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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 1, 2021 8:22:31 GMT
Okay, fuller thoughts: Chibnall promised scope and a new story structure, and well, he delivered it. So much of how Halloween Apocalypse will stand depends on the next five, but as a setup goes, it's fine. Maybe a little too direct and blunt on establishing threads more on the potential mystery than with characters we get to have some understanding of (Claire, Williamson, Azure) as people first. Great as the Angel sequence was, it felt the most inorganic of the threads.
It is a meaty episode, exposition all over the place (though while not ideal, at least has more justification than past outings. Except Yaz's 'trick or treat', that was super contrived) and does keep throwing twists at you. Much of a halloween ep? Not really (I wonder if an older draft did have some Lupari land and people thought they were costumes) but if you want a ride, you got it. Production values were tremendous - CG's never looked better and the space scenes looked really strong, and for a TV budget, so did the pre-titles escape. Magnus Stone is to be commended here for the job done under the circumstances (though there is still some giveaway of when this is shot - Liverpool's streets can't help but feel a bit too barren and quiet) and he has a better handle on this compared to Spyfall.
As for new guy Dan, I like him - John's got an easy likeability to him, he's warm but spunky and I like we were introduced to Dan's situation very environmentally - the food bank, his house, it's a pretty realistic portrayal of poverty in the modern UK. Not cartoony rags or a place stunk up with cigarettes and booze - just sparse and day-to-day. Karvanista - yeah, a very Douglas Adams kind of alien and the performance plays on those lines. Does come with the usual 'where were they when x happened if they're meant to have that bond' that comes with Earth Protector aliens, but I suspect Chib is relying on everything else's momentum to push questions like that aside. Swarm - not much to say, though Spurell is clearly having fun with the grandiosity.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 1, 2021 8:29:36 GMT
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Nov 1, 2021 8:29:55 GMT
It's on ABC iView here in Australia- I just watched the opening intro and the credits with my boy. We will watch the rest tonight once he is asleep in bed.
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Post by Timelord007 on Nov 1, 2021 9:24:24 GMT
Loved it....
A intriguing action packed mysterious opener that sets up this 6 part epic.
Jodie was awesome & delivered a great performance mixing humour, emotion & drama.
Yaz was written far better i thought who felt sidelined in the previous 2 seasons due to a overcrowded Tardis & John Bishop as Dan was such a likeable selfless character he'll make a great addition to the Tardis team.
Is it just me or did i sense Fenric vibes, playing the game, Chess? Hmmm.
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Post by sherlock on Nov 1, 2021 9:54:52 GMT
Viewing figures for those who care about such things-
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Post by mark687 on Nov 1, 2021 9:59:13 GMT
Viewing figures for those who care about such things- Not Bad as virtually all of Northern UK couldn't see it "Live" due to not having a Main TV Transmitter at the moment. Regards mark687
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 1, 2021 13:10:38 GMT
Loved it! As we have seen in series 12, Chibnall is great at setting up plots and presenting us with great mysteries. I am not so fond of the resolutions of these, however, (as I do not care for the timeless children) but credit where credit is due. This was an amazing setup. I already fell in love with the pre-credit scene and it just got better from there. And I loved the Samurai Wookie Space Dogs. What an awesome costume, was already thinking about getting a Furry suit and a mock Samurai armour for cosplay (if it was not so terribly expensive).
But that would be a costume to turn some heads at conventions! I also think these new scary grim dark Sontarans look amazing, and actually look like a threat. I also loved that Dan Starkey is back on board, in the new Sontaran outfit no less.
What else is there to say? I said it before, but I adore the Chibnall era for the stunning mood lighting. For me, this is the best and memorable part of this era. It is gorgeous, immediately sets the mood and amazes me each time.
Visually, this is the best looking era of Doctor Who.
So yes, we are off to a good start. I am kind of sure I won't like the resolution (although I have not given up hope), but for now, I am happy.
And now I would like to start a bit of a content discussion. Since the spoiler tags are a bit of a pain on this forum, please excuse if this looks a bit of a mess, but I think spoiler tags are best for this.
So, what do you all think about the setup? What do you think of the big bad?
