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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 21:38:06 GMT
I guess one of the questions would be when BF would introduce a new companion for 4? We know seasons 5 & 6 feature Romana II and series 7 sees the return of Leela. We are talking 2019 before a potential new companion would be introduced in the range. If there is the strongly rumored Hinchcliffe 2, I'd love to have him (and Marc Platt, I guess) see if they could come up with a new companion even if only for the boxset, or perhaps a two-story set again with a one-off companion in each.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 10, 2016 21:49:59 GMT
I guess one of the questions would be when BF would introduce a new companion for 4? We know seasons 5 & 6 feature Romana II and series 7 sees the return of Leela. We are talking 2019 before a potential new companion would be introduced in the range. If there is the strongly rumored Hinchcliffe 2, I'd love to have him (and Marc Platt, I guess) see if they could come up with a new companion even if only for the boxset, or perhaps a two-story set again with a one-off companion in each. I agree. That would be great. I was just pointing out that the 4th Doctor range would appear to be locked for the next three years. I know they record with Tom quite a ways out, so who nose?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 21:56:32 GMT
To be honest I just can't see a new companion for Tom happening. The range is very nostalgia heavy so I think they'll continue as-is as long as the three principals are willing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 22:06:43 GMT
To be honest I just can't see a new companion for Tom happening. The range is very nostalgia heavy so I think they'll continue as-is as long as the three principals are willing. We can dream I think everyone walks on eggshells with Tom anyway so broaching the subject may not be the easiest.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jan 10, 2016 22:24:58 GMT
The thing is, if you took the most iconic companions from both classic and new - Sarah Jane and Rose Tyler - and tried to list everything you know about them, I think you'd find a lot more things to say about Rose than Sarah Jane. Don't get me wrong, Sarah Jane is a great companion and the best of the classic series (bar K9 IMO) but an example of good character development she is not. Any signs of developing her character came later in School Reunion and The Sarah Jane Adventures. A character can have zero character development without that meaning the series is badly written. Good writing and character development are different things, the latter is merely one potential element of the former. What you are pointing out is the difference between a script edited series and a show-runner led one. RTD and Moffat, to varying degrees of success, have crafted seasons of the show to tell large stories, and fitted people's scripts in to tell small stories along the way, and so we see progression from one story to another. In the classic series, a script editor would produce a series bible to guide script writers and then select half a dozen scripts to put together and make a series, resulting in very little progression as the later stories use the same bible to define characters as the early ones did. It's not a sign of poor writing, just a different way of making television. I disagree, I don't think differences in the way the production of the show was run excuses bad character development and I believe character development is vital to writing. If you don't see a character change, then what are you rooting for them for? The university I go to has always taught me that characters need an inward and outward journey and I believe they are right. It's all well and fine to say 'Ian and Barbara want to return to 1960s Earth' but if their outward journey is that they have to come to terms with the idea they will never return there (as the classic series I believe doesn't do) it's a sign of much stronger writing. As I said, both the classic and new have their positives and negatives in my mind and this in my opinion is a flaw of the classic series that the new series gets right. However on the other hand the classic series is much more imaginative, often had plots with more danger and consequences and introduced a wider variety of companions. If you took the companion variety, imagination and plots of the classic series and combined them with the strong writing, better Doctors (IMO) and better use of time travel you would have an essential series of the show.
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Post by SG. on Jan 10, 2016 22:39:00 GMT
I guess one of the questions would be when BF would introduce a new companion for 4? We know seasons 5 & 6 feature Romana II and series 7 sees the return of Leela. We are talking 2019 before a potential new companion would be introduced in the range. If there is the strongly rumored Hinchcliffe 2, I'd love to have him (and Marc Platt, I guess) see if they could come up with a new companion even if only for the boxset, or perhaps a two-story set again with a one-off companion in each. More than any other Fourth Doctor release, the Hinchcliffe ones should be about recreating the era. I think that means it's a Leela-only zone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 22:49:12 GMT
If there is the strongly rumored Hinchcliffe 2, I'd love to have him (and Marc Platt, I guess) see if they could come up with a new companion even if only for the boxset, or perhaps a two-story set again with a one-off companion in each. More than any other Fourth Doctor release, the Hinchcliffe ones should be about recreating the era. I think that means it's a Leela-only zone. he 4th Doc releases wherever they appear are far too nostalgic as it is. If BF had have been that set on recreating an era in 1999 when they won the Who licence, I don't think they'd still be in business. There have been some good 4th Doc stories for sure but very few that pushed the envelope even slightly. That's kinda sad. He's the "safe" Doctor now on audio and I dearly wish he'd get his own Live 34, Holy Terror or Creatures Of Beauty. Hinchcliffe got sacked by the BBC from his job producing the show so I'd like to hear what he would have done next if that didn't happen rather than living the same "teatime in 1977" loop over and over.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 23:11:09 GMT
