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Post by Kestrel on Oct 28, 2021 10:37:15 GMT
Yeah, the fall of the Berlin Wall seems like one of those *ideal* moments to work into a Doctor Who story, not unlike the 1914 "Christmas Truce" -- a conspicuous absence. But I'm sure the franchise'll get around to it someday.
Would love to see the Doctor involved with some of those weird/bizarre/impossible plans to smuggle people from East to West. very fertile ground of secret alien conspiracies and optimistic, historically resonant resolutions.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 28, 2021 13:33:48 GMT
The final 2 stories were better but this still feels to me like a set that is redeemed somewhat by the pairing of River & Liz as the stories are just OK. The inevitable meeting between River & 3 was fine I guess, but it all feels like a novelty we've heard too many times now. I would have preferred the continued dynamic between River & Liz without 3 at all. Some good strong female parts throughout as well. {Spoiler} Of course we have the inevitable mind wipe of the Doctor AGAIN. Which makes it even more of just a gimmick. The Master turning up at the end, would have been OK if I even recognised who it was! Culshaw's impression was bad.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 28, 2021 16:51:27 GMT
Yeah, the fall of the Berlin Wall seems like one of those *ideal* moments to work into a Doctor Who story, not unlike the 1914 "Christmas Truce" -- a conspicuous absence. But I'm sure the franchise'll get around to it someday. Would love to see the Doctor involved with some of those weird/bizarre/impossible plans to smuggle people from East to West. very fertile ground of secret alien conspiracies and optimistic, historically resonant resolutions. They did the Christmas Truce in the last 12th Doctor Christmas Special.
Otherwise, yes, totally agree!
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Post by grinch on Oct 28, 2021 16:52:17 GMT
Yeah, the fall of the Berlin Wall seems like one of those *ideal* moments to work into a Doctor Who story, not unlike the 1914 "Christmas Truce" -- a conspicuous absence. But I'm sure the franchise'll get around to it someday. Would love to see the Doctor involved with some of those weird/bizarre/impossible plans to smuggle people from East to West. very fertile ground of secret alien conspiracies and optimistic, historically resonant resolutions. They did the Christmas Truce in the last 12th Doctor Christmas Special.
Otherwise, yes, totally agree!
I could be wrong but I think it was also briefly used in one of the First Doctor Short Trips. The Little Drummer Boy or something.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 16:59:14 GMT
So what do we all think of the final moments? Well.... {Spoiler} Jon Culshaw's Delgardo Master was not the best they honestly should have gotten someone else that sounded closer to the voice or if they had to have a Master get Culshaw's Ainley Master
i did like the interaction between the two characters though it creates a plothole for Series 5
{Spoiler} Animal Instinct has Beever's Master not recognizing River
Have to agree i listened a few times to see if i felt it was a good portrayal
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 17:06:28 GMT
It occurs to me that Doctor Who may be especially bad when it comes to Germany. Granted I've only seen a fraction of Who media out there, but it seems to me that we only ever see Nazis or Nazi-alikes... when there's so much rich history to explore. Granted, Doctor Who is very Anglocentric first, but it's very Eurocentric second and I feel like there are more varied stories set in Russia, Italy and France, at least. Anyway -- I wound up skipping this set to buy some of the MRs on sale instead (Klein's second trilogy go go go!) and maybe it's kinda impolite to say this, but I'm kinda relieved this set isn't anything too spectacular. Though it is such a fun premise... hm... maybe I'll be able to grab it before the price hike next month.... They got a lot better. In several past box sets, they did a really good job with hiring German-speaking voice actors (for example on the 7th Doctor box set).
On the conventions here, BF does a lot of advertising and they clearly know they have a small, but dedicated fanbase here. They host some great panels and Jason is happy to chat to all of us.
This is why I was so shocked about this HUGE step back.
And yes, I agree, I would wish for a great "fall of the Berlin Wall" story that is on my wishlist for Who, or a story of the villagers in my village going after the SS guys hiding out to "defend against the American invaders" (and risking the total destruction of my village) holding pitchforks and kicking the SS out. There are soooooo many stories they could tell. But I am also aware that since this is an English show, mostly other history does not exist. Sadly.
