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Post by doctorkernow on Jul 30, 2021 8:43:51 GMT
Hello again
Emma Reeves would be a good choice. She was also the writer and co-creator of Eve, a CBBC series about a female android called Eve. One if its episodes won the Children’s BAFTA. She also worked on the hilarious Tracy Beaker.
Adults look down on children’s tv but some excellent, exciting work is done for the most critical audience in the world. And while I’m at it, Debbie Moon, creator of Wolfblood would be a great addition to the Doctor Who writer’s room.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 9:05:38 GMT
Going back to the discussion of writers & showrunners. Would it be unrealistic to go back to the Showrunner being more of a traditional story commissioner/producer like Phillip Hinchcliffe & JNT with other writers with a strong track record for taking care of business on the storytelling and scriptwriting duties? John Dorney and Jonathan Morris cropped up yesterday and have a solid (prolific, even) record of being able to deliver excellent Doctor Who that pleases us fans without being beholden to their predecessors. It should not matter one iota whether they have comparable experience writing for TV as that is where a script editor fits in. They should not therefore be under that kind of executive pressure, working purely as a creative force. It's starting to look pretty practical, isn't it? I'm hoping that whoever is set to come next will look into that split as an option. Production is tough at the best of times, but when you combine that with being creatively responsible for every single story from the pitch to the final script, I'm not surprised people burn out. I think in that position, I'd look at it in a Venn diagram of three. The producer in one, the script editor in the other, and a shortlist of rescue writers. Eleventh-hour authors you can call up and say, "Production's gone sideways. Border's closed and the writer's stuck overseas... Looked promising, but I need a script and I need it now. Can you give us something to put into production via the script editor at extremely short notice, using the new criteria of [X], [Y] and [Z]?"
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 30, 2021 9:32:43 GMT
Going back to the discussion of writers & showrunners. Would it be unrealistic to go back to the Showrunner being more of a traditional story commissioner/producer like Phillip Hinchcliffe & JNT with other writers with a strong track record for taking care of business on the storytelling and scriptwriting duties? John Dorney and Jonathan Morris cropped up yesterday and have a solid (prolific, even) record of being able to deliver excellent Doctor Who that pleases us fans without being beholden to their predecessors. It should not matter one iota whether they have comparable experience writing for TV as that is where a script editor fits in. They should not therefore be under that kind of executive pressure, working purely as a creative force. It's starting to look pretty practical, isn't it? I'm hoping that whoever is set to come next will look into that split as an option. Production is tough at the best of times, but when you combine that with being creatively responsible for every single story from the pitch to the final script, I'm not surprised people burn out. I think in that position, I'd look at it in a Venn diagram of three. The producer in one, the script editor in the other, and a shortlist of rescue writers. Eleventh-hour authors you can call up and say, "Production's gone sideways. Border's closed and the writer's stuck overseas... Looked promising, but I need a script and I need it now. Can you give us something to put into production via the script editor at extremely short notice, using the new criteria of [X], [Y] and [Z]?" It would definitely work, as would bringing in some scriptwriters from BF. There are many different shows within a similar genre to Who now on streaming services & I think the main thing is a regular release schedule, budget is important but tbh I have never watched Who & compared the fx to shows like The Mandalorian (although I think if that technology was available to Who it would open up the show & maybe speed up the recording process with photorealistic artificial sets) it is all about story & character for me.
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Post by doctorkernow on Jul 30, 2021 9:33:23 GMT
Hello again Doctor Who is a difficult and unusual show to write and produce. You don't have the budget of Netflix or other American tv giants and that's part of its appeal. The key element has to be the writing. The programme is a unique story-telling machine that can support almost any genre, any location in space and any point in time. The 50 minute episode format, where the only familiar aspect is the Doctor, companion and TARDIS is a challenge for any writer. Not to mention the 'have they done this before' question.
