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Post by Kestrel on May 26, 2021 22:00:59 GMT
Am I jumping the gun a bit here? I dunno. What I do know is that I have been crazy-hyped for a hypothetical 2DA range ever since I first got into Big Finish, and am unbelievably excited right now! Presumably this will pick up on some of the (tantalizing) threads from The Blazing Hour.No story or casting or writing info yet, but given the season 6B premise, there are fewer issues with Frazier Hines voicing the 2nd Doctor here. And hhhhnnnnnnnnnggg it's only a year away! I dunno, y'all. If you though the wait for Ravagers was bad.... .... So, what kinds of stories do you want to see explored (or not explored) in the 2DAs? Given the (assumed) mind-wipe at the end, there's... boundless potential here, really. This'll be the only Doctor in the franchise other than good ol' #8 where Big Finish has total freedom to write out any kind of character arc they like. Likewise, this also leaves them room for more timey-wimey nonsense, as they could involve the 2nd Doctor with basically any future story thread or character--the potential is boundless! EDIT: got so excited I forgot to link to the product page! www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/doctor-who-beyond-war-games-2514
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2021 22:16:30 GMT
I know I've mentioned this before, but I would love Beyond the War Games to kick off (or even to end) with an adaption of the old TV Comic strip The Night Walkers where ...... {Spoiler} a group of corporeal scarecrows are revealed the be Time Lords.
If that were to happen, I'd be very happy.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2021 23:50:48 GMT
You know how you have a million ideas and they all empty as soon as the announcement is made? That. I'm having that right now. Wow.
Okay, from the top... # I'd kind of like to see the direct aftermath of The Three Doctors from the Second Doctor's perspective. For all intents and purposes, Gallifrey is still reeling from the attack by Omega, the planet's energies exhausted that they violated their own temporal laws. Someone must have noticed. Whether they were on the planet or outside of it... # We've yet to have a story with the Medusoids mentioned in Frontier in Space (the peace conference story). # The Moving Mines of Korlano Beta, which resembled something of the refinery process in the Blind Heart Desert for The Robots of Death, are still an unexplored mystery. # The World Shapers covered the Planet 14 mystery to a certain degree, but there's nothing to say that it was just one visit. # The story of Nemesis's first launch against the Roundheads and Lady Peinforte is still unexplored. # According to The Butcher of Brisbane, a Doctor is present during the march on Reykjavik (although it could just as easily work for the First/Dodo/Steven).
Those are some of the pre-existing gaps that could be plugged, but outside that... This image of the Second Doctor in 1930s Cambodia has endlessly fascinated me. I like the idea of the Doctor being put down in locations by the Time Lords and not being allowed to leave until he's figured out their assignment. This sometimes taking weeks, months, at a time (and a Time Lord gets bored).
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Post by Kestrel on May 27, 2021 0:37:46 GMT
Ahahaha.... yeah. (EDIT: that's a good premise for #2, also very Quantum Leapish). Anyway.... My big idea is that since the Doctor is, presumably, working for the CIA... we could get a rookie CIA on board the TARDIS to help him out. Narvin's companion debut!
In general I think this could be a cool vehicle to show other Time Lords "before they were famous." EG early incarnation of Ollistra, the Collective, Padrac, etc. It would also be fun, I think, to see a window into this earlier, more isolationist/non-interventionalist Gallifrey, right when those attitudes and policies are starting to change,
It would also be interesting, in light of the events of 'The War Games,' if it was the Doctor himself who persuades Gallifrey to take a more active role--that the season 6B adventures are his decision, not theirs--unknowingly setting in motion a sequence of events that will, several millennia later, lead to the last, great time war.
It's also gonna be really interesting to see how Big Finish chooses to contextualize that mind wipe. Does it happen at the Doctor's behest, or Gallifrey's? Is it to cover up a crime or some great secret, or out of guilt, or some bizarre timey-wimey thing? Or maybe ot was an accident? So many possibilities.
