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Post by tuigirl on Jan 2, 2022 10:23:28 GMT
So when I met Frazer at LI Who he was very upset about this casting. He felt very betrayed by BF, Nick in particular. No one had told him about recasting Michael and he didn't know it until he got the script and was told that he would just be playing Jamie. It was the subject of quite a long conversation. This sounds to me like another one of these big communication mishaps BF too often walks into. Nick & Co. appear to be attracted to them like a magnet. I do not believe BF is malicious or has bad intentions, but their communication skills have been in dire need of an upgrade for years. This is something that could have been solved/ avoided by talking. Were they afraid of conflict? I cannot imagine Frazer would have been more angry than what he is now! Seriously.
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Post by grinch on Jan 2, 2022 11:07:35 GMT
So when I met Frazer at LI Who he was very upset about this casting. He felt very betrayed by BF, Nick in particular. No one had told him about recasting Michael and he didn't know it until he got the script and was told that he would just be playing Jamie. It was the subject of quite a long conversation. This sounds to me like another one of these big communication mishaps BF too often walks into. Nick & Co. appear to be attracted to them like a magnet. I do not believe BF is malicious or has bad intentions, but their communication skills have been in dire need of an upgrade for years. This is something that could have been solved/ avoided by talking. Were they afraid of conflict? I cannot imagine Frazer would have been more angry than what he is now! Seriously. Yeah, all you really needed to do was sit down with Frazer Hines over a cup of tea and a Zoom call to discuss. As one of us has already mentioned, a little bit of common courtesy comes a long way. I do feel slightly bad for Michael Troughton as well I must admit. Hope he doesn’t feel like he has stepped on anyone’s toes or anything by taking on the role.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 2, 2022 11:22:58 GMT
So when I met Frazer at LI Who he was very upset about this casting. He felt very betrayed by BF, Nick in particular. No one had told him about recasting Michael and he didn't know it until he got the script and was told that he would just be playing Jamie. It was the subject of quite a long conversation. Seriously? That should make the Behind the Scenes Interviews interesting to say the least! Regards mark687
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Post by thelonecenturion on Jan 2, 2022 11:33:50 GMT
This sounds to me like another one of these big communication mishaps BF too often walks into. Nick & Co. appear to be attracted to them like a magnet. I do not believe BF is malicious or has bad intentions, but their communication skills have been in dire need of an upgrade for years. This is something that could have been solved/ avoided by talking. Were they afraid of conflict? I cannot imagine Frazer would have been more angry than what he is now! Seriously. Yeah, all you really needed to do was sit down with Frazer Hines over a cup of tea and a Zoom call to discuss. As one of us has already mentioned, a little bit of common courtesy comes a long way. I do feel slightly bad for Michael Troughton as well I must admit. Hope he doesn’t feel like he has stepped on anyone’s toes or anything by taking on the role. Well Heather Challands said in the Vortex interview that Frazer and Michael got on really well (they've known each other for a while which I think will have helped), and Briggs said that this is Hines's best performance yet. Hopefully this means that, if there was any tension to begin with, there isn't any longer.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jan 2, 2022 11:41:59 GMT
Well Heather Challands said in the Vortex interview that Frazer and Michael got on really well (they've known each other for a while which I think will have helped), and Briggs said that this is Hines's best performance yet. Hopefully this means that, if there was any tension to begin with, there isn't any longer. Hpoefully, but of course this is BF's on PR. I can't see why they couldn't just have spoken directly to Fraser Hines and said they thought bringing in a second actor would make interplay between the characters easier, or that they wanted to differentiate the Early Adventures and Season 6B series, or SOMETHING.... at least with the actors-off-of-the-biopic-first-doctor-series there's a clear reason not to cast Carole Ann Ford, but I don't see the same purpose to it here. It does make me feel uncomfortable about ordering from this range, now. On the other hand, Fraser Hines has never been able to do Patrick Troughton's angry/strident voice; he's always played the role towards the quiet and thoughtful. I wonder whether Michael can?
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Post by elkawho on Jan 2, 2022 13:36:50 GMT
So when I met Frazer at LI Who he was very upset about this casting. He felt very betrayed by BF, Nick in particular. No one had told him about recasting Michael and he didn't know it until he got the script and was told that he would just be playing Jamie. It was the subject of quite a long conversation. Well, that’s just simply not cricket. Really unfortunate to hear this and I’m rather disappointed in Big Finish after hearing this. I honestly expected them to be better. So did Frazer. He had lovely things to say about Michael as a person, but wasn't sure he could pull off the nuance of The Second Doctor, although I had a feeling it was his hurt feelings that were talking, so we'll see. He was set to go to Chicago Tardis the next week and thought that maybe he'd bring it up to Jason when he saw him there. IThat was after a couple of drinks, but I wonder if he ever did.
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Post by elkawho on Jan 2, 2022 13:44:58 GMT
Another thing to remember is that these older actors don't get a lot of jobs. The loss of playing Two is a cut in Frazer's pay for the job. So that feeds into his sense of anger as well (even though that wasn't what the discussion was about.) So if he did discuss things with Jason, maybe they came to some agreement.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 2, 2022 13:48:18 GMT
I mean, would he actually be getting paid to do both roles? Like Jamie is in pretty much every Second Doctor audio so I can’t really see how it’s a cut in pay unless their intention is to drop Hines entirely for the Second Doctor Adventures.