And then you have those pesky fans over-analysing every little word in the script. No wonder some see it as a poisoned chaice. Get it right and you are applauded to the heavens, get it wrong and you are torn apart by ravaging wolves. Having said all that, why not look to the Big Finish writers to extend the tv series Writer's room? Some of them have been writing Doctor Who scripts for years. A script for a visual medium is different and you don't have the limitless budget of the imagination but why not? You need a variety of different types of writers for Doctor Who. The writers of the classic series wrote for all kinds of tv. I really admire anyone who has written a Doctor Who script, even one I didn't like, because script-writing is such a difficult discipline. I write Doctor Who fan fiction and I know I'm never going to write a Doctor Who script. Writing an engaging Doctor Who story in prose is difficult enough and I'm very much in the enthusiastic amateur brigade. Sometimes, I think we go at the writers of stories without realising or appeciating how difficult it is to turn a blank screen into several scenes of workable television drama.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 30, 2021 9:53:58 GMT
Having said all that, why not look to the Big Finish writers to extend the tv series Writer's room? Some of them have been writing Doctor Who scripts for years. A script for a visual medium is different and you don't have the limitless budget of the imagination but why not? You need a variety of different types of writers for Doctor Who. The writers of the classic series wrote for all kinds of tv. Yes, lets not forget one of the best episodes of tv Who in recent years was Dalek by Robert Shearman, a revised & reworked version of some of the ideas in his BF story Jubilee.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 30, 2021 9:55:56 GMT
Going back to the discussion of writers & showrunners. Would it be unrealistic to go back to the Showrunner being more of a traditional story commissioner/producer like Phillip Hinchcliffe & JNT with other writers with a strong track record for taking care of business on the storytelling and scriptwriting duties? John Dorney and Jonathan Morris cropped up yesterday and have a solid (prolific, even) record of being able to deliver excellent Doctor Who that pleases us fans without being beholden to their predecessors. It should not matter one iota whether they have comparable experience writing for TV as that is where a script editor fits in. They should not therefore be under that kind of executive pressure, working purely as a creative force. It's starting to look pretty practical, isn't it? I'm hoping that whoever is set to come next will look into that split as an option. Production is tough at the best of times, but when you combine that with being creatively responsible for every single story from the pitch to the final script, I'm not surprised people burn out. I think in that position, I'd look at it in a Venn diagram of three. The producer in one, the script editor in the other, and a shortlist of rescue writers. Eleventh-hour authors you can call up and say, "Production's gone sideways. Border's closed and the writer's stuck overseas... Looked promising, but I need a script and I need it now. Can you give us something to put into production via the script editor at extremely short notice, using the new criteria of [X], [Y] and [Z]?"
I get the appeal, and there would be some things there worth looking at, but there's too much that would impede it working. Take it from an inside perspective, having direct tv experience does matter - many shows will not consider you, not even humour you, if you don't have a pre-existing body in the medium. Storytelling is storytelling, but each medium has to be approached on its terms and requires different considerations that even the most talented take time to adapt to: look up what happened to F. Scott Fitzgerald and Vladimir Nabokov, as two famous examples. That's not meant to be derogatory, just what a producer in a high pressure, never-enough-time environment like TV thinks.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 9:59:17 GMT
It's starting to look pretty practical, isn't it? I'm hoping that whoever is set to come next will look into that split as an option. Production is tough at the best of times, but when you combine that with being creatively responsible for every single story from the pitch to the final script, I'm not surprised people burn out. I think in that position, I'd look at it in a Venn diagram of three. The producer in one, the script editor in the other, and a shortlist of rescue writers. Eleventh-hour authors you can call up and say, "Production's gone sideways. Border's closed and the writer's stuck overseas... Looked promising, but I need a script and I need it now. Can you give us something to put into production via the script editor at extremely short notice, using the new criteria of [X], [Y] and [Z]?" It would definitely work, as would bringing in some scriptwriters from BF. There are many different shows within a similar genre to Who now on streaming services & I think the main thing is a regular release schedule, budget is important but tbh I have never watched Who & compared the fx to shows like The Mandalorian (although I think if that technology was available to Who it would open up the show & maybe speed up the recording process with photorealistic artificial sets) it is all about story & character for me. Hello again Doctor Who is a difficult and unusual show to write and produce. You don't have the budget of Netflix or other American tv giants and that's part of its appeal. The key element has to be the writing. The programme is a unique story-telling machine that can support almost any genre, any location in space and any point in time. The 50 minute episode format, where the only familiar aspect is the Doctor, companion and TARDIS is a challenge for any writer. Not to mention the 'have they done this before' question.
