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Post by mark687 on Dec 3, 2021 14:26:35 GMT
So this set was about usual standard for these ongoing Eight storylines. Patience starts on an interesting note. The Judoon are here to serve a purpose, in that the story doesn’t really have time to establish a new monster so uses one we know already. Twisted Folklore also starts in thick of things, which is a bit jarring as Patience did the exact same thing. It used the split up TARDIS crew well. Snow was a nice bit of character work. I do kinda wish they had the guts to stick with the Liv/Tania material here, but not to be. What Just Happened? is a great concept and works well. Unfortunately it’s laboured with my least favourite Doctor Who character in some time. {Spoiler} I don’t care about Robin. I just don’t. He just whines and is performed as if he’s completely disinterested with bloody everything. He’s the least credible character to dictate anything, let alone an empire. Unfortunately he clearly still exists in the present day somehow (wasn’t he meant to be moving to Scotland? He moaned about it enough last set) so his fate on a desolate Earth probably won’t stick.
Surprisingly they actually carry out their “not everyone will make it home”. Unfortunately, they do this to the one character who has a gigantic safety net under them. Yeah sorry, no buying Andy’s fate here for a minute. Exactly I think the crux of the Arc is supposed to be risks to the future in ignoring people and their feelings but when all they do is aggravate how do you garner interest and sympathy in the Listener? Regards mark687
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 4, 2021 20:34:10 GMT
Wait, just going back in this thread.... why has there some conversations been deleted? Did I miss something?
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 4, 2021 20:42:14 GMT
Anyways. Started on Stranded. I finished the first half. I usually cherish in medias res stories that start in the middle and leave you hanging and guessing. I am fine with this. But they did two stories exactly like that right after the other. What? 1. This really breaks the flow of the story 2. This is really confusing 3. Those first two stories told... am I having a deja vu? But both of them remind me of other stories we recently had. One of them featuring River Song. Hint, hint.
As I said, normally I would like stories like these, but I feel in this case, they are doing the overall story and the setting a disservice. Not sure if you want to call it filler, but kind of is like that.
Otherwise. We get the usual great performances from the crew, noting to complain there.
But I feel that the detour they took here, what a strange choice of art direction.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2021 23:02:21 GMT
Yes!!!
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 5, 2021 1:57:29 GMT
Yes!!! Story of my life.
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Post by Kestrel on Dec 5, 2021 12:16:56 GMT
Upon further consideration, I think I'll postpone listening to Stranded 3 for a bit, so I don't have too many sets in-progress at once (I am this close to finishing Dark Eyes 4 and still haven't finished the back half of the latest War Master set). I'm fairly confident I'll enjoy this one, so hopefully we'll get some nice snow or rain this month. I love listening to audios while watching the rain or snow fall. Though I am a bit concerned by the ratings here. I can understand and respect that not everyone is going to like this range--I get it--but rating it 1? That's seems... pretty extreme. Like, that would place it among the worst of Big Finish's output--and while they've certainly put out some stinkers, they're pretty rare. And I can't imagine any story in this set, let alone all four cumulatively, being on the same level as Nekromanteia, Exile or Barbarians. I usually cherish in medias res stories that start in the middle and leave you hanging and guessing. Big Finish seems to do this an awful lot, and while it can sometimes work very well, I feel like just as often it's needlessly obfuscatory. Which, coupled with their tendency to end stories with big dramatic cliffhangers that are never properly resolved... can be pretty annoying. I especially don't like the in-media res intros in Stranded, because it feels like we're missing out on some really fun stories. Like the whole premise of this set? Stuck in London with a nonfunctional TARDIS, forcing the Doctor & co. to insert themselves into the lives of the people who just happen to be living in this one apartment building? That would be really fun to see--but instead we enter the story several months later, after everyone has already settled in to the new status quo. So this set was about usual standard for these ongoing Eight storylines. .... I don’t care about Robin. I just don’t. He just whines and is performed as if he’s completely