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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 29, 2021 20:20:37 GMT
not his fault? lol he is the head producer and writer he should have considered that his “ideas” would cause a huge backlash in the fandom and lol blaming “‘money hungry grifters” for poisoning the fandom sounds like massive cope and gaslighting I'm sorry, Chibnall's job is not to placate a gigantic global fandom, which is an impossible task (as said, look at Holmes. Look at any era frankly - every single one has detractors and defenders, so good luck getting consensus with a community as big and fragmented as ours.) and is the most disingenuous mindset to media. His job is the same as every writer in this franchise - to tell the story he believes he can tell best - with that comes risks and that's inevitable. Look here alone - casuality, davy and star all said they liked it. You calling them fake fans? Do they not count all of a sudden, because they don't agree with you?
And I'm not taking up more space with the latter point. Just go to the 'Extremist Fans' thread for all the proof you need of how a cottage industry has invaded fandoms.
Agree 200%. I wonder why some fans who clearly dislike this era continue to watch & post week after week in the threads? If you don't like something that's fine but why put yourself through it every 7 days?
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Post by agentten on Nov 29, 2021 22:06:55 GMT
Lots of plot in this week's episode. That's to be expected as the show's setting up the final episode of Flux. Once again, I absolutely loved it. Proper Doctor Who through and through. My thoughts:
- Brilliant to see Kate and UNIT again. I understand why they've been absent, the story reasons make sense, but I missed them and it was lovely to have Kate back in fine form, telling off a villain as he reveals his master plan.
- On a related note, it was fun hearing a bit of the Brig in passing as we traveled through the early years of UNIT.
- Yaz, Dan and the Professor working out how to save the planet was a lot of fun. It was fast paced and had a little bit of Indiana Jones to flavor it. I would absolutely buy a Big Finish spin off set during those adventures. Given that they apparently spent three years doing it, it seems like a perfect Big Finish gap to fill.
- I loved the Doctor proving to Tecteun who she really is by resisting the bait and being willing to give up on ever getting her memories back so that she can save the universe she swore to protect.
- Whittaker has been so good in this series that she's actively climbing my ranking of favorite Doctors. I don't know where she'll wind up, but she's really hit her stride.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 29, 2021 22:24:10 GMT
Two things became apparent for me after watching the episode. I enjoyed this. I liked the fractured storytelling, I like the pace, I like the location jumps, I liked the scenes with UNIT and the alien infiltrator (is he related to Colony Sarff by the way?), I like all the puzzle pieces and the mystery and the guessing and I enjoy the feeling of a story washing over me without much understanding what is going on. I like the dark tone. I liked the visuals. I liked the characters. I love the professor, and the lunatic hermit was hilarious, even if VERY cliche. However. If Flux had been the first time I had come into contact with Doctor Who, without having been a fan, honestly, I would NOT have joined the crowd. I would not have followed. The plot is too involved, it needs quite a bit of backstory and understanding to know what is even going on and why things are happening and what the meaning is. Honestly, this is confusing enough for a fan, but if I had been a new person? I would have turned away. I am still not a fan of the Timeless Child. The whole multiverse stuff leaves me indifferent- I neither see the big deal nor do I see anything particularly new story wise. Parallel world and other universes we already had plenty. We will find out next week if all of this will come together for a meaningful finale or if it all falls apart.
EDIT- Plus, question, these transporter people. Are they basically similar to the living person TARDISes in the 8th Doctor novels? It just comes across as VERY similar.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Nov 30, 2021 6:39:36 GMT
EDIT- Plus, question, these transporter people. Are they basically similar to the living person TARDISes in the 8th Doctor novels? It just comes across as VERY similar.