And then you have those pesky fans over-analysing every little word in the script. No wonder some see it as a poisoned chaice. Get it right and you are applauded to the heavens, get it wrong and you are torn apart by ravaging wolves. Having said all that, why not look to the Big Finish writers to extend the tv series Writer's room? Some of them have been writing Doctor Who scripts for years. A script for a visual medium is different and you don't have the limitless budget of the imagination but why not? You need a variety of different types of writers for Doctor Who. The writers of the classic series wrote for all kinds of tv. I really admire anyone who has written a Doctor Who script, even one I didn't like, because script-writing is such a difficult discipline. I write Doctor Who fan fiction and I know I'm never going to write a Doctor Who script. Writing an engaging Doctor Who story in prose is difficult enough and I'm very much in the enthusiastic amateur brigade. Sometimes, I think we go at the writers of stories without realising or appeciating how difficult it is to turn a blank screen into several scenes of workable television drama. Looking at the above two posts together: A staple of the revived series has been an effort to try and get the show feeling international. We've had filming in Croatia, the Canary Islands, Cape Town, Spain... Doubling for a number of locations across the world, but it's unclear whether or not that will still be viable going forward. Much the same way as the unrest of the Williams era or those first years of Jon Pertwee's run. My question is, therefore, what are the new Doctor Who production team going to do to compensate? One of the ways they could do it is definitely by bringing aboard some of our well-known and loved Big Finish writers. Audio relies much more on putting an image into a viewer's mind than strict television does. Every piece of dialogue contributes to a greater picture. You can have two characters locked in a sinking crate together and conjure up an entire city beyond them. If you're running a series trying to compete with television that has turned into cinema-going fare -- turn it sideways. Look at theatre and, most pertinently, look at modern radio plays. The purview of BF's writers.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jul 30, 2021 10:04:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 10:20:26 GMT
It's starting to look pretty practical, isn't it? I'm hoping that whoever is set to come next will look into that split as an option. Production is tough at the best of times, but when you combine that with being creatively responsible for every single story from the pitch to the final script, I'm not surprised people burn out. I think in that position, I'd look at it in a Venn diagram of three. The producer in one, the script editor in the other, and a shortlist of rescue writers. Eleventh-hour authors you can call up and say, "Production's gone sideways. Border's closed and the writer's stuck overseas... Looked promising, but I need a script and I need it now. Can you give us something to put into production via the script editor at extremely short notice, using the new criteria of [X], [Y] and [Z]?"
I get the appeal, and there would be some things there worth looking at, but there's too much that would impede it working. Take it from an inside perspective, having direct tv experience does matter - many shows will not consider you, not even humour you, if you don't have a pre-existing body in the medium. Storytelling is storytelling, but each medium has to be approached on its terms and requires different considerations that even the most talented take time to adapt to: look up what happened to F. Scott Fitzgerald and Vladimir Nabokov, as two famous examples. That's not meant to be derogatory, just what a producer in a high pressure, never-enough-time environment like TV thinks.
True, a writer who's spent their entire life writing prose books will probably struggle when they try to write their first screenplay and vice versa. It's not their medium. It's unlikely that the rota would be inundated with Big Finish writers, though. Looking at it practically, outside of generalised hopes, I could see one or two making the transition as part of a script editor's passion project. The "experimental" story of the season, so to speak. The split between producer and script editor would hopefully allow for greater leeway in trying things like that out (and first instincts would be to go look at audio writers who do have screen experience or, at least, experience across differing mediums).
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 30, 2021 10:27:42 GMT
Are we going to meet the next Doctor in season 13?
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 30, 2021 10:29:07 GMT
I get the appeal, and there would be some things there worth looking at, but there's too much that would impede it working. Take it from an inside perspective, having direct tv experience does matter - many shows will not consider you, not even humour you, if you don't have a pre-existing body in the medium. Storytelling is storytelling, but each medium has to be approached on its terms and requires different considerations that even the most talented take time to adapt to: look up what happened to F. Scott Fitzgerald and Vladimir Nabokov, as two famous examples. That's not meant to be derogatory, just what a producer in a high pressure, never-enough-time environment like TV thinks.