disinterested with bloody everything. This is basically Anakin Skywalker syndrome, right? I know we (as a culture) tend to build up people like this as these great and terrible masters of destiny and whatnot, but that whole conceptualization plays into the propaganda these people, themselves, love to proliferate -- and as a result isn't very reflective of real life, where fascists, doctors and despots tend to be narrow-minded, deeply self-involved dweebs. I don't know that we're necessarily meant to care about Robin. I see him as very much an expy of the old "young ward" trope (EG Wesley Crusher, Adric, etc.) -- but with a more realistic take on that sort of character might grow up incredibly warped by the supernatural opportunities afforded by the genre. God knows Doctor Who has no shortage of generic "evil Masterminds" -- but it's pretty rare for us to even get hints at how they wound up that way. Speaking of which, you all have already listened to Forever Fallen, right? If you're reading this and haven't heard it yet, please correct that ASAP.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 5, 2021 12:25:11 GMT
Though I am a bit concerned by the ratings here. I can understand and respect that not everyone is going to like this range--I get it--but rating it 1? That's seems... pretty extreme. Like, that would place it among the worst of Big Finish's output--and while they've certainly put out some stinkers, they're pretty rare. And I can't imagine any story in this set, let alone all four cumulatively, being on the same level as Nekromanteia, Exile or Barbarians. From what I gathered, some people found the overarching plot and storyline and too many characters in Stranded tedious.Which is fine, everyone should like what they like. I also know that some people on here do not think Exile is that bad. I am NOT one of these people. For me, Exile is the very worst. I usually cherish in medias res stories that start in the middle and leave you hanging and guessing. Big Finish seems to do this an awful lot, and while it can sometimes work very well, I feel like just as often it's needlessly obfuscatory. Which, coupled with their tendency to end stories with big dramatic cliffhangers that are never properly resolved... can be pretty annoying. I especially don't like the in-media res intros in Stranded, because it feels like we're missing out on some really fun stories. Like the whole premise of this set? Stuck in London with a nonfunctional TARDIS, forcing the Doctor & co. to insert themselves into the lives of the people who just happen to be living in this one apartment building? That would be really fun to see--but instead we enter the story several months later, after everyone has already settled in to the new status quo. My issue was not the obfuscatory nature of these stories, I am fine with that.The issue I had was that we got two in a row. With pretty much the same narrative structure. After we had several of these in the recent past.It also gives me the feeling that Stranded is lacking a real sense of direction.And I agree with you, yes, I wish they would have stuck more to their "stuck on contemporary Earth". And told some more fish out of water and no aliens stories.But that might have been too much to ask for a Doctor Who franchise. I reserve an opinion on Robin for when I finish this set. But yeah, he is a bit whiny.
I hope I can finish with this today!
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Post by Whovitt on Dec 5, 2021 14:36:44 GMT
An alright box set on the whole, but most of Stranded has just been "alright" to me. I remember particularly enjoying The Long Way Round in the second set, but the first came out so long ago I barely remember anything about it. The Tanya plot line in Snow feels like a bit of a re-tread of what Helen did back in Doom Coalition (I believe it was in Absent Friends, but it was sooooo long ago I can't remember for sure), only this time a very strong point is made about how this future isn't fixed, so the "consequences" of seeing your own future kind of fall completely flat. And as for What Just Happened?... {Spoiler} I quite enjoyed the reverse chronology, but the whole Andy thing... Someone else mentioned it earlier, but he's literally the safest character to "kill off" in this whole range, and I'm including the Doctor here! Andy is a Torchwood character, so there's absolutely no way they're killing him off in a Doctor Who release. Like, at all. I have absolutely zero faith in this sticking. After all, the whole thrust of Stranded is preventing this apocalyptic future, so time will be rewritten back into the original timeline of human history and the events that killed Andy won't ever have happened anyway. If they'd killed Liv, Helen, or Tanya, I'd have genuinely believed that they might not be coming back, but Andy... I guess I'm just disappointed they didn't at least try to make us think this would stick.
