|
Post by shallacatop on Apr 30, 2022 9:38:12 GMT
The article doesn’t specify anything about the commission, brief, etc. but the synopsis makes it seem pretty intentional; “Marine biologist Hebe is thrown in at the deep end as the Doctor takes her on a tour of water worlds and makes a big splash – but that's only the beginning, and Hebe's past may shape the future of the entire world...” www.bigfinish.com/news/v/a-new-start-for-the-sixth-doctorAgain, I’m not saying the three stories won’t be brilliant. I just find it quite a self imposed restraint that runs the risk of repetition and theming for the sake of it. It often feels like that’s the core of the commission, alongside returning elements that others have voiced on this thread, and the end product is often quite forgettable or doesn’t land. Again, this is me as a consumer and my experience, not as a writer, producer, etc. Like you, I’m happy to be proven wrong by all of these releases! Sorry, but that’s still missing the point. We don’t actually know what the brief was. We don’t know whether the theme was imposed on all stories at commissioning stage, and if it was we don’t know that it’s just for the sake of it. The quote from the article doesn’t actually suggest what you’re suggesting it does. That is such a politicians response. If we’re going to use that logic then it also doesn’t suggest it wasn’t a brief, as you’re saying! I said it wasn’t specifically stating a commission or brief, but the synopsis, to me, reads as though it was intentional for the set to be structured like that. Ultimately it doesn’t particularly matter. The end product is a theme that’s spanning a set. It’s introducing risk of repetition. It’s not the first time Big Finish have done it, it won’t be the last, I’m sure. As a customer I don’t find it exciting, I find it quite uninspiring and unnecessary, and often I feel the product reflects that.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,063
Member is Online
|
Post by dorney on Apr 30, 2022 10:15:01 GMT
Sorry, but that’s still missing the point. We don’t actually know what the brief was. We don’t know whether the theme was imposed on all stories at commissioning stage, and if it was we don’t know that it’s just for the sake of it. The quote from the article doesn’t actually suggest what you’re suggesting it does. That is such a politicians response. If we’re going to use that logic then it also doesn’t suggest it wasn’t a brief, as you’re saying! I said it wasn’t specifically stating a commission or brief, but the synopsis, to me, reads as though it was intentional for the set to be structured like that. Ultimately it doesn’t particularly matter. The end product is a theme that’s spanning a set. It’s introducing risk of repetition. It’s not the first time Big Finish have done it, it won’t be the last, I’m sure. As a customer I don’t find it exciting, I find it quite uninspiring and unnecessary, and often I feel the product reflects that. It’s absolutely correct that we don’t know it wasn’t the brief. It might have been. But that’s literally the point I’m making - we don’t know what the brief was and I’m just pointing out alternative options. In the circumstances saying that it’s needlessly restrictive, etc, is flat wrong. In terms of the synopsis - I’m sure that’s how it’s structured when the storylines have been settled on and commissioned. Just saying it doesn’t tell us anything about the brief.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Apr 30, 2022 10:22:54 GMT
That is such a politicians response. If we’re going to use that logic then it also doesn’t suggest it wasn’t a brief, as you’re saying! I said it wasn’t specifically stating a commission or brief, but the synopsis, to me, reads as though it was intentional for the set to be structured like that. Ultimately it doesn’t particularly matter. The end product is a theme that’s spanning a set. It’s introducing risk of repetition. It’s not the first time Big Finish have done it, it won’t be the last, I’m sure. As a customer I don’t find it exciting, I find it quite uninspiring and unnecessary, and often I feel the product reflects that. It’s absolutely correct that we don’t know it wasn’t the brief. It might have been. But that’s literally the point I’m making - we don’t know what the brief was and I’m just pointing out alternative options. In the circumstances saying that it’s needlessly restrictive, etc, is flat wrong. In terms of the synopsis - I’m sure that’s how it’s structured when the storylines have been settled on and commissioned. Just saying it doesn’t tell us anything about the brief. Ah, yes, the old General Melchett: “Doing precisely what we've done eighteen times before is exactly the last thing they'll expect us to do this time!”