True, a writer who's spent their entire life writing prose books will probably struggle when they try to write their first screenplay and vice versa. It's not their medium. It's unlikely that the rota would be inundated with Big Finish writers, though. Looking at it practically, outside of generalised hopes, I could see one or two making the transition as part of a script editor's passion project. The "experimental" story of the season, so to speak. The split between producer and script editor would hopefully allow for greater leeway in trying things like that out (and first instincts would be to go look at audio writers who do have screen experience or, at least, experience across differing mediums). The role of script editor has changed alot since the classic series days: it hasn't been a creative role, certainly not one with the power to do that kind of experiment, in a very long time. It's firmly a production role, not development which would give you some breathing room to try someone newer out. It's also a diplomatic role - you not only have to give your thoughts on a script, you have to relay a whole bunch of other peoples' as well from within and above the show. Imagine then having to coach a writer new to the medium who is struggling on top of that: it's why the soaps have separate schemes to do that, rather than just inviting people directly. The s.editors just don't have the time to play a type of screenwriting coach on top of mini-producer, diplomat and negotiator. And that's not counting if the writer isn't choosing to be difficult and petty as well.
As a direct example, I was on a pre-school show a while back. Had a lot of newcomers with experience in different mediums: they weren't green. Many didn't make the cut to an actual episode, and that's for a ten minute kids show. Blow that up to an hour and yeah.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 30, 2021 10:31:52 GMT
Literally illustrating the other point, there are some "Lauded" Writers who wouldn't touch the Showrunner role with a Barge Pole! Regards mark687 Here's another out of the running.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 30, 2021 10:39:36 GMT
And one more, and a fun thread too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 10:42:29 GMT
True, a writer who's spent their entire life writing prose books will probably struggle when they try to write their first screenplay and vice versa. It's not their medium. It's unlikely that the rota would be inundated with Big Finish writers, though. Looking at it practically, outside of generalised hopes, I could see one or two making the transition as part of a script editor's passion project. The "experimental" story of the season, so to speak. The split between producer and script editor would hopefully allow for greater leeway in trying things like that out (and first instincts would be to go look at audio writers who do have screen experience or, at least, experience across differing mediums). The role of script editor has changed alot since the classic series days: it hasn't been a creative role, certainly not one with the power to do that kind of experiment, in a very long time. It's firmly a production role, not development which would give you some breathing room to try someone newer out. It's also a diplomatic role - you not only have to give your thoughts on a script, you have to relay a whole bunch of other peoples' as well from within and above the show. Imagine then having to coach a writer new to the medium who is struggling on top of that: it's why the soaps have separate schemes to do that, rather than just inviting people directly. The s.editors just don't have the time to play a type of screenwriting coach on top of mini-producer, diplomat and negotiator. And that's not counting if the writer isn't choosing to be difficult and petty as well.
As a direct example, I was on a pre-school show a while back. Had a lot of newcomers with experience in different mediums: they weren't green. Many didn't make the cut to an actual episode, and that's for a ten minute kids show. Blow that up to an hour and yeah.
No, I completely understand. I've a recent example about crossing mediums that I could talk about... under different circumstances. As it is, though, I can't say a word (but I can nod my head). It's a shame that creative aspect has been worn away with age. There was something to be said for being able to develop stories in that fashion. Is there an equivalent of that creative role somewhere else in the hierarchy or has it evaporated altogether?
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Post by doctorkernow on Jul 30, 2021 10:42:35 GMT
Hello again
I'm still laughing at the post from Sarah Phelps...
DOCTOR: Yeah, I could save the universe, again, but I'm really enjoying this book.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 30, 2021 13:39:58 GMT
The next series will be co-produced by an outside production company (e.g. Bad Wolf, Red, Sister Pictures) and invested into by another platform (e.g. HBO, Netflix, Amazon). So, a slighlty different direction here, but one that matters: when it comes to a streaming show, it's not just the odds of getting whoever you want on it, there's a much deeper problem. Streamers don't pay writers, indeed a lot of the talent, properly due to loopholes in existing agreements covering residuals/royalites.