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Post by theillusiveman on Dec 5, 2021 14:57:52 GMT
Though I am a bit concerned by the ratings here. I can understand and respect that not everyone is going to like this range--I get it--but rating it 1? That's seems... pretty extreme. Like, that would place it among the worst of Big Finish's output--and while they've certainly put out some stinkers, they're pretty rare. And I can't imagine any story in this set, let alone all four cumulatively, being on the same level as Nekromanteia, Exile or Barbarians. Wait did you mean The Barbarians and The Samurai? why would anyone have that ranked alongside Exile and Nekromanteia?
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 5, 2021 17:08:59 GMT
An alright box set on the whole, but most of Stranded has just been "alright" to me. I remember particularly enjoying The Long Way Round in the second set, but the first came out so long ago I barely remember anything about it. The Tanya plot line in Snow feels like a bit of a re-tread of what Helen did back in Doom Coalition (I believe it was in Absent Friends, but it was sooooo long ago I can't remember for sure), only this time a very strong point is made about how this future isn't fixed, so the "consequences" of seeing your own future kind of fall completely flat. And as for What Just Happened?... {Spoiler} I quite enjoyed the reverse chronology, but the whole Andy thing... Someone else mentioned it earlier, but he's literally the safest character to "kill off" in this whole range, and I'm including the Doctor here! Andy is a Torchwood character, so there's absolutely no way they're killing him off in a Doctor Who release. Like, at all. I have absolutely zero faith in this sticking. After all, the whole thrust of Stranded is preventing this apocalyptic future, so time will be rewritten back into the original timeline of human history and the events that killed Andy won't ever have happened anyway. If they'd killed Liv, Helen, or Tanya, I'd have genuinely believed that they might not be coming back, but Andy... I guess I'm just disappointed they didn't at least try to make us think this would stick. Well, concerning the spoiler- my thoughts exactly.
He will be like the Terminator "Hello, I'm back!"
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 5, 2021 17:15:35 GMT
So just finished this release. I am happy to say the pace and the direction picked up in the last two stories. I really liked stories 3 and 4. There is also now a more palpable sense of direction in the stories that drive the plot forward and let us understand what the whole series is about. The idea of the mysterious snow in "Snow" is great and put a wonderful picture up in my mind, especially while painting and looking outside my window with the light dusting of snow everywhere. Today was the perfect day to listen to this. I also like the emotional side of the story and the overarching theme of consequences and time travel. And the idea and execution of "What just happened" was awesome. This is exactly the experimental type of stuff I expect of Doctor Who and I wish we would get more of. All in all, this box set gets a mixed review from me, with two starting stories that seemingly go nowhere, but at least the set picks up in the later half. As usual, very good performances and production values and although this was a remote lockdown recording, as McGann mentions in the extras, it comes together perfectly.
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Post by Kestrel on Dec 5, 2021 21:13:32 GMT
It'll be interesting to see how BF concludes everything in the next set. IMO Big Finish hasn't exactly been great concluding these boxset quadrilogies. Their best concluding set was probably Ravenous 4, but that set basically ignored the over-arcing plot to focus on something entirely different instead. We've got this story here, wrapped around Robin, and I'm not confident it's going to resolve cleanly, especially considering how little we seem to care for the character. But likewise I don't know if making him more sympathetic would work. I think, in general, Doctor Who tends to be pretty bad about creating dynamic antagonists. More often than not, they posses only the most generic of attributes: a lust for power or recognition. There's always that looming sense of, "and what then?" because they have no real goals in life: just power for power's sake. And that's just... never going to be interesting (sorry, Master). I'd hoped they might go in a different direction with Robin, but... it does not seem to be going that way, does it? Wait did you mean The Barbarians and The Samurai? why would anyone have that ranked alongside Exile and Nekromanteia? My thoughts are in the thread, I feel no great need to retread them here. Suffice it to say that while the writing may technically be better than, say, Exile, the themes of the story are equally awful. Like I said in the discussion thread, I'm done talking about it.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 5, 2021 21:54:05 GMT
I'd hoped they might go in a different direction with Robin, but... it does not seem to be going that way, does it? You are right, the conclusions of series have been a bit lackluster. And I agree, the finale of Ravenous was something pretty epic and very hard to beat.