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Post by dasmaniac on May 27, 2021 3:08:47 GMT
I know a lot of people aren't keen on a Season 6B but I think it's a good idea and I think it works within the established narrative of the show. Genesis of the Daleks and then the Time War depict a more active Time Lords in the universe. Season 6B lays the groundwork for that.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 27, 2021 5:28:10 GMT
I'm not sure about it all tbh. We see him start to regenerate at the end of The War Games I seem to recall so the whole 6B theory isn't really one I subscribe to but it could be fun. For me it depends on the stories, wasn't the theory that he was supposed to be working for the CIA? But he was sent on a mission by the Time Lords in GOTD & didn't need this to be kept a secret from himself & that was quite a monumental event. The stories have to be distinctly different from your standard Dr. Who adventure for it to really interest me.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2021 6:41:00 GMT
Ahahaha.... yeah. (EDIT: that's a good premise for #2, but also very Quantum Leapish. Anyway.... My big idea is that since the Doctor is, presumably, working for the CIA... we could get a rookie CIA on board the TARDIS to help him out. Narvin's companion debut! In general I think this could be a cool vehicle to show other Time Lords "before they were famous." EG early incarnation of Ollistra, the Collective, Padrac, etc. It would also be fun, I think, to see a window into this earlier, more isolationist/non-interventionalist Gallifrey, right when those attitudes and policies are starting to change, Yeah, let's just say the Time Lords have a habit of dropping him into situations without a brief and expecting him to muddle it out from there. Uxarieus, Peladon, Karn, Telos, Torrok... It's a long and proud tradition of "never a straight answer to a straight question." It would be interesting, starting out, to have the Doctor and company actually trapped wherever they've arrived until they've solved the "problem". Whatever that might be. The TARDIS not powered down or locked up, but physically removed from their space-time -- like with Two and Jamie in The Two Doctors (there, the TARDIS is just gone) -- until the Time Lords consider it appropriate to return it. Oh, I like that pre-fame idea a lot. A group of semi-regular characters that all have their own designs and schemes on the Doctor's travels. Great opportunity to take the circumstances of the Third Doctor's exile and flip it on its head. A sort of anti-UNIT dynamic. It would also be interesting, in light of the events of 'The War Games,' if it was the Doctor himself who persuades Gallifrey to take a more active role--that the season 6B adventures are his decision, not theirs--unknowingly setting in motion a sequence of events that will, several millennia later, lead to the last, great time war. It's also gonna be really interesting to see how Big Finish chooses to contextualize that mind wipe. Does it happen at the Doctor's behest, or Gallifrey's? Is it to cover up a crime or some great secret, or out of guilt, or some bizarre timey-wimey thing? Or maybe ot was an accident? So many possibilities. It's interesting, isn't it? There are many, many places they could go with it. I can think of broadly two ways to link it altogether based on what's been written in 6B already: The Occam's Razor theory (i.e. the straightforward one) -- On a practical level, a mind wipe makes sense for anyone snooping around the Doctor's life. Officially, there's supposed to be no gap between the sentencing and his arrival on Earth. No delays. Just straight into his imprisonment, that's what appears on the paperwork. Unofficially, when he spiralled off into that void, some other party -- not at the Court, but with the Agency -- swiped him up before his "prisoner transfer". By wiping the Doctor's memory, it removes evidence of their involvement and fits rather well with the Third Doctor's memory lapses during his exile. On television, there are facts that he knows are there in his mind. He just can't reach them. One is how to repair his TARDIS, but there are likely many others as well. The Palimpsest theory (i.e. the timey-wimey one) -- Another is the possibility that there wasn't actually a Season 6B originally. What you see is what you get. The Doctor was exiled to Earth, the Omega crisis happened and, after that point, he was released. There's a rumour that Robert Holmes, when he wrote The Two Doctors, was of the mind that the Time Lords (of the Fifth/Sixth Doctor's time) were deliberately going back and altering the Doctor's history. We've seen it happen before, when The Five Doctors erased the Fourth Doctor's version of Shada and brought the Eighth Doctor's visit into existence. The Doctor may not remember because that past is changing out from underneath him. Being created after the fact, after his sentencing, by people who find it useful to use a past incarnation (one who they know has to face exile to protect his own timeline) for their own agenda. Or it could be some combination of both.
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Post by theillusiveman on May 27, 2021 6:41:14 GMT
Atleast now that Season 6B is happening it can explain How The second Doctor can remember the events of The Three Doctors , The Five Doctors and The Two Doctors
Plus heaps of stuff can be done and even have a proper regeneration into the third Doctor
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Post by roosa88 on May 27, 2021 7:28:58 GMT
Atleast now that Season 6B is happening it can explain How The second Doctor can remember the events of The Three Doctors , The Five Doctors and The Two Doctors Plus heaps of stuff can be done and even have a proper regeneration into the third Doctor The Two Doctors is already explained in another Big Finish release (included as spoiler below), one of my favourite 2nd Doctor releases so far... {Spoiler} The Early Adventures 2.3 - The Black Hole
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Post by shallacatop on May 27, 2021 8:23:20 GMT
I think it's got a lot of potential and I'm looking forward to more details as they emerge. What interests me the most is that it's the opportunity for a new era for the Second Doctor that he just doesn't have on screen, as we go from Ben & Polly to Jamie and he's a constant throughout the era. They're all great TARDIS teams, but this is uncharted territory and it's certainly not been done to death previously.