You all may have seen the recent news of ScarJo taking on Disney for putting Black Widow on Plus and gipping her of owed money. Similar thing last year when HBOMax incurred the wrath of Nolan and others for doing the same thing. You might say 'oh well millionarie actress, boo hoo', but residuals are vital for a lot of the rank-and-file too, very much including writers. It can be a long time between produced gigs, and you need residuals to cover yourself (there was a story in Variety a few years back about how two netflix writers had to get teaching jobs because the after-money wasn't covering them) to be able to write without concerns. If they can hit a big star, how do you think everyone else is doing?
If you want your 'good writers' on Doctor Who, they need to be paid properly and streamers haven't proved that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 13:59:16 GMT
The role of script editor has changed alot since the classic series days: it hasn't been a creative role, certainly not one with the power to do that kind of experiment, in a very long time. It's firmly a production role, not development which would give you some breathing room to try someone newer out. It's also a diplomatic role - you not only have to give your thoughts on a script, you have to relay a whole bunch of other peoples' as well from within and above the show. Imagine then having to coach a writer new to the medium who is struggling on top of that: it's why the soaps have separate schemes to do that, rather than just inviting people directly. The s.editors just don't have the time to play a type of screenwriting coach on top of mini-producer, diplomat and negotiator. And that's not counting if the writer isn't choosing to be difficult and petty as well.
As a direct example, I was on a pre-school show a while back. Had a lot of newcomers with experience in different mediums: they weren't green. Many didn't make the cut to an actual episode, and that's for a ten minute kids show. Blow that up to an hour and yeah.
No, I completely understand. I've a recent example about crossing mediums that I could talk about... under different circumstances. As it is, though, I can't say a word (but I can nod my head). It's a shame that creative aspect has been worn away with age. There was something to be said for being able to develop stories in that fashion. Is there an equivalent of that creative role somewhere else in the hierarchy or has it evaporated altogether? I am genuinely interested in a response to the above if anyone can provide any insight. I can't discuss a client's contract for obvious reasons, but if we don't ask the questions, we don't learn.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 30, 2021 14:03:04 GMT
No, I completely understand. I've a recent example about crossing mediums that I could talk about... under different circumstances. As it is, though, I can't say a word (but I can nod my head). It's a shame that creative aspect has been worn away with age. There was something to be said for being able to develop stories in that fashion. Is there an equivalent of that creative role somewhere else in the hierarchy or has it evaporated altogether? I am genuinely interested in a response to the above if anyone can provide any insight. I can't discuss a client's contract for obvious reasons, but if we don't ask the questions, we don't learn. Oops didn't get back.
Right, so officially, there's no proper role outside of specific schemes, where they can allocate resources. From show to show, it really depends on who's producing and/or showrunning. Some may be more willing, or have more room, to really work with a writer (David Farr uses some newer guys on Hanna, for example. Peter Bowker kind of did this on Raplh and Katie, though there were proper screenwriters there as well) and get everything prepped, but it's not something one can rely on.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 14:10:17 GMT
I am genuinely interested in a response to the above if anyone can provide any insight. I can't discuss a client's contract for obvious reasons, but if we don't ask the questions, we don't learn. Oops didn't get back.
Right, so officially, there's no proper role outside of specific schemes. From to show, it really depends on who's producing and/or showrunning. Some may be more willing, or have more room, to really work with a writer (David Farr uses some newer guys on Hanna, gor example) and gte everything sorted, but it's not something one can rely on. It's cool, I got the impression you werre jetting around a bit between posts. Alright, interesting, so it's on a case-by-case basis. I'm pretty much in the same camp as Dorney, I'm most happy being part of a team of writers. In fact, I think a big conditional element of being selected for a script editor position or something similar would be whether or not I got to work with the authors. I have too much fun doing that as an professional amateur and amateur professional to really give it up.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 15:57:38 GMT
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