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,063
Member is Online
|
Post by dorney on Apr 30, 2022 10:40:42 GMT
It’s absolutely correct that we don’t know it wasn’t the brief. It might have been. But that’s literally the point I’m making - we don’t know what the brief was and I’m just pointing out alternative options. In the circumstances saying that it’s needlessly restrictive, etc, is flat wrong. In terms of the synopsis - I’m sure that’s how it’s structured when the storylines have been settled on and commissioned. Just saying it doesn’t tell us anything about the brief. Ah, yes, the old General Melchett: “Doing precisely what we've done eighteen times before is exactly the last thing they'll expect us to do this time!” I literally have no idea how that’s supposed to relate to what I’ve said. But hey, you do you.
|
|
|
Post by theillusiveman on Apr 30, 2022 10:59:10 GMT
Well if we are to take into account all the monsters and characters that returned in the box sets over the years we have
First Doctor Adventures: Volume #1: The Master Volume #2: No Returning Characters Volume #3: Carole Anne Ford as Older Susan Volume #4: The Daleks Volume #5: No Returning Characters Volume #6: The Monk
Second Doctor Adventures: Volume #1: The Daleks, The Brigadier and The Ice Warriors
Third Doctor Adventures: Volume #1: No Returning Characters Volume #2: No Returning Characters Volume #3: The Daleks Volume #4: The Monk and The Cybermen Volume #5: The Primords and The Vardans Volume #6: The Daleks and Churchill Volume #7: No Returning Characters (Marks The Debut of Sarah Jane Smith in the Range) Volume #8: The Draconians Volume #9: The Second Doctor and Jamie Volume #10: TBA
Fourth Doctor Adventures: Volume #7: The Robots of Death and Sutekh Volume #8: The Drashigs and The Villains from The Daleks Masterplan Volume #9: No Returning Characters Volume #10: No Returning Characters Volume #11: The Master and The Nine Volume #12: The Ice Warriors Volume #13: The Sea Devils and The Quarks
Fifth Doctor Adventures: Volume #1: No Returning Characters Volume #2: The Sontarans and Graceless Sisters Volume #3: The Daleks and Adric Volume #4: The Ice Warriors and The Cybermen Volume #5: The Brigadier, The Autons, Kamelion and The Master
Sixth Doctor Adventures: Volume #1: No Returning Characters Volume #2: The Elven Volume #3: No Returning Characters Volume #4: TBA
Seventh Doctor Adventures: Volume #1: No Returning Characters Volume #2: The Cybermen and Ribos Volume #3: TBA
Eighth Doctor Adventures: Charlotte Pollard Further Adventuress: Character from Sword of Orion appears Further Adventures of Lucie Miller: The Daleks and The Fendahl Dark Eyes #1: The Daleks Dark Eyes #2: The Daleks and The Master Dark Eyes #3: The Daleks and The Master Dark Eyes #4: The Daleks, The Master and The Sontarans Doom Coalition #1: No Returning Characters Doom Coalition #2: River Song and The Voord Doom Coalition #3: River Song Doom Coalition #4: River Song, The Monk and The Weeping Angels Ravenous #1: Churchill and The Candyman Ravenous #2: The Robots of Death Ravenous #3: Charley, Bliss, River Song, Adric, Romana 2, Jamie, Jo Grant, Katarina Ravenous #4: The Masters Stranded #1: Andy and The Curator Stranded #2: Andy, UNIT, The Curator, The Briagider and The Ogrons Stranded #3: Andy Strnaded #4: The Curator and Andy Time War #1: The Daleks Time War #2: The Daleks, The Ogrons and The Twlevth Time War #3: The Daleks and The Valeyard Time War #4: The Daleks and Davros
Ninth Doctor Adventures: Volume #1: No Returning Characters Volume #2: No Returning Characters Volume #3: The Cybermen Volume #4: The Cybermen, UNIT and The Brigaider Volume #5: TBA
