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Post by Timelord007 on Feb 15, 2022 13:15:25 GMT
Do you think Big Finish are releasing to many new ranges? Do you feel that the storytelling quailty is suffering because of this & should less be more?
How do you feel about recast Doctors, companions & the new First & Second Doctor's or the Sixth Doctor Unbound Ranges? Do we need them or is the time right to try new ideas?
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Post by Timelord007 on Feb 15, 2022 13:17:15 GMT
My only gripe are the bulky 4-5 disc CD cases which don't fight next to the slimmer CD cases in my collection & i much prefer BF go back to releasing multi part stories in individual cases.
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Post by theillusiveman on Feb 15, 2022 13:45:00 GMT
Do you think Big Finish are releasing to many new ranges? Do you feel that the storytelling quailty is suffering because of this & should less be more? How do you feel about recast Doctors, companions & the new First & Second Doctor's or the Sixth Doctor Unbound Ranges? Do we need them or is the time right to try new ideas? Honestly I am more than happy with New Ranges, Variety is the spice of life and expanding stories with The New Who Companions is neat (just need a Jackson Lake spin off to complete the RTD Era)
I Think that there should be new writers on board and Big Finish should get writers from their past stories especially writers like Lance Parkin, Laurence Miles and Kate Orman
Recasted Doctors- i was okay with David Bradley as he played The Doctor on screen so he is a bit familiar (also helps he looks like Hartnell), Michael Troughton was okay as The Second Doctor in the 3DA but i would need to hear more of him in the role but i think Christopher Walker Thompson should have gotten the role as he sounds nearly 100 percent like Troughton and Tim Trelore is fairly solid as The Third Doctor though Jon Culshaw's 3rd Doctor is more stronger in Masterful and Terror of The Master.
Companions i was happy with The Recasts for The Brigadier, Ben, Kamelion, Liz and Sarah but i can understand at times them not sounding like the original actors.
The Unbound Range is a bit like Marvel's What if yes it fanbait but i think some What ifs can be refreshing especially with Storytelling potential, who knows we might even get to see a version of McGann's Doctor that's more darker and manipulative like 7.
i think having brand new doctors in the unbound range is vital and much more palatable than Timeless Children Doctors. plus Big Finish can actually have more creative freedom with the Unbound Doctors hard to know if the BBC would allow them though.
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Post by theillusiveman on Feb 15, 2022 13:46:10 GMT
My only gripe are the bulky 4-5 disc CD cases which don't fight next to the slimmer CD cases in my collection & i much prefer BF go back to releasing multi part stories in individual cases. Actually i love the slipcases the only issue is when there is one artwork for one story thats annoying would rather have 2 Disk in Slipcase like the 1DAs and 4DAs
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Post by mark687 on Feb 15, 2022 14:01:55 GMT
As I always say its down to individual choice.
I've never had an issue with re-casting an Actor whose no longer with us, re-casting an Actor whose available but not yet ready to work with BF is unnecessary. In 10-15 years when re-cast is the majority through necessity though, I will start stepping back from BF.
Likewise the spin-offs I only get what appeals to me.
I'll never get why they dropped the MR in favor of Box sets for all Docs instead of adding 4th or 8th back into it though.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Timelord007 on Feb 15, 2022 14:09:27 GMT
As I always say its down to individual choice. I've never had an issue with re-casting an Actor whose no longer with us, re-casting an Actor whose available but not yet ready to work with BF is unnecessary. In 10-15 years when re-cast is the majority through necessity I will start stepping back from BF. Likewise the spin-offs I only get what appeals to me. I'll never get why they dropped the MR in favor of Box sets for all Docs instead of adding 4th or 8th back into it though. Regards mark687 You & me both Mark i think scraping main range was a huge mistake.
