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Post by Chakoteya on Aug 15, 2021 16:35:24 GMT
6 down, 6 to go.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Aug 15, 2021 18:11:45 GMT
I'm starting to see why Briggs can be so sensitive to criticism now. It's one thing to applaud Volume 2, but why are so many people commenting on how Nick shouldn't have written the first volume? It's possible to say Respond to All Calls was great without having to say "after the rubbish that was Ravagers" or something to that effect first. Nick has always been more than a little thin-skinned. Yes, it is possible to say one was great without saying the other one was rubbish unless one feels the other one was rubbish. We purchase these audios, we are allowed to express our opinions. I’m far from being a regular Nick detractor but I was unable to finish Ravagers, and it was only on the recommendation of someone I trust telling me how good Respond to All Call that I gave it a listen as quickly as I did. This should have lead the range off because it was everything I was looking for out of the range. Anyway.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Aug 15, 2021 20:17:40 GMT
I'm starting to see why Briggs can be so sensitive to criticism now. It's one thing to applaud Volume 2, but why are so many people commenting on how Nick shouldn't have written the first volume? It's possible to say Respond to All Calls was great without having to say "after the rubbish that was Ravagers" or something to that effect first. I think so many people are commenting on that because that's how they feel, & this is a forum where we can say how we feel about the things we buy. Yes it is possible to praise Respond to All Calls without commenting on the previous release but we can make the comparison given how long fans have waited for this & also how consensus seems to be that this release is far better & should have been the first release. Is Briggs oversensitive to criticism? If so unfortunately that's on him, all writers have to just accept that not everyone is going to love what they do.
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Post by mark687 on Aug 15, 2021 21:04:01 GMT
That we know of for certain Regards mark687
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Post by Kestrel on Aug 16, 2021 3:06:57 GMT
I'm starting to see why Briggs can be so sensitive to criticism now. It's one thing to applaud Volume 2, but why are so many people commenting on how Nick shouldn't have written the first volume? It's possible to say Respond to All Calls was great without having to say "after the rubbish that was Ravagers" or something to that effect first. I think so many people are commenting on that because that's how they feel, & this is a forum where we can say how we feel about the things we buy. Yes it is possible to praise Respond to All Calls without commenting on the previous release but we can make the comparison given how long fans have waited for this & also how consensus seems to be that this release is far better & should have been the first release. Is Briggs oversensitive to criticism? If so unfortunately that's on him, all writers have to just accept that not everyone is going to love what they do. I also think many people consider three independent, episodic stories to be a better starting point than a single arc. And there is some sense to that: there are three times as many opportunities to like or dislike. With Ravagers, there's was really on,y one shot: you can only ever like the thing or dislike it. Not much room for middle-ground, Id also like to point out that the tone and content of criticism is largely irrelevant. And, to be sure, most (literally all that I've seen) of the Ravagers criticism has been pretty valid points delivered in calm, respective manners. Responding to critics is always kind of unprofessional, or at least unwise, but it seems especially foolish when said criticism is so mild and gently put. And, like, y'all know how tedious it is to even bring up his name, but just look at Chris Chibnall. He's received a great deal of often extremely vitriolic criticism over the last two (three?) years, and while some of it was very legitimate, much of it was not. But he never felt the need to wade into the morass and attack his critics directly. (Though, admittedly, with my luck he's probably had a Twitter Tantrum meltdown or two I'd never noticed....)
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Post by Kestrel on Aug 16, 2021 3:37:14 GMT
Okay, so swerving back in topic (apologies for the double post, but I felt it best to keep these things segregate): I've finished Responds To All Calls. My hot take? Because, of course, I have one: I don't think it's significantly better or worse than Ravagers. In fact, I'd say both sets are of roughly equivalent quality, and that quality is fairly mediocre. I am reminded of the first three 10DA sets, which were mostly notable simply for featuring the return of David Tennant, despite the individual stories being rather unremarkable. Here, too, I think we have decent stories that seem to strive almost exclusively to capture the feel of the RTD era, and because they're chasing after that template with such fixation, they don't really try very hard to break new ground. The result is a set of fun popcorn stories mostly notable for the novelty of seeing--or, rather, hearing--Eccleston reprise the role of the Doctor, and little else. Which is all an unfortunately verbose way of saying that while I enjoyed these stories, I very much doubt I'd ever feel compelled to give them a relisten. There just isn't enough thematic depth or nuance to keep me engaged. And, as per my usual custom, some brief bullet-pointed thoughts in the individual stories: 9DA 2.1: Girl, Deconstructed- Definitely an odd choice of title: I only recognize it because I remember my older sister really liking the movie when I was a kid. I wonder just how many of Big Finish's audience are familiar with the 1999 film?