It'll be interesting to see how it's handled. There's scope for something completely unlike this Doctor's era, but there's also opportunity to do something era authentic without the baggage of the TV companions. A hybrid of both would be the best direction I feel; a running theme of the Doctor working for the Time Lords perhaps.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2021 8:45:11 GMT
Still struggling to understand the whole Season 6B concept altogether, but I'm very hopeful that Beyond War Games will properly address various continuity issues, from The Black Hole to The Two Doctors and Colony of Fear. Maybe it'll somehow indirectly reference the "Ruth" Doctor and The Division as well?
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2021 8:50:40 GMT
Atleast now that Season 6B is happening it can explain How The second Doctor can remember the events of The Three Doctors , The Five Doctors and The Two Doctors Plus heaps of stuff can be done and even have a proper regeneration into the third Doctor The Two Doctors is already explained in another Big Finish release (included as spoiler below), one of my favourite 2nd Doctor releases so far... {Spoiler}The Early Adventures 2.3 - The Black Hole That's going to be one of the more interesting aspects starting out, too. The Two Doctors is also explained in... {Spoiler}World Game, written by Terrance Dicks, where the mission to Space Station Camera is very explicitly on the behalf of a post-War Games CIA Doctor (not too inexplicable; The Two Doctors mentions it's the second time the Doctor's visited and the computers on the station do recognise the Sontaran battlecruisers from somewhere...). Depending on how they proceed, we might end up with another The Brink of Death/Spiral Scratch scenario, but there's also a really interesting alternative... There's no guarantee that it'll start directly after The War Games. We might be dropped into things a bit later, in media res, and have to find out the situation as each story unfolds. Piece-by-piece. I could really go for that as a listener.
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Post by theillusiveman on May 27, 2021 9:34:16 GMT
The Two Doctors is already explained in another Big Finish release (included as spoiler below), one of my favourite 2nd Doctor releases so far... {Spoiler}The Early Adventures 2.3 - The Black Hole That's going to be one of the more interesting aspects starting out, too. The Two Doctors is also explained in... {Spoiler}World Game, written by Terrance Dicks, where the mission to Space Station Camera is very explicitly on the behalf of a post-War Games CIA Doctor (not too inexplicable; The Two Doctors mentions it's the second time the Doctor's visited and the computers on the station do recognise the Sontaran battlecruisers from somewhere...). Depending on how they proceed, we might end up with another The Brink of Death/Spiral Scratch scenario, but there's also a really interesting alternative... There's no guarantee that it'll start directly after The War Games. We might be dropped into things a bit later, in media res, and have to find out the situation as each story unfolds. Piece-by-piece. I could really go for that as a listener. World Game was the first in universe introduction of the Psychic Paper too
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Post by thelonecenturion on May 27, 2021 9:57:09 GMT
The Two Doctors is already explained in another Big Finish release (included as spoiler below), one of my favourite 2nd Doctor releases so far... {Spoiler}The Early Adventures 2.3 - The Black Hole That's going to be one of the more interesting aspects starting out, too. The Two Doctors is also explained in... {Spoiler}World Game, written by Terrance Dicks, where the mission to Space Station Camera is very explicitly on the behalf of a post-War Games CIA Doctor (not too inexplicable; The Two Doctors mentions it's the second time the Doctor's visited and the computers on the station do recognise the Sontaran battlecruisers from somewhere...). Depending on how they proceed, we might end up with another The Brink of Death/Spiral Scratch scenario, but there's also a really interesting alternative... There's no guarantee that it'll start directly after The War Games. We might be dropped into things a bit later, in media res, and have to find out the situation as each story unfolds. Piece-by-piece. I could really go for that as a listener.Well, Briggs is script-editing this set, and he does love that style (as do I), so it's definitely a possibility.
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Post by Kestrel on May 27, 2021 10:55:09 GMT
Yeah, let's just say the Time Lords have a habit of dropping him into situations without a brief and expecting him to muddle it out from there. I haven't listened to any EDAs, so I can't really "picture" Frazier Hines in the role... but I can very easily "see" Patrick Troughton being plopped down on some random planet by himself, looking up at the camera and exclaiming, "What is it you expect me to do here!?" as it zooms out. Just completely fed up with the Time Lord's opaque nonsense and high-handedness. Imthink ive maybe said this elsewhere, but a big part of why I'm so excited for these 2DAs is that Troughton's Doctor really is the black sheep of the franchise, in that his performance is very different to all the others. Yes, each Doctor is unique, but the 2nd Doctor especially so. I definitely hope Big Finish sends him on a very diverse spread of stories, rather than falling into a singe "signature style" as they've done with, well, everything but the 8DAs.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on May 27, 2021 11:05:05 GMT
Well then, this looks like it could be an absolute doozy. Curious if Frazer's doing 2 again, or if they'll do a replacement VA like 3's?