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Post by Timelord007 on Feb 15, 2022 14:11:41 GMT
My only gripe are the bulky 4-5 disc CD cases which don't fight next to the slimmer CD cases in my collection & i much prefer BF go back to releasing multi part stories in individual cases. Actually i love the slipcases the only issue is when there is one artwork for one story thats annoying would rather have 2 Disk in Slipcase like the 1DAs and 4DAs That how i prefer them 2CD slipcases as opposed those bulky 4/5 CD cases the dont slot next to the 2 disc standard releases i have buy a non slot CD tower for them.
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Post by grinch on Feb 15, 2022 14:17:17 GMT
I personally have no issue with recasts. As long as they’re can capture the spirit of the character then I’m all for it.
Now when it comes to the numerous ranges Big Finish have an no doubt will continue to introduce for me it’s a matter of personal choice. I’m of the opinion that a spin off has to first and foremost justify its own existence. In some cases such as Torchwood/Jago and Litefoot/UNIT it makes sense and they quickly become mainstays but for others I just get the impression they merely serve as an excuse for Big Finish to continue working with actors they like.
I mean, some of the choices over the years have left me rather puzzled with there clearly being a lack of an audience for it. Tales from New Earth for instance simply came and went with little to no fanfare.
I suppose in the end they’ll be something for everyone but I don’t know, I almost think it’ll be a case of as the title of this thread suggests a case of too much of a good thing.
And yes, I too miss the Monthly Range.
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 16, 2022 9:56:31 GMT
Well, it has been going for for longer than my Who-Fandom that BF has created all these weird and wonderful spin-offs and new ranges. Some of them are great and still running. "Robots" for example was a stroke of genius and for me one of the best ranges at the moment. Some of them went bust and I never even bothered with them. I agree that it is just a matter of taste, and this way, there seems to be something for everybody, even for people with very obscure tastes. Does BF over-exert themselves? I do not think they do any more than they did all the recent years ago. They just try to fill the gap of the monthly range. But to be honest- the monthly range is sorely missed, and so far, I have not seen anything that truly makes me feel "Yes, this is it, this will fill the gap". How do I feel about things like the new Unbound range? I am a huge fan of Colin. I love him to bits. But I am aware that of course he is not getting any younger, and when you see him on Convention videos, it is obvious his health is also not getting any better. I really really hope he will still be well enough so I can finally meet him in person this year, but who knows? I am glad he is still willing and able to do audios for BF. I am glad he still is so enthusiastic and energetic about it and I am happy for every audio they do with him. And since I am such a huge fan, I do not really care what the audio is about, sadly I am so fan-girly, he could read the local phone book and I would buy the release. As for the re-casts.... they really are a total hit and miss for me. I am still trying to come to terms with Dudman and not really succeeding on that regard. The 3rd Doctor is alright, as is the Brigadier. Sadly, I was not too fond of the new 2nd Doctor. For me, it really comes down to if the actor is able to catch the spirit of the character. It could be a total sound alike, if the actor does not catch the spirit, I am completely pulled out of the story. Best example: The new War Doctor range. Yes, the guy sounds like Hurt, but he blatantly obviously is NOT Hurt. Listening to the stories just feels wrong, it for me is the audio version of the Uncanny Valley. I have not even finished the first new War Doctor release yet because it just feels wrong. Polar opposite: Katy Manning reading 3rd Doctor audio books and doing the 3rd Doctor. I am absolutely 100% on board with her. I LOVE her 3rd Doctor voice. So no, I am not opposed to re-casts, but they have to "feel" right, otherwise, I am not going to bother.
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Post by BHTvsTFC on Feb 16, 2022 10:32:59 GMT
The problem with Big Finish is sometimes you feel like there's too much product and then when you get the bug you realise there will never be enough Big Finish product. I wouldn't be without The Lost Resort, Watchers, Short Trips 11, Peladon, or The Annihilators for anything.
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Post by sherlock on Feb 16, 2022 12:35:54 GMT
I’m reminded of the last The Review of Death podcast (good listen if you’re into fan podcasts) where they did awards for various Who categories based on 2021. One was best Big Finish release of the year and they were all staggered at the sheer number of Big Finish products.
