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Post by sherlock on Dec 6, 2021 11:03:00 GMT
Well we did this for Series 11 & 12, and arguably its even more valid this time round as Series 13 was all one story. So what did we make of Flux overall? Bonus questions; did the serialisation work for you and would you like this format done in modern Who again?
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Post by mark687 on Dec 6, 2021 14:50:24 GMT
Well we did this for Series 11 & 12, and arguably its even more valid this time round as Series 13 was all one story. So what did we make of Flux overall? Bonus questions; did the serialisation work for you and would you like this format done in modern Who again? Good overall however as it was a serialized narrative: Very rare I do this but for the esteemed Members of this Forum I present How I Would've Done it. (Part 1) Apocalypse open with the Fugitive Doc sequence from Once then 13 wakes from this "dream" with the image of Karnvistra and so goes looking for him, rest of EP plays as it did War No Changes. Once Probable have all of Vinder and Bel's scenes up to and including the ones from Angels here ( so Vinder makes his own escape from Time Planet). The scenes from the companion's Timelines. An additional just before the last temple scene where we think the Doctor's talking to the Mori but its actually Time the Force. End of EP plays out as before minus Vinder. How I Would've Done it (Part 2) Now the drastic changes start (might even need an Extra Ep , if you can't, then you loose the Grand Serpent and UNIT altogether) anyway Angels Loose the little Girl have Dan and Yaz transported to 1901 by Angels as soon as they leave the TARDIS, everything plays the Doctor but Jericho gets transported to 1901 during the Doctor's and Rouge Angel's talk, Cliff-hanger the same expect for Dan Yaz and Jericho they've already been there a year, and the Doc makes the Angels put the Village parts back where they should be in 1902 before surrendering. Now additional EP. No Doctor or Companion's just the Serpent, UNIT History and and Kate ending with the shield being compromised by Bel and the Sontarans turning up. Survivors of the Flux The Doctor at Division and the companions quest in 1903 The Vanquishers show at least a bit of Kate's resistance. apart from that the EP plays as it did Regards mark687
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Post by shallacatop on Dec 6, 2021 15:47:04 GMT
I loved it and the journey across the five weeks. I don’t think it was perfect, but there was so much to enjoy and it’s been a pleasure spending time with this TARDIS team.
Jodie has consistently been at her peak throughout Flux, particular in the latter half where she spent time alone and interacting with the guest cast, which is where she’s at her best. I adore John Bishop as Dan and he hit it out the park straight away. Yaz will never be a favourite, but I’ve enjoyed her evolution and how she stands on her own.
All of the guest cast have been great, even with limited material for some of them, with Kevin McNally being the highlight.
In terms of what I’d change. Hmm, I don’t think I’d do anything majorly drastic, to be honest, I’d just try and make more out of the running time. I don’t believe Flux needed more episodes, just a re-evaluation of what it did. For example, Vinder, Bel, Di, Kate, Grand Serpent and the Passenger didn’t amount to much, if anything, really. I don’t think that would’ve changed with extra episodes save for dedicating that time to them entirely. Instead I’d cull them and further develop other areas, such as the Division and some more flashbacks, and give more time to Azure and Swarm, who seemed to go off the radar in the middle act of the story. The way their motivations was explained in The Vanquishers was well handled, despite being a huge infodump, but I’d have rather seen some of it earlier on.
I’d also try and make each episode feel a touch more cohesive in their own right. Not to undermine the overall story in any way, I think it’s been a success, but I’d have liked to have come away each week and really know what I thought to that chapter, rather than it being a sequence of seemingly unconnected events in the case of at least three chapters.
I think Survivors of the Flux perhaps fares worst for the above and also in terms of advancing the plot very little. There’s no need for Yaz, Dan and Jericho’s exploring to have gone any further than the pre-titles, with the bulk of the episode being them exploring the different doors of the tunnels. With the UNIT sub-plot scrapped, I think there’s scope for further exploration of the Division and also seeding the Sontaran’s reappearance, with the cliffhanger being their annihilation of the Lupari fleet and therefore Earth becoming unprotected from both them and the Flux.
Just to reiterate, I loved it, just the running time could’ve been better utilised in some respects. Some of it is juggling a lot of characters, which is why I’d have culled them, but a sizeable amount is Chibnall’s way of writing under his tenure. A lot of exposition and recapping from scene to scene, as though he’s writing for an audience that are both scrolling through Twitter and have an eye on the telly. I wonder if his kids do that and it’s come from there?
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Post by stcoop on Dec 6, 2021 17:05:11 GMT
Sadly I feel it fell at the final hurdle but I'd rather see something ambitious that didn't quite succeed than something with no ambition.