{Spoiler}
I am pretty sure these are supposed to be Elder Gods- a good choice, since we have not see a lot of them, so they are still fresh and not overused. Personally, I am not too fond of them, and I might be one of the few people left cold by Fenric, but better than to go with Daleks again. I am VERY tired of Daleks. But this setup of the villains having a secret and unknown backstory with the Doctor- of course this links back with the Timeless Children arc. Yes, not too fond of that, but what I hear there is a promise we might see Jo Martin again! Hopefully she is the Doctor who had this backstory and we get to see some flashbacks! Oh, pretty please? {Spoiler}
The use of the Angels as silent assassins, who do the bidding of a greater power, is also a great use for them- they just never appeared as creatures who had much of a command structure and a solitary mercenary life suits them.
{Spoiler} Great to see a new race, the oath sworn canine protectors of humanity in their Wookie Samurai outfit. This is a big universe, and there is space for so many more races, I am always happy to see new faces. Especially such good looking ones. They take a lot of the Wookie vibe and tropes and run with it, and the grumpy Fantasy Dwarf attitude makes them even more adorable.
{Spoiler} And then the new companion... hmm. Another contemporary human down on his luck. Why does this sound familiar? He is likeable enough, and I actually met people like that (voluntary unassociated guides to museums and zoos), so he fits the role of character the audience identifies with. Still, as far as companions go, this is beginning to feel a bit stale to me. {Spoiler} And then there is the relationship between the Doctor and Yaz- So there is still a trust and honesty issue between the two, and some of their arguments remind me a bit of the more abrasive relationships between Doctor/ companions in Classic Who. This relationship somehow feels a bit forced and unhappy for me. Might just be me, but this might set up a tragic departure? {Spoiler}
As for how the story is set up. Is it just me or did I have a deja vu? Somehow, this reminded me of the "universe is ending/ imploding" we got in Series 6. As in series 6, it had a strange and confusing set-up and the universe as we knew it was swallowed up. I wonder how much the story will adhere/ diverge from this storyline and if we end up with something similar or quite different.
So, these were my thoughts.
I would love to see some discussion and different views.
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Post by stcoop on Nov 1, 2021 13:13:06 GMT
With lots of people out on Halloween night it'll be interesting to see what the total figure ends up as. The big question will be, does the highly serialsed nature (much more than I was expecting TBH) put people off or keep them watching?
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 1, 2021 13:16:13 GMT
Totally agree with you, the visuals and the costumes are stunning, and very well thought out.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 1, 2021 13:18:35 GMT
With lots of people out on Halloween night it'll be interesting to see what the total figure ends up as. The big question will be, does the highly serialsed nature (much more than I was expecting TBH) put people off or keep them watching? Since this seem to be how many shows are done at the moment (Star Trek, Marvel) I think it will work out in their favour. This might be what people expect at the moment, and a longer story will give all the characters and the plot a lot more time to breathe. I personally enjoyed it and look forward to the next episode.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 1, 2021 13:36:28 GMT
With lots of people out on Halloween night it'll be interesting to see what the total figure ends up as. The big question will be, does the highly serialsed nature (much more than I was expecting TBH) put people off or keep them watching? I think it will be fine, Line of Duty was the UK’s most-watched TV drama of the 21st century & that was a serialised format.