The Passengers certainly feel very TARDIS-like. Not exactly like the humanoid TARDISes/Ships of the 8th Doctor War arc and Faction Paradox, which were much more human, but they feel like a prototype of the same concept. Possibly hijacked early TARDISes? Or older pre-Time Lord entities Rassilon, etc copied to make the TARDISes? (Perhaps the Doctor's TARDIS is really a Passenger that only thinks she's a Type 40 TARDIS because her memories were locked away... ) Or the Ravagers' own versions of TARDISes? Their own countermeasure to balance the battle with the early Time Lords/Division? Even if the show doesn't explicitly make a link, they definitely feel like they're at least parallel in some way.
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Nov 30, 2021 8:50:03 GMT
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Post by Tim Bradley on Nov 30, 2021 12:23:39 GMT
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 30, 2021 12:48:56 GMT
So, I think this is better at the 'lore/infodump episode' routine compared to HA or OUT - it's better paced, more is happening in each thread and there's more setpieces and reveals to break up potential monotony. There's quite a bit to like here - the Indiana Jones thread with the companions are fun (even if they, thus far, haven't amounted to much. Still, a reminder chemistry can go a long way. And Dan has action chops how about that), Flynn and Whittaker play off each other well and 13 has more agency and say here compared to, basically, the same shindig in TTC and the hologram scene was pretty adorable. Also good - shuts down the idea that the Timeless Child is any sort of reskin of Space Jesus - it's the exact opposite, making the Doctor unspecial. There's a lot of 'moments' here, be they fun, funny or scary, which does speak to the critical problem as well.
Stuff like the UNIT dating is not important to me. That was already screwed long before we came here, and lore isn't emotion or conflict. What this episode has confirmed, for me, is that Flux is built with the right ideas and components - they just need to be placed differently. Maybe in the original 10 ep version, they were and the condensation has had adverse effects. Nothing is really allowed to sink in enough - it jumps from place to place, never incoherently, but before scenes can really sink in and have their full impact. Tecteun is a major example - this should feel a lot more personal and emotional, yet it's played like any other villain scene. The Doctor is talking to, basically, her only known family and the woman responsible for setting her on this path - those darkly tender moments are when these shine, and in everything else they just feel hollow. It's indicative of a great, intimate story for the Doctor (dare I say, brilliant even) that's gotten slowly drowned out with this bigger issue of the Flux and the alien super-invasion we're setting up. Fast eye-candy's taken up the priority. Same deal with the Unit stuff - cute, but so what? It feels like it's too late to be appearing now - why couldn't it have been seeded earlier? Or the Williamson stuff - yeah, some funny bits, but painfully underdeveloped - this tunnel reveal should've come earlier, why now at the end?
It comes down to allocation - Flux has had odd priorities in structure and information choices, and it makes me anxious for Vanquishers.
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Post by sherlock on Nov 30, 2021 13:08:04 GMT
So, I think this is better at the 'lore/infodump episode' routine compared to HA or OUT - it's better paced, more is happening in each thread and there's more setpieces and reveals to break up potential monotony. There's quite a bit to like here - the Indiana Jones thread with the companions are fun (even if thye, thus far, haven't amounted to much. Still, a reminder chemistry can go a long way. And Dan has action chops how about that), Flynn and Whittaker play off each other well and 13 has more agency and say here comapred to, basically, the same shindig in TTC and the hologram scene was pretty adorable. Also good - shuts down the idea that the Timeless Child is any sort of reskin of Space Jesus - it's the exact opposite, making the Doctor unspecial. There's a lot of 'moments' here, be they fun, funny or scary, which does speak to the critical problem as well. Stuff like the UNIT dating is not important to me. That was already screwed long before we came here, and lore isn't emotion or conflict. What this episode has confirmed, for me, is that Flux is built with the right ideas and components - they just need to be placed differently. Maybe in the original 10 ep version, they were and the condensation has had adverse effects. Nothing is really allowed to sink in enough - it jumps from palce to place, never incoherently, but before scenes can really sink in and have their full impact. Tecteun is a major example - this should feel a lot more personal and