As for Robin... I don't think I spoil anything when I am saying I am still not sure about how this is going to end up. You are right, as villains go, he is hardly top material. I would need to listen to the last story of this box set again to make up my mind, but at least they sowed a kernel of something interesting in there. Now it depends on how they use it and resolve it. This series really seems to be about actions and consequences and the impact of time travel on relationships and personal choices and decisions. They should really use that. But I am not sure it will help transforming Robin from a very whiny character into Darth Vader, to be honest.
Even with the sympathetic bits they throw out for us, it is very hard to route for this guy.
And even as an anti-villain (doing the right thing for all the wrong reasons), he is not earning any points.
I think you are on to something. It has been a long carried believe of mine that a story raises and falls with it's villain. If you have a charismatic villain, even if he has such boring motivations like the Master, it will be fun to follow. I like the Master. And this is also why Darth Vader works. But one of the reasons modern Star Wars has completely lost me is because of these utterly interchangeable forgettable villains.
I love my villains. This is also why I play the bad guys (well, bad-er, since there is no "good" faction, really) in Warhammer.
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Post by theillusiveman on Dec 6, 2021 6:54:02 GMT
Well Atleast we are on Boxset away from ending the stranded series Hopefully the November/ December 2022 Boxsets will be better and a Fresh start
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Post by shallacatop on Dec 8, 2021 11:29:55 GMT
I thought this was the very definition of average. It just coasts for four hours, going through the motions, except it doesn't really seem to have any goals in mind. The Doctor is quippy, Liv and Tania fall out over silly things and then reconcile at the end, the character that dies is the one that has the heaviest plot armour aside from the Doctor and then we get the obligatory unconventional story at the end. The reverse chronology concept is always a good one, but it's just not terribly interesting in What Just Happened? and feels as though it uses the concept to try and disguise that! And what is the point of Robin? He's irritating through and through.
Fundamentally I'm at the point with Stranded where I'm just not interested. I don't really care what's happening, never mind why it's happening. The first set was strong and such a breath of fresh air for such a long running TARDIS team. I was fatigued and then Stranded 1 shows potential and now I'm back to wishing for a fresh start. It could all miraculously come together in the final volume, but I don't think it'll alter having to endure an overall dull middle act that seemingly doesn't know what it wants to do.
I just wish Stranded stuck with the more mundane and unique to Who vibe of the first set. Perhaps in hindsight the time jumps in that hampered what was to come. The staggered release schedule certainly hasn't helped, especially when we've just had Dalek Universe.
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Post by elkawho on Dec 8, 2021 19:15:24 GMT
I had to sit with this one for a bit to get my thoughts together, and I have decided that I really like it. This is the most experimental that BF has been with the Eighth Doctor in a long time. I like these quieter stories, as well as the attempts to find new ways to tell these stories. I don't find Robin all that annoying, at least not more annoying than other antagonists we've had over the years in the MR or EDAs, etc. And while I'm a big fan of the sci fi elements of DW, I do enjoy the character focused stories of this arc. I'm not sure the backwards story holds together as well as it should, but I had a ball listening to it and am looking forward to going back and hearing it again.
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Post by masterdoctor on Dec 8, 2021 20:30:27 GMT
A solid 4 from me. Patience and Snow really stood out, but all four eps were well worth listening to. Excited to see how it wraps up, though I will be sad if Liv and Helen might soon leave the Tardis.
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Post by IndieMacUser on Dec 9, 2021 19:47:04 GMT
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Post by chopper on Dec 20, 2021 17:38:44 GMT
9.5/10? I'm really going to have another listen of this as I had it around 7/10. Really thought the format for What Just Happened was disguising a semi-dull story. But maybe the dullness was part of it - how the rise of fascism comes from the dullest areas.
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Post by coffeeaddict on Dec 21, 2021 1:02:12 GMT
On par with the rest of the series - completely Meh.. I have zero interest in the last part of this series, it is one of the most boring sets I have encountered.
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