Tenth Doctor Adventures: Volume #1: No Returning Characters Volume #2: The Ice Warriors Volume #3: Wilf, Silvia and The Judoon 10@RS: The Fifth, Sixth Doctors, River Dalek Universe #1: The Monk, Anya Kingdom, Mark 5 Dalek Universe #2: The Daleksm Anya Kingdom and Mark 5 Dalek Universe #3: Anya, River, Davros, Movellans and The Daleks Classic Companions: Ace, K9, Leela, Nyssa and The Axons
and that doesn't include The other ranges
|
|
|
Post by theillusiveman on Apr 30, 2022 11:12:13 GMT
but in all honesty im for continuing characters and monsters returning for the most part
|
|
|
Post by thewatcher on Apr 30, 2022 11:52:14 GMT
Daleks daleks dalek
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Apr 30, 2022 11:57:52 GMT
Without them this Topic doesn't exist neither arguable dose the show. Regards mark687
|
|
|
Post by thewatcher on Apr 30, 2022 12:03:21 GMT
Without them this Topic doesn't exist neither arguable dose the show. Regards mark687 I know
|
|
|
Post by thelonecenturion on Apr 30, 2022 14:12:51 GMT
The thing about the Daleks is that I actually think it's very difficult to produce as much Doctor Who as Big Finish does without including them. If they're supposed to be creatures who are utterly driven to exterminate anything that isn't a Dalek, with the aim of ruling the universe, it makes total sense that they'd show up as much as they do.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2022 14:36:17 GMT
The thing about the Daleks is that I actually think it's very difficult to produce as much Doctor Who as Big Finish does without including them. If they're supposed to be creatures who are utterly driven to exterminate anything that isn't a Dalek, with the aim of ruling the universe, it makes total sense that they'd show up as much as they do. And including them in lists like the one above in certain areas makes sense somewhat - but in Time War or Dalek Universe sets, surely they are rather necessary! I suppose one may say "well, BF didnt need to do Dalek Universe.." but the idea of Tennants Doctor, the icon of the modern era, in a very direct sequel to Daleks Master Plan is kinda wonderful and how I think elements from the past should be used. It did not feel forced or cynical to me, which is more what I think the issue is.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Apr 30, 2022 15:47:53 GMT
The thing about the Daleks is that I actually think it's very difficult to produce as much Doctor Who as Big Finish does without including them. If they're supposed to be creatures who are utterly driven to exterminate anything that isn't a Dalek, with the aim of ruling the universe, it makes total sense that they'd show up as much as they do. And including them in lists like the one above in certain areas makes sense somewhat - but in Time War or Dalek Universe sets, surely they are rather necessary! I suppose one may say "well, BF didnt need to do Dalek Universe.." but the idea of Tennants Doctor, the icon of the modern era, in a very direct sequel to Daleks Master Plan is kinda wonderful and how I think elements from the past should be used. It did not feel forced or cynical to me, which is more what I think the issue is.That’s exactly it. I don’t think anybody is saying ban all references, returning elements, gimmicks, etc. but it’s more and more feeling like the driving force behind decisions and it’s becoming tired and uninspired. That’s not to say there aren’t great uses of it. I wouldn’t be without Dalek Universe for the world, it’s a fantastic use of past elements and doesn’t put a foot wrong, except perhaps the Monk stuff, but that’s only more prevalent on a relisten. It’s also interesting to note that what Dalek Universe was marketed as and what it is are two completely different things; it’s so much more than skirmishes with Daleks and throwing in Mechonoids, Varga plants, etc. It’s about a universe that is scarred by the Daleks that’s driven by an eclectic TARDIS team that are forced together. If more releases were like that, it wouldn’t be an issue.