emotional, yet it's played like any other villain scene. The Doctor is talking to, basically, her only known family and the woman responsible for setting her on this path - those darkly tender moments are when these shine, and in everything else they just feel hollow. It's indicative of a great, intimate story for the Doctor (dare I say, brilliant even) that's gotten slowly drowned out with this bigger issue of the Flux and the alien super-invasion we're setting up. Fast eye-candy's taken up the priority. Same deal with the Unit stuff - cute, but so what? It feels like it's too late to be appearing now - why couldn't it have been seeded earlier? Or the Williamson stuff - yeah, some funny bits, but painfully underdeveloped - this tunnel reveal should've come earlier, why now at the end? It comes down to allocation - Flux has had odd priorities in structure and information choices, and it makes me anxious for Vanquishers. I think more than any other episode of Flux, this chapter felt like multiple potential stories smashed together. A UNIT focused chapter combined with a Doctor-lite “trapped in the past” story, with the Doctor vs Tecteun thrown in cos we need to get that done before the finale. The Williamson Tunnels connecting through history is such a ripe idea, it’s a tragedy we only got two scenes in them before the Sontarans burst in. The Indiana Jones stuff was fun but as it’s such a dead-end (they obtain the date of the big battle, which they get no opportunity to use in any way before said battle begins at the cliffhanger, and leave a message which Karvanista can’t actually act on) that it maybe should’ve been ruthlessly edited down to get to the Tunnels sooner. The UNIT stuff is just so disconnected it’s bizarre. The Serpent worked as a one-note dictator for Vinder’s backstory, but there’s not really enough to him to get invested. Here he just repeats the same scene twice (learning about UNIT a bit and then killing someone getting in his way) until Kate turns up. No sense of what his motivations are for doing all of this (I guess he just wants power again?). I get the sense we’re supposed to be invested purely because we recognise UNIT but UNIT is just an organisation, a badge for characters to wear, not a character in itself. So it’s corruption kinda feels a bit hollow without someone to react to it, and when Kate finally does turn up to provide that, it’s a brief two scenes and then onto the next thing.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 30, 2021 13:22:06 GMT
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Post by sherlock on Nov 30, 2021 15:10:26 GMT
Seems they were some cheeky references in background of UNIT...
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Post by bonehead on Nov 30, 2021 22:47:48 GMT
I finally got round to seeing this and am still absolutely loving 'Flux' - the scale, the sprawling nature of the plot, the characters, the surprises, the humour, the creepiness. On the latter point, being scared is what originally drew me to Doctor Who; not because of its traditionally unsettling qualities, but it's weirdness - and 'Flux' is overwhelmingly weird. That's what I would have loved as a kid, and that is what I love about this series. If I'm honest, in the recent past, I would watch occasional episodes to the end because it was Doctor Who. This I would watch even if it wasn't Doctor Who.
Or in other words, I love this journey Mr Chibnall is taking me on. I don't know where it is heading even now, with the little morsels of explanation this episode offers - I don't even mind if I don't like the destination, because the journey is so very entertaining.
I'm slightly sad we probably aren't going to get to know more about Yaz as I think we were lead to believe, but maybe we will.
Yes, this episode was a series of conversations. It might even be the weakest episode so far. But what a beautifully entertaining weakest episode it is. Spacious, unreassuring, still bigger than the Doctor and as always, powerfully scored by Segun Akinola.
No complaints here.
"Everything is in place."
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Post by elkawho on Dec 1, 2021 4:50:12 GMT
First, regarding a Doctor Who "multiverse". I'm not bothered at all. It has already been done. Pete's World, anyone? And more. It's just that no one ever called it a multiverse until Marvel came along.
I'm another one who things the time tunnel idea is a fantastic one and was pretty much wasted in this episode. But I still loved the episode as a whole. (I loved the Tibetan monk. I know a lot of people didn't, but I appreciated the humor. Humor in this era often misses it's mark, but this really worked for me.)
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 1, 2021 8:42:49 GMT
Rewatched episode & had a Columbo moment it finally called out to me Bel & Vinder are the Doctor's biological parents.
Bet if this true Gallifrey Guardian will go into meltdown.