Big Finish’s produces a lot. There is no way anyone is buying everything. Which also means it’s creatives (who are limited in number, because though Big Finish always say they seek new talent that’s clearly taking some time to really implement) are spread across a lot of ranges. I do wonder if this is a contribution to so many releases for me being simply solid and entertaining for their runtime, but utterly forgettable. Someone focusing all their efforts on a small number of productions is surely likely to result in higher quality than someone sitting down to write their 10th script of the year.
I do think part of the problem is the ranges are all infinite. Gone are the days of spin-offs telling a story and actually ending it. The only one that has had an ending in recent years is Gallifrey: Time War. Even The Robots, which from its premise of lasting one year has a time limit imposed on it, managed to get elongated by two more boxsets. So each instalment in a range just feels like it’s going on and on, and not really shifting the dial on the status quo.
Take UNIT; are Kate, Osgood, Josh and Sam really any different in Cyber-Reality than they were boxsets earlier in Extinction? Has any of the storylines actually changed something or fundamentally moved the story forward from where they were originally? Not really. It’s the same with Jenny, with Series 2 & 3 of Missy, with River Song. These ranges do not really push or change the characters, or their relationships to others. They just come out of their toybox for some shenanigans, then get put back exactly as they were ready for the next outing. So it just feels like the stories don’t matter at all.
And with ranges being infinite, each instalment feels more and more need to resort to gimmicks. “Oh we need to do a Seventh Doctor set this year…I guess we’ll just do a sequel to The Ribos Operation?”, “Oh we need to do a River Song set, who hasn’t she met yet?”.
I don’t mind recasts if they’re in service of a story. Someone comes along with a really great idea for a First Doctor & Dodo storyline, then recast Dodo. I’m currently listening to Class audios and yeah they recast two of the leads for Volumes 3 & 4; and I don’t mind because the stories themselves needed those characters. It doesn’t feel like they recast so they could regularly pump out more and more content (which I sort of wonder is the idea behind Noonan, so they can get more than one 1DA set out a year), but because they really wanted to use these characters and had ideas for stories that would challenge and impact them, rather than being another Tuesday for them.
Anyway that’s my ramble.
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Post by Kestrel on Feb 16, 2022 12:42:05 GMT
I often see Big Finish accused of a quantity over quality approach, but I don't really buy it. Yes, they release an enormous volume of stories... and yes the quality is a bit inconsistent... but that's nothing new. Even the flagship Monthly Range, in its "golden age," alternated between stories that were great, good, and sometimes just okay.
I suspect the issue is that, all things being finite, the volume of content makes it easier for people to see more of the mediocre stories and miss out on the great ones. Like, I think Dalek Universe and Peladon are some of the best sets Big Finish has ever released (and Stranded and Susan's War, while we're listing phenomenally good new releases) -- but you would have a very different opinion of Big Finish's output if you'd decided to listen to Missy 3 and War Doctor Begins and Rory instead.
The increased quantity means we're getting more mediocre stories, and more (though still very rare IMO) bad stories--which, yeah, ain't great--but it also means we're getting more genuinely fantastic stories.
And I think that's a pretty fair trade-off, myself.
Also, for all of this increased rate of production, Big Finish sure is sleeping on Gallifrey, NABS and 8DTW.