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Post by shallacatop on Nov 1, 2021 14:15:00 GMT
Maybe a little too direct and blunt on establishing threads more on the potential mystery than with characters we get to have some understanding of (Claire, Williamson, Azure) as people first. Great as the Angel sequence was, it felt the most inorganic of the threads. I think that’s a great point about the Angels subplot / sequence. It’s what stands out the most in the episode as it doesn’t really link to anything yet. Everything else, whilst not wholly developed at this stage, does come back round to the main story. It’s not a big issue, I really admire that they’ve gone for one big story and not stuff that can stand in its own right, but the Angels piece does stick out currently. Can’t wait to see how it pans out.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 1, 2021 14:18:05 GMT
Maybe a little too direct and blunt on establishing threads more on the potential mystery than with characters we get to have some understanding of (Claire, Williamson, Azure) as people first. Great as the Angel sequence was, it felt the most inorganic of the threads. I think that’s a great point about the Angels subplot / sequence. It’s what stands out the most in the episode as it doesn’t really link to anything yet. Everything else, whilst not wholly developed at this stage, does come back round to the main story. It’s not a big issue, I really admire that they’ve gone for one big story and not stuff that can stand in its own right, but the Angels piece does stick out currently. Can’t wait to see how it pans out. And yet for me it was one of the best bits,. Regards mark687
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Post by shallacatop on Nov 1, 2021 14:33:18 GMT
I think that’s a great point about the Angels subplot / sequence. It’s what stands out the most in the episode as it doesn’t really link to anything yet. Everything else, whilst not wholly developed at this stage, does come back round to the main story. It’s not a big issue, I really admire that they’ve gone for one big story and not stuff that can stand in its own right, but the Angels piece does stick out currently. Can’t wait to see how it pans out. And yet for me it was one of the best bits,. Regards mark687 Oh absolutely, it was very well done! It was one of my highlights too, just feels disconnected currently until we get more information about Claire, why the Angels are there, what are they doing, etc. An extended teaser, if you will. The Sontaran appearance wasn’t dissimilar in its approach, but it did link to the Flux and we see from the teaser they’re in next week’s episode.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Nov 1, 2021 14:42:18 GMT
Karvanista being a surviving Division operative...so the Division is STILL around (kind of) and not truly ancient history? Leading as usual to further questions. Division operatives weren't all Gallifreyan it seems, which is a curiosity in itself. Unless like Lee with the Fugitive Doctor each Gallifreyan was paired with a non-Gallifreyan. That's a bit of a stretch though, considering Gallifrey's supposed isolationist policy for aeons. Lots of unravelling to do that may not end with the end of 13's tenure. Spruell (to me at least) giving off heavy Paul Bettany playing evil vibes.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 1, 2021 14:46:45 GMT
I think that’s a great point about the Angels subplot / sequence. It’s what stands out the most in the episode as it doesn’t really link to anything yet. Everything else, whilst not wholly developed at this stage, does come back round to the main story. It’s not a big issue, I really admire that they’ve gone for one big story and not stuff that can stand in its own right, but the Angels piece does stick out currently. Can’t wait to see how it pans out. And yet for me it was one of the best bits,. Regards mark687 Make no mistake, I agree it was a great bit (probably on balance better than some of the latter days uses we got of the Angels in the last era) - I just wish it was better integrated. Maybe a slightly bigger crumb from Chibbs.
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Post by sherlock on Nov 1, 2021 14:56:50 GMT
Karvanista being a surviving Division operative...so the Division is STILL around (kind of) and not truly ancient history? Leading as usual to further questions. Division operatives weren't all Gallifreyan it seems, which is a curiosity in itself. Unless like Lee with the Fugitive Doctor each Gallifreyan was paired with a non-Gallifreyan. That's a bit of a stretch though, considering Gallifrey's supposed isolationist policy for aeons. Lots of unravelling to do that may not end with the end of 13's tenure. Spruell (to me at least) giving off heavy Paul Bettany playing evil vibes. Well can a secret time travelling organisation ever really go away?
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 1, 2021 15:00:46 GMT
Karvanista being a surviving Division operative...so the Division is STILL around (kind of) and not truly ancient history? Leading as usual to further questions. Division operatives weren't all Gallifreyan it seems, which is a curiosity in itself. Unless like Lee with the Fugitive Doctor each Gallifreyan was paired with a non-Gallifreyan. That's a bit of a stretch though, considering Gallifrey's supposed isolationist policy for aeons. Lots of unravelling to do that may not end with the end of 13's tenure. Spruell (to me at least) giving off heavy Paul Bettany playing evil vibes. Well can a secret time travelling organisation ever really go away? No. Remember Gat in Fugitive of the Judoon, she was a Division agent in 'our' present but not realising it.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,661
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 1, 2021 15:26:38 GMT
Just watched it. I didn’t have trouble following all the different characters: they were introduced carefully and given a decent story to tell.
It was a beautiful looking episode with a great sense of a much larger world in the background. What I might expect from something titled “Chapter 1.”
And yes, I did wonder at the mattress in the console room, too.
Really looking forward to Chapter 2.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 1, 2021 15:32:23 GMT
Points for Diane - they let her be a person and treat her disability as just part of the world. It's refreshingly unsaccaharine. Sadly, you've probably also guessed the reaction from some quarters.
They never drew attention to Diane's disability, and that's still 'too much' for some. Even The Telegraph had a pop at it.
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