More than any other Fourth Doctor release, the Hinchcliffe ones should be about recreating the era. I think that means it's a Leela-only zone. he 4th Doc releases wherever they appear are far too nostalgic as it is. If BF had have been that set on recreating an era in 1999 when they won the Who licence, I don't think they'd still be in business. There have been some good 4th Doc stories for sure but very few that pushed the envelope even slightly. That's kinda sad. He's the "safe" Doctor now on audio and I dearly wish he'd get his own Live 34, Holy Terror or Creatures Of Beauty. Hinchcliffe got sacked by the BBC from his job producing the show so I'd like to hear what he would have done next if that didn't happen rather than living the same "teatime in 1977" loop over and over. I wonder if the Hinchcliffe boxset had been made as is for Six/Mel or Five/Turlough, it would have been regarded as safely traditional... Hmm... The former actually sounds amazing. I'd like to see a Fourth Doctor story inspired by The Grand Budapest Hotel or Krull. Or even something like V for Vendetta. Something really out there and unconventional that Tom Baker can sink his teeth into. A character can have zero character development without that meaning the series is badly written. Good writing and character development are different things, the latter is merely one potential element of the former. What you are pointing out is the difference between a script edited series and a show-runner led one. RTD and Moffat, to varying degrees of success, have crafted seasons of the show to tell large stories, and fitted people's scripts in to tell small stories along the way, and so we see progression from one story to another. In the classic series, a script editor would produce a series bible to guide script writers and then select half a dozen scripts to put together and make a series, resulting in very little progression as the later stories use the same bible to define characters as the early ones did. It's not a sign of poor writing, just a different way of making television. I disagree, I don't think differences in the way the production of the show was run excuses bad character development and I believe character development is vital to writing. If you don't see a character change, then what are you rooting for them for? The university I go to has always taught me that characters need an inward and outward journey and I believe they are right. It's all well and fine to say 'Ian and Barbara want to return to 1960s Earth' but if their outward journey is that they have to come to terms with the idea they will never return there (as the classic series I believe doesn't do) it's a sign of much stronger writing. Personally, I thought one of the strengths of Ian and Barbara's characterisations was that they never gave up hope that one day they'd return home. And if you're talking about outbound arcs, the first three have one where everyone aboard the TARDIS comes to accept one another and they both teach the Doctor to think beyond himself. The Edge of Destruction is vital in that respect because it's the culmination of all that background detail as the Doctor, Susan, Ian and Barbara begin to bond and become a family. It's one of the things I prefer about standalone stories compared to ongoing arcs, you put so much detail and attention into the mythos -- promising audiences that it'll get better -- that you loose sight of the journey. So much so, that when you get to the destination it and all that was leading up to it was a resounding disappointment. Something to watch out for there. Everything else you've said rings true and the changing attitude towards ongoing story development is something that Big Finish have used to their advantage to flesh out the Sixth Doctor. The first six or seven stories they did with Evelyn were basically all about maturing and changing old Sixy based on previous escapades. The Apocalypse Element was Attack of the Cybermen 2.0 and showed his passionate side when fighting against all odds, Bloodtide was his fantasy historical with Charles Darwin, Project: Twilight confronted the more violent aspects of his tenure and The Sandman was a much more sympathetic redo of Mindwarp. They were all stories that built up his incarnation from where he'd been knocked down, turning him from the bombastic jester into a fleshed out character. Imagine if they'd gone the Star Trek: Voyager route and never changed anything, just kept the characterisation from his televised stories. Sixy would never have become as popular on audio as he is now.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 10, 2016 23:18:20 GMT
Ha. What I wish is Tom had signed on 15 years ago and we would gotten multiple series with Sarah Jane, The Brig and Romana I. I think the heavy nostalgia vibe of the FDAs has a lot to do with Tom and what he is comfortable with. Who nose, if he had signed on years ago he might have been more open to experimenting and engaging with new companions.
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Post by SG. on Jan 10, 2016 23:26:35 GMT
More than any other Fourth Doctor release, the Hinchcliffe ones should be about recreating the era. I think that means it's a Leela-only zone. he 4th Doc releases wherever they appear are far too nostalgic as it is. If BF had have been that set on recreating an era in 1999 when they won the Who licence, I don't think they'd still be in business. There have been some good 4th Doc stories for sure but very few that pushed the envelope even slightly. That's kinda sad. He's the "safe" Doctor now on audio and I dearly wish he'd get his own Live 34, Holy Terror or Creatures Of Beauty. Hinchcliffe got sacked by the BBC from his job producing the show so I'd like to hear what he would have done next if that didn't happen rather than living the same "teatime in 1977" loop over and over. Oh, trust me, I agree that the FDAs should really stop the nostalgia trip. But the Hinchcliffe ones specifically should be more nostalgic. After all, that's the point of them, isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 23:36:41 GMT
he 4th Doc releases wherever they appear are far too nostalgic as it is. If BF had have been that set on recreating an era in 1999 when they won the Who licence, I don't think they'd still be in business. There have been some good 4th Doc stories for sure but very few that pushed the envelope even slightly. That's kinda sad. He's the "safe" Doctor now on audio and I dearly wish he'd get his own Live 34, Holy Terror or Creatures Of Beauty. Hinchcliffe got sacked by the BBC from his job producing the show so I'd like to hear what he would have done next if that didn't happen rather than living the same "teatime in 1977" loop over and over. Oh, trust me, I agree that the FDAs should really stop the nostalgia trip. But the Hinchcliffe ones specifically should be more nostalgic. After all, that's the point of them, isn't it? Here's an interesting question: What do people consider to be nostalgic? What specifically do you think makes you wistful and cheery about an oft forgotten time? Is it a particular formula, a particular style of characterisation, a formatting choice, a sense of tone, the story's themes, the production style?