|
|
|
Post by anothermanicmondas on Apr 30, 2022 16:28:32 GMT
I would guess the original idea to have a marine biologist as a new companion and set up stories relating to aquatic environments to use the new companion's skills and knowledge (rather than have a new companion be a computer programmer and not have her go near a computer) and maybe have a story arc for this companion "who is definitely more than she seems"
whether it is good or not, I will have to listen to it to find out, but with Jacqueline Rayner and Jonathan Morris among the writers my expectations are high (no criticism intended towards Joshua Pruett - just unfamiliarity)
it's not that long ago people on this board were whinging about the trilogy format in the Main Range and calling for stories to return to the standards of earlier releases such as Nekromateia and the Dark Husband, or abandoning the Main Range altogether. Last year they ended the main range and this year they are launching the new approach and, as it's a launch point, it is only natural that Big Finish is looking for attention-getting ideas for this year's releases.
We're only 4 months into this new approach and already people are whining amd presumably wanting the return of the Main Range.
Come on people, give them a chance
|
|
|
Post by BHTvsTFC on Apr 30, 2022 17:34:12 GMT
The Daleks have their place, as does any returning element or even a mishmash of returning elements, but overuse, like anything leads to stagnation - does anyone remember the sitcom 'Allo 'Allo; the first few seasons were punchy and laugh out loud funny, the last ones felt like pulling teeth and they were exactly the same.
Using the previously mentioned Dalek Universe as an example - we have reference to genetically transformed plant life but it's got to be Varga plants on the menu again hasn't it? It's like Ribos' forthcoming reappearance; it's a big planet with a varied population but I bet we go back to the castle, in winter, in the catacombs with smugglers and jethrick! There's no reason the Doctor wouldn't visit the same planets now and again but they don't have to be tied so closely to the original story that it's just a tick sheet of references to go through and no substance.
|
|
|
Post by thewatcher on Apr 30, 2022 18:00:28 GMT
oh yes i forgot doctor is going back to ribos oh no
|
|
|
Post by ollychops on Apr 30, 2022 20:41:11 GMT
The thing about the Daleks is that I actually think it's very difficult to produce as much Doctor Who as Big Finish does without including them. If they're supposed to be creatures who are utterly driven to exterminate anything that isn't a Dalek, with the aim of ruling the universe, it makes total sense that they'd show up as much as they do. And including them in lists like the one above in certain areas makes sense somewhat - but in Time War or Dalek Universe sets, surely they are rather necessary!
I suppose one may say "well, BF didnt need to do Dalek Universe.." but the idea of Tennants Doctor, the icon of the modern era, in a very direct sequel to Daleks Master Plan is kinda wonderful and how I think elements from the past should be used. It did not feel forced or cynical to me, which is more what I think the issue is. Honestly, now we've got Time War releases, I'd rather BF keep their Dalek appearances to those sets and only include them elsewhere if they have a good story idea for them. Most of the time nowadays, it just seems like they throw Dalek stories out because... Daleks, not because there's a good idea for them.
|
|
|
Post by thewatcher on Apr 30, 2022 21:57:07 GMT
And including them in lists like the one above in certain areas makes sense somewhat - but in Time War or Dalek Universe sets, surely they are rather necessary!
I suppose one may say "well, BF didnt need to do Dalek Universe.." but the idea of Tennants Doctor, the icon of the modern era, in a very direct sequel to Daleks Master Plan is kinda wonderful and how I think elements from the past should be used. It did not feel forced or cynical to me, which is more what I think the issue is. Honestly, now we've got Time War releases, I'd rather BF keep their Dalek appearances to those sets and only include them elsewhere if they have a good story idea for them. Most of the time nowadays, it just seems like they throw Dalek stories out because... Daleks, not because there's a good idea for them. Yes this is true
|
|
|
Post by thewatcher on May 9, 2022 12:11:01 GMT
While tv show moves forward the Big Finish treads water it seems
|
|
|
Post by theillusiveman on May 9, 2022 13:29:18 GMT
While tv show moves forward the Big Finish treads water it seems How so? its not like Big Finish can create their own doctors anymore
|
|
lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
|
Post by lidar2 on May 24, 2022 14:43:25 GMT
And now we have the War Master meets Dorian Grey.
That's all I'm going to say.
|
|