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Post by shallacatop on Feb 16, 2022 16:08:21 GMT
I don't think Big Finish necessarily do a quantity over quality approach. That would imply they're releasing every single product for the same group of people, which just isn't true. I don't think there are many customers that feel as though they're missing out due to the glut of content. They simply buy what appeals and don't buy what doesn't. I think where they do have the issue is how uninspiring a lot of their output has been recently. A lot of them are penned by the same people and contain the same tropes that makes everything all the more repetitive and, dare I say, forgettable. They meander and don't seem to exist for any reason other than pairing X with Y, or doing a sequel to Z. I've said as much recently, where we can debate the pros and cons to such an approach forever, and I can easily pluck out several examples each for and against of sets released in just the past year. I think if they stopped spreading themselves thin on the production side, then we would likely see an improvement. Or at least the attempts to try and do something different. I don't think a reduction in output is the answer particularly because you'd just be reducing what appeals to people. I side with sherlock's point about some ranges seemingly running forever, but equally as BHTvsTFC has said, there are some ranges I would not be without. I want The Diary of River Song to go on forever, but I also want it to go beyond pairing River with X and Y or putting her in the events of Z. And I think expanding on the creative talent is the way to do that. It's something Big Finish have said they're working on, but it's also only really happening on "lesser" ranges and I'm not seeing the transfer of that talent into higher profile releases. And on the rare occasion it does, they're then used on everything so you're very quickly back to square one. As for recasts, but I have my own preferences and also opinions on where I draw the line. I think Jonathan Carley has been consistently excellent. I think Tim Treloar is a great asset that's had a meandering period that he's seemingly getting back out of. I thought Michael Troughton was quite rough. I love David Bradley and I'm not keen on Stephen Noonan based on what's released. I think Jacob Dudman is a terrific impersonator of David Tennant and Matt Smith, but I don't think he's a brilliant actor and I don't understand why the Chronicles sets revolve around him and don't adopt the successful Companion Chronicles format. But they're just my opinions on the recasts, rather than an opinion on recasting as such, much like how I'd post my opinion on everything else I consume.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Feb 16, 2022 17:15:41 GMT
Someone focusing all their efforts on a small number of productions is surely likely to result in higher quality than someone sitting down to write their 10th script of the year. For what it’s worth, I think that’s one of those things that feels logical but doesn’t actually become true in reality. There was one period where one script I wrote took a week from conception to completed draft. Immediately afterwards another took four months. The former is, in my opinion, definitely a better script despite taking a much shorter amount of time to create. Generally speaking this is because writing is an art, not a science. And everyone involved at BF is very keen to give each release as much time as is needed to make it as good as it can be.
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Post by bonehead on Feb 16, 2022 18:45:22 GMT
I remember those dismal rainy years following Series 26, grabbing hold of any little media tidbit that had 'Doctor Who' in the title. Often, the old show wasn't written about with a great deal of reverence, but a mention is a mention. We'd get Dimensions in Time, which didn't do a lot to dispel Doctor Who's less-than-stellar reputation, and so we pinned our hopes on the Paul McGann TV Movie, which got good ratings but didn't lead to anything. We'd get the Virgin books, (which never interested me, but that's irrelevent) and then we got the BBC books (many of which I loved). But not even in 1999, when Big Finish started releasing Doctor Who, did we ever have 'too much of a good thing' - there was never quite enough!
BF release shed loads of content. To have enough ranges and enough spin-offs to pick and choose which is likely to thrill us, and which is going to satisfy those with other Who preferences, is a wonderful, wonderful problem to have. We're pretty lucky, I think.
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Post by andrew on Feb 16, 2022 18:54:04 GMT
Generally speaking this is because writing is an art, not a science. And everyone involved at BF is very keen to give each release as much time as is needed to make it as good as it can be. And that's why my attempt to write software to create BF scripts failed. I applied all the science to it. I programmed it with so many rules sure to make for a great story, or at least one that BF would love to record and sell. If Doctor = 10, include a line where he says 'Well...." If Enemy = Daleks, include Dalek control room heartbeat sound effect - everyone loves that Plot_TimeyWimeyNess = On If River Song not present in story, add River Song to story Turned out that wasn't enough. So I fed it in every one of Dorney's scripts. My code wept tears of admiration and respect, then ran off. It now works at churning out scripts for Emmerdale. Next time you watch that show listen out for a "Well.." line, the hypnotic new sound effect on every scene set in the Woolpack, a storyline where a Dingle turns out to be their own grandfather and River Song as the new hot vet.