I wouldn’t worry No Robert Bruce or Mary Queen of Scots or William Wallace but as the fan base grows so do the writers and therefore the world base for a setting.I mean we had The great White Hurricane,Samurai etc etc etc etc and writers will go further afield Hapsburg dynasty and with lockdown pretty much am praying a thing of the past the ability to employ from a wider world set of actors will also grow too
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 28, 2021 17:12:12 GMT
They got a lot better. In several past box sets, they did a really good job with hiring German-speaking voice actors (for example on the 7th Doctor box set).
On the conventions here, BF does a lot of advertising and they clearly know they have a small, but dedicated fanbase here. They host some great panels and Jason is happy to chat to all of us.
This is why I was so shocked about this HUGE step back.
And yes, I agree, I would wish for a great "fall of the Berlin Wall" story that is on my wishlist for Who, or a story of the villagers in my village going after the SS guys hiding out to "defend against the American invaders" (and risking the total destruction of my village) holding pitchforks and kicking the SS out. There are soooooo many stories they could tell. But I am also aware that since this is an English show, mostly other history does not exist. Sadly.
I wouldn’t worry No Robert Bruce or Mary Queen of Scots or William Wallace but as the fan base grows so do the writers and therefore the world base for a setting.I mean we had The great White Hurricane,Samurai etc etc etc etc and writers will go further afield Hapsburg dynasty and with lockdown pretty much am praying a thing of the past the ability to employ from a wider world set of actors will also grow too I know. I am just puzzling over the fact why they have taken a step back, that's all.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 28, 2021 17:20:10 GMT
Well.... {Spoiler} Jon Culshaw's Delgardo Master was not the best they honestly should have gotten someone else that sounded closer to the voice or if they had to have a Master get Culshaw's Ainley Master
i did like the interaction between the two characters though it creates a plothole for Series 5
{Spoiler} Animal Instinct has Beever's Master not recognizing River
Have to agree i listened a few times to see if i felt it was a good portrayal Jonathan Carley does a better Delgado. I do think that Culshaw always sounds like Culshaw regardless of who he is doing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 17:24:39 GMT
I wouldn’t worry No Robert Bruce or Mary Queen of Scots or William Wallace but as the fan base grows so do the writers and therefore the world base for a setting.I mean we had The great White Hurricane,Samurai etc etc etc etc and writers will go further afield Hapsburg dynasty and with lockdown pretty much am praying a thing of the past the ability to employ from a wider world set of actors will also grow too I know. I am just puzzling over the fact why they have taken a step back, that's all.
Welll it has been a tricky few years and am sure no offence was meant
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 17:25:17 GMT
Have to agree i listened a few times to see if i felt it was a good portrayal Jonathan Carley does a better Delgado. I do think that Culshaw always sounds like Culshaw regardless of who he is doing. Haven’t heard him do it...
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 28, 2021 17:25:26 GMT
They got a lot better. In several past box sets, they did a really good job with hiring German-speaking voice actors (for example on the 7th Doctor box set).
On the conventions here, BF does a lot of advertising and they clearly know they have a small, but dedicated fanbase here. They host some great panels and Jason is happy to chat to all of us.
This is why I was so shocked about this HUGE step back.
And yes, I agree, I would wish for a great "fall of the Berlin Wall" story that is on my wishlist for Who, or a story of the villagers in my village going after the SS guys hiding out to "defend against the American invaders" (and risking the total destruction of my village) holding pitchforks and kicking the SS out. There are soooooo many stories they could tell. But I am also aware that since this is an English show, mostly other history does not exist. Sadly.
I wouldn’t worry No Robert Bruce or Mary Queen of Scots or William Wallace but as the fan base grows so do the writers and therefore the world base for a setting.I mean we had The great White Hurricane,Samurai etc etc etc etc and writers will go further afield Hapsburg dynasty and with lockdown pretty much am praying a thing of the past the ability to employ from a wider world set of actors will also grow too We've had 3 Scottish actors as Doctor Who!