And from a pure numbers perspective doing a serialised story seems to have worked as the series has been the 2nd most watched drama on TV for its run and in the top 10-15 (individual) shows every week.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2021 17:24:13 GMT
Well it kept me tuning in and it hadn’t done that since Chibs took over
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Dec 6, 2021 18:11:41 GMT
I loved every second of it. I love this era of Who & Flux was fantastic, the characters, the story, the production values. & all filmed during the most difficult of circumstances.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 6, 2021 21:34:16 GMT
Well, as I have written in the other thread... Series 13 was a big step up from series 11 and also a step up from series 12. The visuals and the firework of ideas, the new Lupari race, the use of the Angels, all of this is stunning and top notch. Two of the episodes, War of the Sontarans and Village of the Angels, are absolute classics. Especially Village of the Angels was massively unsettling and edge of your seat. The ending however left me a bit unsatisfied (but as I wrote at the very beginning, this was what I had expected would happen, so no real disappointment from me).
I would have wished for the story to be longer, to have more room to breathe, to give more time to the individual characters. The ending was too sudden, too unsatisfying with unresolved threads, it was too "Deus ex Machina".
The serialisation worked well for me.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Dec 6, 2021 21:38:46 GMT
Overall I feel this season was better and more consistant than the last 2 seasons with Jodie . A bit too quick and the ending to me, seemed just a bit too "magic fairy pixie dust all fixed up now". The fob watch and the mention of Master.. Been down that route before I hope it's a fakeout.
(I can't wait for her to hopefully join BF in a few years, just imagine how much more consistant/stronger the scripts will be).
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Post by thelonecenturion on Dec 6, 2021 22:10:10 GMT
Overall, Flux was a pretty solid story. It wasn't perfect, and there were a lot of things I'd change, but it was decent. My biggest issue is that there were so many plot threads, most of them didn't get a chance to properly breathe. That being said, the elements that were fleshed out were done so very well. Dan's a great companion, and the characters of Vinder, Jericho, and Karvanista are probably my favourite additions of the Chibnall canon.
Does anyone else think this series was pretty much made for Big Finish? There's the Grand Serpent's UNIT invasion; there's the three years Dan, Jericho, and Yaz spent in the 1900s (and McNally's no stranger to BF...); the adventures of the Fugitive Doctor and Karvanista; and - the most exciting of all, imo - the further adventures of Karvanista, Vinder, and Bel. I'd especially love it if BF ever gets a chance to do a series about that.
So yeah, overall, the build-up was better than the ultimate payoff, but this was the first time I've really enjoyed Chibnall's Who. By The Vanquishers, Jodie finally felt like she was hitting her stride all the time, and the dialogue in that episode was uncharacteristically good for one written by Chibs. Azhur Saleem has proven himself one of the best directors of Who - The Vanquishers had some really gorgeous shots. I guess, having said that, my genuine biggest gripe is that Flux was frustrating. Every episode had so much good, but usually only one or two bad things. This was most noticeable in the final episode, which had the best acting of Jodie's era so far, the best direction, and the best dialogue, but just didn't have as solid a story as the rest of the series.
Anyway, I give Flux a 7/10, and if things keep going the way they are, the next three specials should allow Chris and Jodie to go out on a high.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,661
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Post by shutupbanks on Dec 6, 2021 22:49:25 GMT
Really enjoyable. I’ve been on social media a bit over the last couple days and it seems that a lot of people have never watched Who before and are complaining about inconsistency and character flaws, like the Doctor happily consigning foes to death as though they’ve never done that before…
… for whatever reasons there’s a lot of butthurt menchildren who take Chibnall and Whittaker personally, as though a tv series has never had average episodes before or…
I just don’t get some fans. For me, personally, the show has never had such a consistently even run of episodes as this era. There have been fewer really awful episodes like Kill The Moon (which had bits I loved) or Forest Of The Night (which didn’t) and the whole tone has been consistent throughout. Some ups and downs but nothing like my standard reference of Caves/Twin.
Flux has been consistent all the way through. While I’ve loved some episodes madly, the result was a little less than the sum of its parts, but not by much. I’ve wanted a serialised season for such a long time and this managed to do it and really well, to boot. I would have loved to have seen the full 10 episode story but I’m very happy with this.
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Post by bonehead on Dec 7, 2021 10:44:47 GMT
I know it was only 6 episodes (quite lengthy ones, though), and I dislike making such 'grand' declarations, but I think Flux has been the most consistently brilliant series I can remember. Even the wonderful Series 10 (a favourite of mine) had the tiresome 'monk' trilogy, which dragged it down.