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Post by masterdoctor on Feb 16, 2022 18:56:08 GMT
I think Big Finish releases a lot for anyone trying to buy everything to listen to as it all releases, but I think the nice thing is that even with Doctor Who, you have ranges that are for many different types of fans. Someone who will love Stranded might not love The Eighth Doctor and Charley/Lucie sets, and that is ok. Big Finish is casting a wide net, that on the whole is very high quality, and allows for people to enjoy there favourite characters once again in a show that constantly moves forward.
And a side note, I do think Big Finish in the last couple of years have made some pretty apparent strides in new talent, from new producers Heather Challands, Emily Cook, Dominic G Martin and a bevy of writers such as Lizzie Hopley(not new so much as resurgence), Lou Morgan, Alison Winter etc.
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Post by Timelord007 on Feb 17, 2022 9:29:48 GMT
My own personal thoughts are i love the majority of the ranges, the War Doctor audios give us a insight into the Time War & expand upon Doctor's whom had a shorter run on Tv. John dorney , Matt Fitton, Andrew Smith, Chris Chapman & many other writers consistently write exciting entertaining adventures & the casting, sound design & score always captures the tone & era of each incarnation. Losing my dad last year to Covid was the most devastating year my life & i also became very ill with Covid as well as becoming a Type 2 diabetic & BF was my go to place to switch off escapism from the real world & I'll forever be grateful to them. And what made my year was we finally after my waffling on the Third Doctor Adventures Vol 8 where we had not one but two "reverse the polarity" in this set . My only small gripe is do we need 4 box sets to tell a story? It a yeatly wait to get to the conclusion & like i said those bulky 4-5 disc CD cases which don't fit in my collection.
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Post by thelonecenturion on Feb 17, 2022 9:44:04 GMT
I think giving each range its own producer is a great idea, and I think it'll combat the 'bloated' (if you could call it that?) feel of BF in recent years. It allows for more creativity, while ensuring that fresh talent gets mixed in as well.
I also think the 'miniseries' approach is great - examples like Dalek Universe being a limited series, not something that will just go on and on, or Unbound: Doctor of War, or UNIT: Nemesis. I feel like in these cases it does prevent creative burnout, especially when compared to the previous ongoing UNIT series, for example.
Personally, I think BF does get far more criticism than it deserves, in regard to the "quantity over quality" line that people use. Bad releases are, in my opinion, a rarity, and most of BF's output is, to me, pretty solid.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2022 22:57:32 GMT
There's a Big Finish range for everybody! A lot of the new ranges Big Finish release don't always inspire me but my choice is not to buy those ranges. I don't begrudge others delight and enjoyment if they happen to like those ranges. As for recasts, <shrugs> what else are you going to do if you have a licence for all of Doctor Who from 1963-2017 and some Doctors/companions are no longer with us? It's recast or never have adventures from those eras. Again, I may not always choose to buy those stories, but each to their own...
I understand a lot of what Big Finish do, okay maybe not their marketing strategy, but I get why they choose to release a lot of output. For me though, all that quantity means I have no choice but to pick and choose the releases I buy. If people can afford to buy every Big Finish release, good luck to them!
I do think a lot of modern Doctor Who stories are tame and can be very much by-the-numbers, but the licence would mean there's only so much pushing the boundaries you are allowed to do. So that's understandable. It's great that Big Finish can still churn out the the quality that they do after all these years though. Releasing less stories wouldn't necessarily mean better quality.
I don't like the box set format (there's a surprise) and I would still prefer a monthly Doctor Who range of 2 x CD releases featuring whatever Doctor they wanted. The Doctor Who Main Range didn't need to be terminated, it just needed some love and fresh ideas. Big 'event' stories dragged out over three or four discs for the sake of it often flatter to deceive. From my experience longer stories hasn't always meant better stories.
So, "too much of a good thing?" Probably, at times, but if you run a business with a licence from the BBC to produce Doctor Who audios it's perfectly natural that you would want to maximise that licence while you had it. So 'enjoy what you enjoy and ignore what you don't' is the best way forward with Big Finish in 2022.
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