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Post by omega on Jan 11, 2016 0:42:43 GMT
he 4th Doc releases wherever they appear are far too nostalgic as it is. If BF had have been that set on recreating an era in 1999 when they won the Who licence, I don't think they'd still be in business. There have been some good 4th Doc stories for sure but very few that pushed the envelope even slightly. That's kinda sad. He's the "safe" Doctor now on audio and I dearly wish he'd get his own Live 34, Holy Terror or Creatures Of Beauty. Hinchcliffe got sacked by the BBC from his job producing the show so I'd like to hear what he would have done next if that didn't happen rather than living the same "teatime in 1977" loop over and over. Oh, trust me, I agree that the FDAs should really stop the nostalgia trip. But the Hinchcliffe ones specifically should be more nostalgic. After all, that's the point of them, isn't it? The Fourth Doctor Adventures are capable of going beyond 1977. The last season proved they can push the envelope with stories like Requiem for the Rocket Men and Death Match. I'd like to hear something that would never have even been conceived in the most drug addled of minds back in 1977. Nostalgia works in small doses, and part of the appeal of the Hinchcliffe stories is the nostalgia for a well-considered period of Doctor Who's history. You get it for the tone it's giving off. It's rather telling that the Fourth Doctor audios people tend to talk about are the special releases, like Philip Hinchcliffe Presents and the Novel Adaptations instead of the monthly stories. They've yet to produce a stone-cold classic like Big Finish have produced for the other Doctors.
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Post by constonks on Jan 11, 2016 2:46:20 GMT
[...] and series 7 sees the return of Leela. [...] What? When was that confirmed? I'd really hoped that they were continuing to move chronologically (except Series 2 being between 4 and 5) and we'd be getting Adric at some point...
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 11, 2016 3:44:33 GMT
Either a podcast or something Nick said at a convention.
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Post by constonks on Jan 11, 2016 4:28:59 GMT
Shame, really. I mean, I love Leela but she's the Fourth Doctor's go-to companion most of the time, like Nyssa to Five, Peri to Six, Ace to Seven, etc. Here's hoping they do something new and exciting with them.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Jan 11, 2016 9:36:20 GMT
Shame, really. I mean, I love Leela but she's the Fourth Doctor's go-to companion most of the time, She's not really. It's only because at one stage only Lou was available so there was a block. Mary had sadly gone and Lalla hadn't yet agreed to do them. After these two years of Romana, the amount of Leela and Romana audios will have pretty much balanced out, now there's about to be a block without her.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Jan 11, 2016 9:37:39 GMT
If there is the strongly rumored Hinchcliffe 2, I'd love to have him (and Marc Platt, I guess) see if they could come up with a new companion even if only for the boxset, or perhaps a two-story set again with a one-off companion in each. More than any other Fourth Doctor release, the Hinchcliffe ones should be about recreating the era. Why?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 16:51:17 GMT
More than any other Fourth Doctor release, the Hinchcliffe ones should be about recreating the era. Why? Because that was supposed to be the concept of the set wasn't it?
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Post by constonks on Jan 11, 2016 19:58:38 GMT
Shame, really. I mean, I love Leela but she's the Fourth Doctor's go-to companion most of the time, She's not really. It's only because at one stage only Lou was available so there was a block. Mary had sadly gone and Lalla hadn't yet agreed to do them. After these two years of Romana, the amount of Leela and Romana audios will have pretty much balanced out, now there's about to be a block without her. I don't mean just in the FDAs though. Leela is the companion in so many Big Finish stories (admittedly for the same reason you stated) - a good amount of Short Trips, the Lost Stories, Hinchcliffe, Light at the End, ... I might be wrong on numbers though. There may very well be more non-FDA Romana stories than Leela ones. This isn't me saying I want Leela to go away - if we got another boxset like PHP or something that would be marvellous and more Gallifrey is always welcome - I just feel like a fourth whole year of Four and Leela feels like another year where we're not getting anything "new". This could just be pessimism though. Who knows how "new" Season 5-7 will feel!
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Post by seeley on Jan 11, 2016 20:13:13 GMT
Because that was supposed to be the concept of the set wasn't it? My understanding is that it was supposed to be based on his plans for Season 15, plans that, thanks in no small part to a certain self-proclaimed media watchdog, didn't come to fruition.
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