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Post by elkawho on Jan 2, 2022 15:17:14 GMT
I mean, would he actually be getting paid to do both roles? Like Jamie is in pretty much every Second Doctor audio so I can’t really see how it’s a cut in pay unless their intention is to drop Hines entirely for the Second Doctor Adventures. Yes, he was getting paid more for both roles.
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Post by cwm on Jan 2, 2022 15:20:14 GMT
I'm fairly certain you just get a flat fee from BF for appearing in a production regardless of how many characters you're playing. I don't think it's at all likely Frazer is getting a pay cut because he's no longer playing the Second Doctor, unless Michael Troughton starts appearing in stories that don't have Jamie in them (and even then it is unlikely Frazer was going to be considered to appear in those in the first place).
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Post by mark687 on Jan 2, 2022 15:28:36 GMT
I mean, would he actually be getting paid to do both roles? Like Jamie is in pretty much every Second Doctor audio so I can’t really see how it’s a cut in pay unless their intention is to drop Hines entirely for the Second Doctor Adventures. Yes, he was getting paid more for both roles. Really? makes it and even odder choice then. On the Interviews for Lost story Lords of the Red Planet, Frazer comments that Micheal sounds like Patrick, but Micheal comments that Fraser's better at Patrick's inflections and performance style so hopefully they've work-shopped it together. Regards mark687
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Post by thelonecenturion on Jan 2, 2022 16:25:38 GMT
I'm fairly certain you just get a flat fee from BF for appearing in a production regardless of how many characters you're playing. I don't think it's at all likely Frazer is getting a pay cut because he's no longer playing the Second Doctor, unless Michael Troughton starts appearing in stories that don't have Jamie in them (and even then it is unlikely Frazer was going to be considered to appear in those in the first place). From what Briggs has hinted at in the past, you don't even get paid more for writing and appearing in a release.
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Post by Max The Autist on Jan 2, 2022 17:23:38 GMT
Go on.... Well with what happened with James Dreyfus which they ghosted him That comes to mind Since nobody is going to bring up this choice comment here, I think it's a good time to remind a certain somebody that James Drefus is a transphobe. Frazer Hines is not. Do not compare these situations at all, James Drefus is a horrible human being, it hurts the argument to compare the two.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jan 2, 2022 18:10:02 GMT
I'm fairly certain you just get a flat fee from BF for appearing in a production regardless of how many characters you're playing. I don't think it's at all likely Frazer is getting a pay cut because he's no longer playing the Second Doctor, unless Michael Troughton starts appearing in stories that don't have Jamie in them (and even then it is unlikely Frazer was going to be considered to appear in those in the first place). From what Briggs has hinted at in the past, you don't even get paid more for writing and appearing in a release. I’ve not done it often, but I have been. Don’t know if that’s a freelancer thing, but it’s the fair thing to do.
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Post by xlozdob on Jan 2, 2022 20:58:16 GMT
Well, this has gone up in my wishlist considerably. Having both Doctors might be a reason why this story warranted the 7 parts.
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Post by thelonecenturion on Jan 2, 2022 21:13:25 GMT
From what Briggs has hinted at in the past, you don't even get paid more for writing and appearing in a release. I’ve not done it often, but I have been. Don’t know if that’s a freelancer thing, but it’s the fair thing to do. Yep, apologies, thinking about it more he may have been talking about voicing multiple characters.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 2, 2022 21:19:33 GMT
Well, that’s just simply not cricket. Really unfortunate to hear this and I’m rather disappointed in Big Finish after hearing this. I honestly expected them to be better. So did Frazer. He had lovely things to say about Michael as a person, but wasn't sure he could pull off the nuance of The Second Doctor, although I had a feeling it was his hurt feelings that were talking, so we'll see. He was set to go to Chicago Tardis the next week and thought that maybe he'd bring it up to Jason when he saw him there. IThat was after a couple of drinks, but I wonder if he ever did. I mean how would Nick feel if he gets a script where both the Daleks & the Cybermen are featured and when he shows up the on the day the 2nd AD lets him know he is only voicing the Daleks and someone else is doing the Cybermen?
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Post by captainpugwash on Jan 2, 2022 21:35:39 GMT
So did Frazer. He had lovely things to say about Michael as a person, but wasn't sure he could pull off the nuance of The Second Doctor, although I had a feeling it was his hurt feelings that were talking, so we'll see. He was set to go to Chicago Tardis the next week and thought that maybe he'd bring it up to Jason when he saw him there. IThat was after a couple of drinks, but I wonder if he ever did. I mean how would Nick feel if he gets a script where both the Daleks & the Cybermen are featured and when he shows up the on the day the 2nd AD lets him know he is only voicing the Daleks and someone else is doing the Cybermen? I would love for that to happen.
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Post by axelotl38 on Jan 3, 2022 3:52:35 GMT
This is honestly starting to sound childish and smug. And also David Banks has done Cybermen for Big Finish. So....
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ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Jan 3, 2022 11:21:41 GMT
I know someone has had a conversation with Fraser so has some insider info, but the rest is speculation at best. If Fraser was really that brassed-off, I doubt he would have voiced Jamie in this.
We are not privy to any of the internal conversations and pointing the finger at NB seems a bit mean when in reality we have no real idea of the circumstances.
This is bordering on that other bollox thread about James Goss being difficult, which started 'Ive heard....'
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