- Love the idea of the father and daughter reconnecting through her "haunting," but their whole relationship never felt like much more than a loose assembly of cliches. At least the mother wasn't fridged.
- Oh god, oh god. There's way, way too much technobabble.
9DA 2.2: Fright Motif
- Oh, wow. The American accents are believable here. How unusual. I even suspect one or two cast members might even be using their native accents.
- Love the setting and set-up, and the characters... but the actual conflict doesn't do much for me. Too much running around for flimsy reasons, to fight against a poorly-defined foe.
- Kinda feels like this is trying to emulate those early experimental MRs that tried to play around some with the audio format, with Pratchett-esque conceptual beings. Only... without sufficient imagination.
- Gotta appreciate how this is an Austin Powers plot: oh no! He's lost his mojo!
- Wow, that cacophony at the end was really unpleasant to listen to.
9DA 2.3: Planet of the End- Definitely the best story of the set, I think, and not just because I'm a big sucker for AI/robot stories.
- Really love Fred's whole personality and mannerisms here. Probably among my favorite AIs in Doctor Who. She's just a lot of fun in all of her scenes.
- Love the bit about the Doctor wanting to spend a century on this dead planet doing nothing but being pedantic and constantly correcting Fred.
- A tomb that winds up being a trap for the Doctor feels very familiar. Very Pandorica.
- Oh, neat, another one of Big Finish's toothless political stories. How many different ways can you say, "capitalism bad," without saying capitalism bad? I dunno, but BF seems determined to find out. Making the villains "money fetishists" is certainly... something.
- Quote-of-the-set: "Ive got a beard!"
- Maybe I'm alone in this, but I would very much like to see this audio-incarnation of the 9th Doctor have his own unique look. Give him a new costume and let him wear the beard! Give us some nice visual continuity to distinguish between pre-and-post-Rose.
- So, erm... it was a fun reference, but how does the Family of Blood being interred on this graveyard planet make any sense?
- Oh god. Oh god. Why are they acting like this is a good/happy ending? The credits roll on such a sour nite, with Fred doomed to spend eternity--or at least the rest of her indeterminate life--marooned and alone on a dead world. With no one to talk to but herself. What a downer.
And... that's pretty much it. None of the stories struck me as particularly good, or particularly bad, though in retrospect perhaps Planet of the End is better than I initially credited it. One thing that strikes me as unfortunate (and possibly the biggest disappointment of the set so far) is just how familiar the 9th Doctor's character is here. Big Finish has, or had, the opportunity to craft a character arc here--to show us how the Doctor used to be someone else before meeting Rose. But this 9th Doctor does not seem appreciably distinct. Not only does this rob of us of one potential new character arc, it also undermines the Doctor's arc in the TV series, since evidently he did not need Rose to become his best self--he was already there.
So... yeah. That's everything. At this point I strongly suspect the rest of the 9DAs will be similarly unambitious. It's disappointing, but not, perhaps, unsurprising. Hopefully we eventually get to the point where Eccleston can find himself with more interesting and/or experimental stories, as Tennant and McGann got in the recent Dalek Universe and Stranded ranges.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Aug 16, 2021 7:31:29 GMT
(Though, admittedly, with my luck he's probably had a Twitter Tantrum meltdown or two I'd never noticed....) Chibbers isn't on twitter but yes it shows that Briggs needs to, quite frankly, grow up & learn to take it on the chin.
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Post by cyrano on Aug 16, 2021 8:58:24 GMT
I thought Planet of the End and Fright Motif were extremely strong here, the performances in Fright Motif particularly, and the chemistry between the Doctor and Fred the AI (both as written and as performed) was very convincing and entertaining. Less enamoured with Girl, Deconstructed. It felt, ironically, quite insubstantial and while the idea of the daughter and father rebuilding their relationship through this haunting (with a new nice touches that connect with classic poltergeist ideas) is good, it didn't feel like it especially does much with it. There weren't many specifics about the rift in their relationship, nor did their reconnecting seem to connect especially to her situation: just a dad's generic worry making him value her more rather than anything especially interesting or lyrical about the way she's haunting the house or unseen, or all around him or anything.
I did find myself missing the Ravagers actually. It had a sense of scale that I missed here. With none of the stories adding up to any more than the sum of their parts (and in some cases less) I missed a bigger narrative and greater stakes.
I'm interested to see some people talking about how much this resembles the RTD era and isn't breaking new ground. To me it feels very distinct: often less grounded in the 21st century, and the Doctor's character is less dark. I think the great darkness of the character in the 2005 series can be overstated by fans, but he was still the Doctor of "stupid apes", "I couldn't save them!", picking up a gun to face the Dalek and blowing up Downing Street with a missile. He feels pretty light and carefree here. And the dialogue feels more stylised: his favourite ice-cream is...some kind of space berry? Not raspberry ripple, not chocolate. It feels at times like a comic-book spin on the character and era - that's not intended to be an insult!
