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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2021 14:18:56 GMT
Like last week, I'll share David Brown's comments in the Radio Times Sunday Choices - "A nagging feeling persists that showrunner Chris Chibnall made an error of judgement in answering the question, "Doctor Who?" All these revelations about the Division and the Doctor's pre-William Harnell incarnations have robbed the show's original set-up of much of its mystery. Still, at least the monsters can be relied upon to provide a distraction, and they're very much in control as we reach the end of this Flux mini-series. Obviously, there will be some explosive righting of wrongs, as there's a further episode over the festive season, but let's just hope there's some emotional resonance, too." And let me add a personal note - if there is a giant red throbbing reset button at the end of this, the likes of which puts Star Trek: Voyager's 'Year of Hell' to utter shame, I will be both delighted and furious. Delighted that nearly 60 years of tentatively grown background for the Doctor doesn't get jammed into the shredder then cast to the winds, and furious that the show runner didn't have the courage of his convictions to follow through and complete what he started. Unless, of course, it was the crossing of the Boundary that switched our 'real' Doctor Who for this alternate 'Division-renegade immortal with infinite regenerations' version of the show... Why am I rationalising this rubbish? Where's that pile of ironing? I want to listen to the new Mark Steel's in Town... Well that is quite a good summing up.... if you fancy doing my dishes too and taking my laundry out...you know to stop you rationalising 🤪
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Post by mark687 on Dec 4, 2021 17:08:27 GMT
As if things weren't complicated enough the official Doctor Who Facebook just replayed the young policeman bit from the Timeless Children implying that both it and The Master might return Tomorrow. Regards mark687
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Post by sherlock on Dec 5, 2021 12:52:13 GMT
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Post by mark687 on Dec 5, 2021 12:58:33 GMT
I hope it doesn't turn out to be "A Tale of Sound and Fury"
Regards
mark687
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Post by mark687 on Dec 5, 2021 19:23:09 GMT
So After All that Regards mark687
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 5, 2021 19:27:11 GMT
So, based on how this ends, anyone else get the feeling the watch will play a part in 13's death/regeneration? Like, it's probably showing up in the centennary, betting now.
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Post by mark687 on Dec 5, 2021 19:35:24 GMT
So, based on how this ends, anyone else get the feeling the watch will play a part in 13's death/regeneration? Well As the Doctor's asked the TARDIS to put it somewhere safe It could only be in a dire emergency to trigger it somehow. Regards mark687
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Post by Tim Bradley on Dec 5, 2021 19:37:01 GMT
Hello everyone! I'm guessing Timelord007's going to call it now that the Doctor doesn't open the fob watch to experience her lost memories.
Looking forward to 'Eve of the Daleks' next!
Tim
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Post by Tim Bradley on Dec 5, 2021 19:38:07 GMT
Also, Sacha Dhawan's Master coming back. I'm sure of it. Tim
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 19:38:26 GMT
Weakest of the season, sadly. Parts like the Serpent just didnt really need to be there. The Sontaran plan was old hat and Time gives its own version of "he will knock four times...". It tied up everythin it needed to but not in a very clever way. If it was the resolution to a two-parter then fine but as an event series? Did not stick the landing. Oh, and when I joked that I was sure CC would use Daleks for his third NY special out of 3...I wasnt tryin to inspire him! The Timeless Child arc may as well have been on ice as essentially by The Doc not opening the fob, we know as much as we did 18 months back. And did I miss somethin? Why was yer Serpent from Line Of Duty so obssessed with Kate Stewart? Overall I really, really loved 5/6ths of this but when the bit you mess up is the resolution...it takes away more than a bit of goodwil. We were left with nothin at the end to instill a sense han we are on a cliffhanger. The characters now...are the same as they were before the series by and large. Would want more from such a major event series. We have 3 eps left. If the New Year ep one is a trad romp not affectin the major arc, then 2 really, to resolve some major questions. CC, my man - you played a hell of a match but you missed that last minute penalty.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 19:42:48 GMT
So, based on how this ends, anyone else get the feeling the watch will play a part in 13's death/regeneration? Like, it's probably showing up in the centennary, betting now.
I dont think thats even up for debate - it was clearly indicating that the watch and The Master are to be involved in Jodie's death. The "no regeneration" part is the only ambiguous bit.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 5, 2021 19:46:27 GMT
What I said last week still applies - ''Flux is built with the right ideas and components - they just need to be placed differently. Nothing is really allowed to sink in enough - it jumps from place to place, never incoherently, but before scenes can really sink in and have their full impact.''As a spectacle, as simply the end of the Flux threat itself, it's fine. Felt Av Kolos was too small, or Children too slow - this is for you.
As another chapter, the penultimate possibly, of the bigger TC story, it's too barebones.