Events in Flux moved so quickly, that any less than exciting moments were over in a flash. I loved everything about it, and having tackled such a thing as ongoing *total* chaos, I think the series will remain unique - this isn't something you can pull off twice.
Also, to think it was filmed during a pandemic, the results are pretty amazing. In fact, I'm not even waiting for the Blu-ray; I'm going to watch the whole thing again on I Player.
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ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
Likes: 5,062
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Post by ljwilson on Dec 7, 2021 12:07:59 GMT
Sorry to buck the trend but I thought it wasn't very good. However, as TV Doctor who has become very much for younger viewers these days, I'm not sure me as a 47 yr old was the target audience!
Very wham-bam action orientated and not very interesting, and the screwdriver seems to hide, and fix, a multitude of sins. Jodie was ok and John Bishop was a good edition.
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Post by bonehead on Dec 7, 2021 13:02:02 GMT
Sorry to buck the trend but I thought it wasn't very good. However, as TV Doctor who has become very much for younger viewers these days, I'm not sure me as a 47 yr old was the target audience! Very wham-bam action orientated and not very interesting, and the screwdriver seems to hide, and fix, a multitude of sins. Jodie was ok and John Bishop was a good edition. 47? Hardly out of the playpen! 😁
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 7, 2021 13:12:55 GMT
So, I'm going to take up what may be an unpopular stance, but I do have reasons - Flux was fun, if flawed, but for me, the best series of this era, is still S11. That smaller intimate approach was more my jam.
I won't reiterate everything I've said (you can go to the individual ep threads if you want that) on each story, but sufficed to say, the pandemic highlighted the best and worst of this era.
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Post by bonehead on Dec 8, 2021 12:01:51 GMT
Here's Radio Times's take on 'Flux'. Quite fair, I think.
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Post by mark687 on Dec 8, 2021 16:05:46 GMT
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Post by agentten on Dec 8, 2021 22:15:39 GMT
As a whole, I think Flux was a success. It was exciting, I greatly anticipated watching it every week, and it was clear that a lot of effort went into it. It may have some little areas, particularly in the last episode, where it doesn't quite hit the mark, but this is hands down the most engaged I've been in Doctor Who since Capaldi's first season. I think the jury's still out on the unresolved portions of the story, but as Flux stands right now, I'm a big fan of it. It accomplished a lot of what it set out to do and elevated the era. The villains were intimidating and memorable, Whittaker was in top form, Dan is a great new companion, the weeping angels were scary again, the show looked and felt epic, and it felt like this era really came into its own. "Village of the Angels" was the best episode of the six. It was truly, start to finish, excellent Doctor Who, with one of the best Who cliffhangers ever. We got a surprisingly large cast by the end of things and I was impressed with how well the show handled that many characters. They each felt distinctive and engaging. These are characters I genuinely hope will return to the show, and hopefully will join Big Finish as well.
I've loved Doctor Who for so long now, ever since it helped get me through a lonely, rough time, and to see it shine like this really reminded me of why I love it.
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Post by Kestrel on Dec 9, 2021 17:14:21 GMT
I plan on marathoning through the whole thing soon... from what I've heard the consensus overall seems to be that it's essentially built of the same good bits and bad bits that characterized the preceding bulk of Chibnall's run, which... yeah. I'm told that the more episodic stories tend to be stronger than the more arc-centric ones. Do y'all feel that way? I think that was certainly the case for S11 and S12, such as their arcs went, but I feel like most fans were expecting the arc storyline in Flux to be a bit more impressive due to Chibnall's work on Broadchurch. Sorry to buck the trend but I thought it wasn't very good. However, as TV Doctor who has become very much for younger viewers these days, I'm not sure me as a 47 yr old was the target audience! Very wham-bam action orientated and not very interesting, and the screwdriver seems to hide, and fix, a multitude of sins. Jodie was ok and John Bishop was a good edition. So I see this attitude crop up a fair bit, and (I'll try to keep this brief) I think it's indicative of one of the biggest problems with the franchise. Basically, in the UK, it seems there's a very clear distinction between programming "for children" and "for adults" -- and when the two different ends of the spectrum are in contest, the former always wins out over the latter because "Doctor Who is for kids." And I compare that with how Star Trek was produced and marketed from the 1960s to 1990s -- oriented neither towards kids or adults, but rather the amalgamation of the two: as a family show. The difference being that it was important for both groups to be catered to -- neither one superseding the other. Like... not sure where I'm going with this (and I'm well aware this ain't the place to go anywhere) but I thought I'd mention it, as it came up.
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Post by Chakoteya on Dec 10, 2021 13:41:01 GMT
Satirical take from Private Eye....
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