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Post by sherlock on Aug 16, 2021 20:52:50 GMT
Oh I enjoyed this a lot.
Its a prime example of what I consider “meat and potatoes” Doctor Who. No end of the world/universe, no random crossovers or significant continuity - just a small scale concept and group of new characters. It works really well, and yes I do prefer this approach to the cosmic mayhem of Ravagers. I still enjoyed the first set, but I can see myself revisiting this one a lot more often.
The Ninth Doctor’s character is still leaning heavily on the positive outlook, which I’m just assuming is a conscious choice at this point. It’s not really where he was at the start of Series 1, but it’s no deal breaker for me.
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Post by Who Review on Aug 19, 2021 14:36:46 GMT
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Post by andrew on Aug 19, 2021 20:34:38 GMT
Listened to Girl, Deconstructed tonight. It had me at: “Whereabouts in Scotland?” “Dundee.” I’m in my 40s. Probably shouldn’t have got such a thrill at a story set in my city, especially given it turned out to be merely just a nominal setting. I’ll wait for iainmclaughlin to properly set a story in our hometown.
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Post by mrperson on Aug 20, 2021 20:19:40 GMT
Almost done with the third ep (workout ended). I do appreciate that the order of events was a bit easier to understand in this set. I'm going to have to relisten to the first one once or twice before I work out the precise order, methinks.
That said, I couldn't be happier that Eccleston is back in it. Good stories.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 7:25:35 GMT
I'm interested to see some people talking about how much this resembles the RTD era and isn't breaking new ground. To me it feels very distinct: often less grounded in the 21st century, and the Doctor's character is less dark. I think the great darkness of the character in the 2005 series can be overstated by fans, but he was still the Doctor of "stupid apes", "I couldn't save them!", picking up a gun to face the Dalek and blowing up Downing Street with a missile. He feels pretty light and carefree here. And the dialogue feels more stylised: his favourite ice-cream is...some kind of space berry? Not raspberry ripple, not chocolate. It feels at times like a comic-book spin on the character and era - that's not intended to be an insult! I've not listened to these yet, and comments like these are definitely part of my reason why. I like my ninth doctor full of post time war angst, and I feel like setting stories before Rose where he's a happy fluffy bunny undermines that. Is there any way these can be imagined as happening after Boom Town, with Rose and Jack left on Earth for a bit? Otherwise, with the stories seeming to be bland average big Finish fare, relying on the presence of CE to sell copies, I think I'll give them a miss. Edit: to be clear, not complaining about the review itself, I find it very helpful.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Aug 21, 2021 8:00:01 GMT
I'm interested to see some people talking about how much this resembles the RTD era and isn't breaking new ground. To me it feels very distinct: often less grounded in the 21st century, and the Doctor's character is less dark. I think the great darkness of the character in the 2005 series can be overstated by fans, but he was still the Doctor of "stupid apes", "I couldn't save them!", picking up a gun to face the Dalek and blowing up Downing Street with a missile. He feels pretty light and carefree here. And the dialogue feels more stylised: his favourite ice-cream is...some kind of space berry? Not raspberry ripple, not chocolate. It feels at times like a comic-book spin on the character and era - that's not intended to be an insult! I've not listened to these yet, and comments like these are definitely part of my reason why. I like my ninth doctor full of post time war angst, and I feel like setting stories before Rose where he's a happy fluffy bunny undermines that. Is there any way these can be imagined as happening after Boom Town, with Rose and Jack left on Earth for a bit? Otherwise, with the stories seeming to be bland average big Finish fare, relying on the presence of CE to sell copies, I think I'll give them a miss. Edit: to be clear, not complaining about the review itself, I find it very helpful. Up to you I guess if you want to imagine them in-between certain on screen stories. For me I'm not too bothered about continuity but these are NOT "bland average big Finish fare".
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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 21, 2021 10:40:57 GMT
I've no regrets about the first set. Again, I'm just as happy if didn't get too fancy while I was just trying to adjust to the Ninth Doctor's return. I also think it was fine to have an appetizer for the warm-up because I think Eccleston's performance took a little bit to settle back in as did Tom Baker's, IMHO - and if you don't mean to open with Dorney stories, why tap Dorney, so to speak.
Conversely I guess I didn't think as much of this as a set as some people might have. The first two stories were amazing and Eccleston is very much perfectly settled back into the role here (bravo, Mr. Eccleston!), but I was actually let down somewhat by the third story.