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Post by mark687 on Dec 5, 2021 19:51:54 GMT
What I said last week still applies - ''Flux is built with the right ideas and components - they just need to be placed differently. Nothing is really allowed to sink in enough - it jumps from place to place, never incoherently, but before scenes can really sink in and have their full impact.''As a spectacle, as simply the end of the Flux threat itself, it's fine. Felt Av Kolos was too small, or Children too slow - this is for you. As another chapter, the penultimate possibly, of the bigger TC story, it's too barebones. Yes the Season was very good but its a prime candidate for "This is how I'd've done it". Regards mark687
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Post by thelonecenturion on Dec 5, 2021 19:56:31 GMT
Not a bad finale, but one major problem - what happened to the universe? The Passenger absorbed the Flux, but that still leaves only Earth in the universe, right? The Flux had already destroyed everything else.
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Post by mark687 on Dec 5, 2021 19:57:43 GMT
Not a bad finale, but one major problem - what happened to the universe? The Passenger absorbed the Flux, but that still leaves only Earth in the universe, right? The Flux had already destroyed everything else. A large portion certainly. Regards mark687
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Post by shallacatop on Dec 5, 2021 19:58:22 GMT
I enjoyed it, but could see the flaws and bits where it didn’t quite stick the landing. The Diane, Vinder, Bel and the Grand Serpent pieces of Flux were thin on the ground to begin with, but amounted to absolutely nothing in The Vanquishers, meaning they could all be scrapped from the series with ease.
I thought dividing the Doctor between the three plots was clever and well done. Made a complete contrast to her being stuck in one room in The Timeless Children. I liked all of the Sontaran material too, drawing on what’s been established throughout the series, and feel they’ve been well served in Flux. I also thought that the reveal of Azure and Swarm’s motive was well done given it was done in an info dump, which has often been clunky throughout this era.
Loved the journey of Flux and had a great time. I think it just needs some refinement; scrap Diane, Vinder, Bel and the Grand Serpent, progress the story more in earlier episodes and devote some more time to the Division elements. I agree that we unfortunately aren’t any further forward than we were 18 months ago. Ultimately I think everything is there to make Flux truly special, it just needs a nip and tuck.
The whole thing has been absolutely gorgeous, though!
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Post by sherlock on Dec 5, 2021 20:15:16 GMT
Alrighty then, I have thoughts.
-The pacing and presentation was great. I was entertained. -Jodie Whittaker really earned her pay this week. The script is laden with explanations and complicated plans for her and she just bulldozed through it all. She carried this story. -Splitting the Doctor in three was a genius solution to a problem that shouldn’t have existed. Why could the companions and supporting characters not lead their threads without the Doctor there to instruct them? -Chibnall really likes Sontarans I guess. More power to them I guess, but I really don’t think this episode did anything with them War of the Sontarans hadn’t already. -Oh poor Karvanista. -Swarm and Azure as religious zealots was nice concept and Azure really got to show her teeth. Shame Swarm didn’t get to do all that much. And shame they didn’t really get a payoff. -What ultimately was the point of including Kate Stewart and the Grand Serpent? Cutting them would have made no difference. -Diane learnt a lot about Passenger whilst in there. Be nice if we had seen literally any of that. -So Chibnall’s done a Logopolis and wiped out a large swath of the cosmos that conveniently doesn’t include anywhere actually significant? I assume so as no reset button presented itself. -The Flux was antimatter? I thought Survivors said it was ‘compressing’ stuff? -RIP Jericho, you and Williamson were the best characters. -So Time is sentient (so Azure is right that her faith is correct then) and just kills it’s only two servants trying to set it free? And drops in Specials hints for a bit of foreboding. Here comes the Master then. -The Doctor’s found all the answers she wanted and doesn’t open it up. Not surprising.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 20:22:41 GMT
I enjoyed it. It stopped at just the right moments No Big reveal of The doctors past. No I big reveal of the Vinder child messiah lol. The Serpemt no big reveal. Swarm and Azure surely are planets...Azure being earth and Swarm being whatever planet Diane and Vinder were on😏 I liked it we are none the wiser as it should be 😂
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Dec 5, 2021 20:43:59 GMT
It worked. Not as well as I wanted it to but it worked. Now we get a breather at New Year and then the codas.
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Post by ollychops on Dec 5, 2021 20:52:51 GMT
The best of the Chibnall finales but... that's a low bar. That was far too messy and there were way too many elements, nothing really had time to breathe, and it didn't help that there were quite a few instances of repeating information as usual in this era. Diane, Vinder, Bel and the Grant Serpent could've just been scrapped from Flux altogether since they really didn't add much.
On the plus side, I thought the Sontarans were served well and I liked the 13 and Yaz scene at the end.
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