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 28, 2021 17:27:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 17:28:17 GMT
I wouldn’t worry No Robert Bruce or Mary Queen of Scots or William Wallace but as the fan base grows so do the writers and therefore the world base for a setting.I mean we had The great White Hurricane,Samurai etc etc etc etc and writers will go further afield Hapsburg dynasty and with lockdown pretty much am praying a thing of the past the ability to employ from a wider world set of actors will also grow too We've had 3 Scottish actors as Doctor Who! We aren’t talking about that we are talking settings lol this isn’t a jibe we have a lot of Scottish writers also in the fold and therefore expands the possibilities of storylines and settings and with the American audiences as i have many American friends we will also end up with a lot of American based tales
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 17:29:38 GMT
Oh man he is good that’s instant recognition..he is the man if they have to include him...thanks for that
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 28, 2021 17:37:45 GMT
Oh man he is good that’s instant recognition..he is the man if they have to include him...thanks for that Marshall Tankersley is pretty good as 3rd Doctor in it. Its a fun fan made audio drama even if their Doctor is a bit generic.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 17:45:14 GMT
Oh man he is good that’s instant recognition..he is the man if they have to include him...thanks for that Marshall Tankersley is pretty good as 3rd Doctor in it. Its a fun fan made audio drama even if their Doctor is a bit generic. Ive saved it for later to have a whole listen to it all.
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Post by Max The Autist on Oct 28, 2021 19:02:09 GMT
Hi, as the only person who wholeheartedly loved this box set (aside from the geography mess up, thanks for pointing that out Tuigirl!), I've gotta say, If the third doctor doesn't lose his memory explicitly, you would be complaining about the plothole instead of this seeming like a gimmick, which it is, because this entire boxset series is about gimmicks, I'd like River on her own no Doctor stuff involved, but hey, it'll do.Also the stories don't feel generic aside from the first one (missed my mark on that guess, huh?). Generally, I think this is the best River Song box set in a WHILE. I didn't really dislike any of the stories, defo a great box set. I hate seeing people not like it, but I guess I do understand why, even if I REALLY disagree. I love river so much, her first box set was the first or second BF I ever bought! So, I've claimed the first 5/5 rating of the box set thus far! Hope to see more love for it in the future. {Spoiler} the Delgado Master impression wasn't too bad, and they did want it to be a surprise and having jonathan carley in something would be weird since he's only done his war doctor impression so far, so seeing him on the list would raise suspicions, also getting his memory wiped sounds about right for when he escapes, we don't have to see everything, some things can just be assumed.
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Post by grinch on Oct 28, 2021 19:03:58 GMT
To be honest, when it comes to the fact that the Doctor’s memory has to be wiped every time he encounters River I’d almost suggest taking a note out of the Shadow’s book and suggest that she has implanted a post hypnotic suggestion in the Doctor so as he forgets her or otherwise remembers her as someone else.
Probably would still have the same issues though in that you’d have to repeatedly bring it up.
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Post by shallacatop on Oct 29, 2021 6:25:18 GMT
Enjoyed this. None of the stories are remarkable or particularly memorable, but it’s the pairing of River and Liz that is very much the highlight and driving force of the set. Their relationship is lovely, bringing out a more subdued side to River and a mischievous side to Liz.
Out of the individual episodes, I think I probably enjoyed the first one the most. I did like how bonkers the second one is. The third is a mundane first half with a great second. The fourth wasn’t bad, but I’m not really sure that the Doctor contributed all that much. I wasn’t keen on Tim Treloar at all, unfortunately, and I think it’s probably the worst I’ve heard from him. He seems to have gone from being great to being some sort of Jon Pertwee soundalike with no real performance in there. It’s a disservice to Treloar, Pertwee and the Third Doctor. Jon Culshaw’s Brig was patchy in a few places in the first episode too, going into his Pertwee at times!
As for the ending, I’m indifferent really. The impression isn’t strong enough for me to have known who it was instantly, and the set doesn’t feel like it built up enough to earn the big reveal.
It’s an average set of stories elevated by Alex Kingston and Daisy Ashford, who are brilliant.
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Post by noneofyourbusiness on Oct 29, 2021 13:35:27 GMT
not unlike the 1914 "Christmas Truce" -- a conspicuous absence. But I'm sure the franchise'll get around to it someday. The Christmas Truce was the subject of Nine and Rose's story in the The Forgotten comic series.
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