I very much liked Fred and the progression of positive events was wonderful, but it still felt thin and even a bit drawn out to me, and I think that might have also dragged down any statements about corporate matters that were trying to be made into just kind of preachy. I'm not that fond of when years pass in a story either and it seems more passe than ever since Heaven Sent raised the bar so high on that. Also it even felt a bit cheeky in a way that didn't quite mesh with the way I usually think of Doctor Who as amusing, or even maybe outright silly or cartoonish?
Just not one I'm really looking forward to listening to again that much. That of course may well be just my sensibilities - if I actually have anything I'd call sensibility, lol - but I'm still by no means disappointed by the set as a whole nor the range as a whole thus far.
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Post by cyrano on Aug 21, 2021 19:37:05 GMT
I'm interested to see some people talking about how much this resembles the RTD era and isn't breaking new ground. To me it feels very distinct: often less grounded in the 21st century, and the Doctor's character is less dark. I think the great darkness of the character in the 2005 series can be overstated by fans, but he was still the Doctor of "stupid apes", "I couldn't save them!", picking up a gun to face the Dalek and blowing up Downing Street with a missile. He feels pretty light and carefree here. And the dialogue feels more stylised: his favourite ice-cream is...some kind of space berry? Not raspberry ripple, not chocolate. It feels at times like a comic-book spin on the character and era - that's not intended to be an insult! I've not listened to these yet, and comments like these are definitely part of my reason why. I like my ninth doctor full of post time war angst, and I feel like setting stories before Rose where he's a happy fluffy bunny undermines that. Is there any way these can be imagined as happening after Boom Town, with Rose and Jack left on Earth for a bit? Otherwise, with the stories seeming to be bland average big Finish fare, relying on the presence of CE to sell copies, I think I'll give them a miss. Edit: to be clear, not complaining about the review itself, I find it very helpful. I did initially feel quite similar to you: there's a very specific feel to that first series in 2005, and what I was looking for from Big Finish was the same sort of game-playing recreation they'd do in the 60s Companion Chronicles, where they're careful about how they emulate the era and don't treat ensuing parts of the show's history as though they've happened. That's not the approach they've taken with the 9th Doctor. It feels like more of a Colin Baker style soft reinvention, focusing on the aspects of the character the actor is keen to emphasise. And actually...that's OK! Eccleston's giving a very committed performance, and the Big Finish Ninth Doctor Era is coalescing into its own distinct thing, with its own distinct style. It's pretty hard to reconcile the Doctor we hear in these stories with the one we saw on screen. But I mind that less than I thought I would. I'm glad they exist, and I'm glad Eccleston's returned for another go at the part. More obsessive fans than me can worry about the canon.
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Post by constonks on Aug 21, 2021 20:04:16 GMT
Hey I'd call myself an obsessive fan and I'm fine with it. The Doctor's just not facing his demons here. Right now, he's just running, being a Doctor, not dwelling. By the time Series One rolls around, the Time War is weighing heavy on his conscience once again - maybe he slowed down too long and was forced to think about it (or maybe taking a companion onboard just means answering a lot of awkward questions and it makes him think).
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Post by sherlock on Aug 21, 2021 21:16:18 GMT
Hey I'd call myself an obsessive fan and I'm fine with it. The Doctor's just not facing his demons here. Right now, he's just running, being a Doctor, not dwelling. By the time Series One rolls around, the Time War is weighing heavy on his conscience once again - maybe he slowed down too long and was forced to think about it (or maybe taking a companion onboard just means answering a lot of awkward questions and it makes him think). Also possible it’s the impact of confronting the Nestene Consciousness that brings it out of him, as it’s a fellow survivor of the War and makes a point of bringing it up (at least based on his response to it).
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Aug 21, 2021 21:28:46 GMT
I'll also add that I thing BF are being sympathetic to Eccleston's interests. As an actor he seems to be someone who likes to move forward so coming back to Doctor Who he doesn't want to just recreate what he's already done, from a creative point of view for him it seems pointless to do so.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Aug 22, 2021 15:14:19 GMT
I'll also add that I thing BF are being sympathetic to Eccleston's interests. As an actor he seems to be someone who likes to move forward so coming back to Doctor Who he doesn't want to just recreate what he's already done, from a creative point of view for him it seems pointless to do so. As well they should be. Colin Baker was pretty upfront that he wanted a shift in tone & emphasis for the 6th Doctor when he began recording BF adventures as the character and it sounds like Chris Eccleston wanted the same thing. Plus, let’s be honest. This is happening 15 years after his one series, he has grown & matured as a person & as an actor and he has had a lot of time to think about what he did with the role and what he wishes he had done, so of course the character is going to be a little different. None of that even factors in the change of medium for the adventures.
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