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2021 22:45:22 GMT
Yeah, let's just say the Time Lords have a habit of dropping him into situations without a brief and expecting him to muddle it out from there. I haven't listened to any EDAs, so I can't really "picture" Frazier Hines in the role... but I can very easily "see" Patrick Troughton being plopped down on some random planet by himself, looking up at the camera and exclaiming, "What is it you expect me to do here!?" as it zooms out. Just completely fed up with the Time Lord's opaque nonsense and high-handedness. Imthink ive maybe said this elsewhere, but a big part of why I'm so excited for these 2DAs is that Troughton's Doctor really is the black sheep of the franchise, in that his performance is very different to all the others. Yes, each Doctor is unique, but the 2nd Doctor especially so. I definitely hope Big Finish sends him on a very diverse spread of stories, rather than falling into a singe "signature style" as they've done with, well, everything but the 8DAs. (I can recommend Lords of the Red Planet from the Lost Stories range, if you want to give Frazier Hines's portrayal of the Doctor a try. It's uncanny and a very good story, to boot.) Talking about signature style... Going from Season 6 to 7 might be one of the biggest stylistic changes in the classic series on television. Not just with the addition of colour broadcasting, but storytelling textures as well. Where we begin on the Second Doctor's final year is startlingly different to how we start with the Third Doctor. When one was facing The Mind Robber, the other was negotiating The Silurians. It'd be a great opportunity to see if writers could blend the two together. There's a writing challenge, actually, take something like The Krotons and mix it together with Inferno.
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Post by xlozdob on May 28, 2021 11:25:32 GMT
I'm so excited about this, it's something I've been waiting for Big Finish to do since I became a regular listener. It's a period of the Doctor's life I find so fascinating. I hope there are hints of the Gallifrey referenced during the Moffat and Chibnall eras, along with the 8th Doctor MR/Gallifrey Gallifrey. I'm not expecting Lungbarrow: The Prequel, but I find that Gallifrey is still such an interesting setting, especially in this unexplored non-interventionist era. Hopefully there's plenty of that apart from the inevitable off-world missions.
Actually, thinking about it, I hope the CIA uses an extraction chamber to kidnap the Doctor.
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Post by fitzoliverj on May 28, 2021 18:30:29 GMT
Some thoughts -
"World Game"/"Players" establishes that what we see in "The War Games" is an unreliable narrative, so there's no reason why BF shouldn't contradict the novels in the same spirit
is this the only second Doctor range? Will the Early Adventures continue, perhaps with Fraser Hines in those and another actor (sans Jamie) in the 6b continuity? It strikes me that if there is any truth to the recast rumour, it's most likely in a run of stories that lack any classic companions.
and if it is a new actor, is it Michael Troughton?
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Post by fitzoliverj on May 28, 2021 18:34:04 GMT
The Two Doctors is already explained in another Big Finish release (included as spoiler below), one of my favourite 2nd Doctor releases so far... {Spoiler}The Early Adventures 2.3 - The Black Hole That's going to be one of the more interesting aspects starting out, too. The Two Doctors is also explained in... {Spoiler}World Game, written by Terrance Dicks, where the mission to Space Station Camera is very explicitly on the behalf of a post-War Games CIA Doctor (not too inexplicable; The Two Doctors mentions it's the second time the Doctor's visited and the computers on the station do recognise the Sontaran battlecruisers from somewhere...).
Been a while since {Spoiler} I've listened to the former or read the latter, but as I recall the explanation is that in "The Black Hole" the Doctor and Jamie have a series of adventures, on of which sounds superficially like "The Two Doctors", but isn't. They *do* go to Space Station Camera, but for the opening ceremony alluded to in the tv story. Then in "World Game", what looks like some poor dialogue from Terrance Dicks is actually an incredible prediction of future BF storylines - the reason the Doctor suddenly decides to tell Jamie that Victoria is off studying graphology, even though there's no reason for Jamie to think he should be accompanied by her in the first place, seeing as how he's about to be retrieved from Scotland post-Trial, is because the Doctor's realised that the best way to restore Jamie's memories is to make him think he's experiencing the original trip to Camera. Or something. Come to think of it, does "The Black Hole" explain the inconsistency over the Doctor openly talking about the Time Lords?
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