great to hear! You just know it’s only a matter of time before Big Finish or Nicholas Briggs presents him with a script for a Multi Doctor story.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2021 18:54:31 GMT
Just to say to any who skim over the Extras - they provide almost as much of a warm, positive feeling as the three stories. As you might imagine, the most pertinent words come from Chris himself, who is so positive, it's impossible not to grin - he's having a ball, and it is commented that you can hear the enjoyment in his performance. Great to hear. Really great to hear! You just know it’s only a matter of time before Big Finish or Nicholas Briggs presents him with a script for a Multi Doctor story. It's a possibility - you never know. It would be quite amazing to hear Chris alongside Sylvester or Tom, or the other Doctors; but one of many things I really loved about Respond to all Calls is the lack of continuity, the feeling of newness that surrounds the stories. It's an echo of his TV adventures really. We saw the Daleks, we even saw a Cyber head, but everything else was fresh, and that freshness has become part of The Ninth Doctor's appeal. We shall see, my friend!
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Post by project37 on Aug 14, 2021 19:01:41 GMT
That said, I did like the Ninth Doctor's explanation for one of his past adventures and the destruction of...
{Planet of the End spoiler} ...Exxilon because it "was a naughty city!"
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