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Post by stcoop on Dec 1, 2021 12:34:35 GMT
Rewatched episode & had a Columbo moment it finally called out to me Bel & Vinder are the Doctor's biological parents.
I'm guessing it won't be explicitly stated but yeah it's pretty obvious at this point.
Funnily enough back when his casting was announced during the summer Jacob Anderson mentioned that Vinder had two hearts, a fact that still hasn't been mentioned on screen yet.
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Post by mark687 on Dec 1, 2021 13:08:32 GMT
Rewatched episode & had a Columbo moment it finally called out to me Bel & Vinder are the Doctor's biological parents. Bet if this true Gallifrey Guardian will go into meltdown. If true why is he aware of but wasn't sure he was in a TARDIS at the end of EP 3 and why was no one else in the narrative bothered about them at all apart from Vinder Reporting the Grand Serpent to the already rigged System and this EP when Dan's Dog suddenly realizing there's a ship already missing from the Shield, stolen somehow by Bel, so he moves his, which makes the Shield breach-able? I've a hunch it may be correct, but its such a low stakes and potentially plot-hole dug way to get there. Regards mark687
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Dec 1, 2021 13:39:46 GMT
Rewatched episode & had a Columbo moment it finally called out to me Bel & Vinder are the Doctor's biological parents. Bet if this true Gallifrey Guardian will go into meltdown. If true why is he aware of but wasn't sure he was in a TARDIS at the end of EP 3 and why was no one else in the narrative bothered about them at all apart from Vinder Reporting the Grand Serpent to the already rigged System and this EP when Dan's Dog suddenly realizing there's a ship already missing from the Shield, stolen somehow by Bel, so he moves his, which makes the Shield breach-able? I've a hunch it may be correct, but its such a low stakes and potentially plot-hole dug way to get there. Regards mark687 Yep I cannot see what it would add to things. & after Doctor Who chose to save the universe rather than discover her past I don't think we will see this revelation.
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Post by bonehead on Dec 1, 2021 15:02:01 GMT
Rewatched episode & had a Columbo moment it finally called out to me Bel & Vinder are the Doctor's biological parents. Bet if this true Gallifrey Guardian will go into meltdown. If true why is he aware of but wasn't sure he was in a TARDIS at the end of EP 3 and why was no one else in the narrative bothered about them at all apart from Vinder Reporting the Grand Serpent to the already rigged System and this EP when Dan's Dog suddenly realizing there's a ship already missing from the Shield, stolen somehow by Bel, so he moves his, which makes the Shield breach-able? I've a hunch it may be correct, but its such a low stakes and potentially plot-hole dug way to get there. Regards mark687 I'd love to think this is a case of Chris Chibnall encouraging us to believe something that he then reveals not to be the case. I'd love to think that. The Doctor doesn't need to have parents that we know about, and the show is better and more involving when it's not about the Doctor. So far, I have loved every passing second of 'Flux'. If this reveal happens, then I'll have still loved the journey, if not the destination. I'm still clinging onto the belief that it's a red herring.
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Post by stcoop on Dec 1, 2021 15:46:28 GMT
If the story ends with the pair trapped in / deciding to explore the new universe (which we now know is where the Doctor comes from) that would leave it up to people to decide for themselves what to believe.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Dec 1, 2021 17:23:11 GMT
If the story ends with the pair trapped in / deciding to explore the new universe ( which we now know is where the Doctor comes from) that would leave it up to people to decide for themselves what to believe. But we don't know that for certain, Tecteun said "The next universe holds the other end of the wormhole where I found you. That universe may be where you're from". We have no real evidence that this is the case, in fact if I was Tecteun & was trying to bring the Doctor over to my side it would be exactly what I would say to them as an enticement.
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 2, 2021 2:28:44 GMT
The Doctor will use the fob watch save the universe & sacrifice past lives memories.
It'll be "it doesn't matter who i was but who i am now, I'm the Doctor i save people, galaxys & I'm saving this universe".
It's just what i think may happen, showing the fob watch is seemingly is foreshadowing something.
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