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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2022 18:09:18 GMT
Am I the only person that thinks some people are being rather harsh towards Big Finish lately?
So what if they decided to end the Doctor Who monthly range. And it’s not just about that.
I think some of the criticism is getting a bit toxic.
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Post by shallacatop on Feb 19, 2022 18:36:39 GMT
I can’t say I’ve seen anything particularly toxic myself. It’s just opinions at the end of the day and this is a discussion board to chat about and debate them.
My personal pet peeve that’s happening more frequently is things being taken out of context or inferring someone is saying something when they’re not saying anything of the sort; a distortion to produce their own side of the argument. That’s not exclusive to either side of the argument or this forum, though. It’s just an effect of back and forth conversations over the Internet.
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Post by bonehead on Feb 19, 2022 19:21:19 GMT
As ever, on this forum, criticism is conducted with respect and politeness, especially recently. I think the 'too much of a good thing' thread has collected people's personal dislikes together. Perhaps we should have an 'appreciation' thread where posters say what they like about Big Finish to balance things out!
The end of the monthly range has saddened some - me included - but if it wasn't selling sufficiently, and box-sets were, then BF had little choice in changing things.
I think once the new Doctors have settled in, and every Doctor from 1-8 gets a fair share every year, people will be happier. Who knows?
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Post by BHTvsTFC on Feb 19, 2022 20:45:42 GMT
Nowhere near. Compared to a few years when the same small handful of writers were writing everything and 'generic' was the order of the day we are positively booming lately. There are faults, and I'm the first to mention them, but the best eras of the TV show weren't perfect by any means either. I said in a previous thread that I wouldn't be without Watchers, Peladon, Short Trips 11 or The Annihilators for anything, and they're just some of the releases this year! Forty on the other hand they can stick where the sun don't shine!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2022 20:56:12 GMT
Nowhere near. Compared to a few years when the same small handful of writers were writing everything and 'generic' was the order of the day we are positively booming lately. There are faults, and I'm the first to mention them, but the best eras of the TV show weren't perfect by any means either. I said in a previous thread that I wouldn't be without Watchers, Peladon, Short Trips 11 or The Annihilators for anything, and they're just some of the releases this year! Forty on the other hand they can stick where the sun don't shine!! To be honest, I think Forty is overhated. I really enjoyed it and thought it did well in commentating the Fifth Doctor’s 40th anniversary. I agree with everything else though.
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Post by Kestrel on Feb 20, 2022 21:49:00 GMT
I think you're going to have to clarify, @williamsfan92 , where you're seeing this "toxicity." Because if you're talking about this forum, which would seem like a safe assumption absent any clarification, I can only scratch my head. We can certainly be critical of Big Finish here, but that criticism is almost always expressed very reasonably and calmly, and certainly not something that needs to curtailed or diminished in any respect.
Even in less... restrained environments, like r/Gallifrey or Discord, Big Finish and the content they produce tends to be spoken of very favorably, with only the mildest of criticisms, save for a few exceptions like Nekromanteia, Exile and the like.
So much so that calling this criticism toxic feels more like an attempt to dismiss all criticism than anything else. Which isn't to say there's not a lot of toxicity in the Doctor Who fandom (by god, there is so much) but IME it's mostly confined to discussions around the TV show.
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Post by Digi on Feb 20, 2022 22:22:58 GMT
Personal observation:
I'm not sure where you're from Williamsfan, but there is a cultural divide that I have noticed that could be colouring your perception.
As someone who is first generation not British (as in, I'm the first of my mother's family to be born and raised elsewhere), and living 'next door' to America, I often feel like an outside observer of Americans and Brits. And I've noticed that Americans have a tendency to be excessively positive when talking about things that they like (no matter whether they actually like it just a bit, or actually love it to death), while Brits tend to be overly negative talking about a thing, whether they enjoyed it or not. Neither one of these positions quite lands for me: I seem to earn eyerolls both from American friends who find me overly critical of things, and from British friends who think I'm too easily pleased.
It's not specific to this forum, or Big Finish, or even Doctor Who, it's something I've seen across a lot of entertainment media. And I certainly don't mean to exclude myself from either of those tracks--being of recent UK background and living in Canada, I'm sure I've fallen into each on many many occasions--it's just something that I picked up on some time ago on a subconscious level, which took me a while to figure out on a conscious level. Once upon a time I even found the old BF forums a little repellent because it seemed to me like everybody hated everything, and I didn't see much point in participating where everyone (seemed to) hate the things I liked.
After a while though, I more consciously worked out what it was I was really seeing, have found that I better understand that people don't quite mean to be as giddy/harsh as I first found them to be, it's just that people from different cultural upbringings talk in different ways. It's just a case of learning how to really read what you're reading, so to speak.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2022 22:31:52 GMT
I think you're going to have to clarify, @williamsfan92 , where you're seeing this "toxicity." Because if you're talking about this forum, which would seem like a safe assumption absent any clarification, I can only scratch my head. We can certainly be critical of Big Finish here, but that criticism is almost always expressed very reasonably and calmly, and certainly not something that needs to curtailed or diminished in any respect. Even in less... restrained environments, like r/Gallifrey or Discord, Big Finish and the content they produce tends to be spoken of very favorably, with only the mildest of criticisms, save for a few exceptions like Nekromanteia, Exile and the like. So much so that calling this criticism toxic feels more like an attempt to dismiss all criticism than anything else. Which isn't to say there's not a lot of toxicity in the Doctor Who fandom (by god, there is so much) but IME it's mostly confined to discussions around the TV show. I must apologise Kestrel. I suppose when I said toxicity, I meant that I felt as though some of the criticism was getting a bit harsh. I've only listened to 17 out of the 300 or so stories that came out of the monthly range. I've enjoyed it generally but I think it was quite flawed at times, i.e. I ahve mixed feelings about the Marc arc. I don't know. Maybe I should listen to more of Big Finish's latest content to understand. I've heard Forty which I see so much dislike for whereas I thought it was really good. Check out my reviews of the box set. wf92sblog.wordpress.com/2022/01/24/secrets-of-telos/wf92sblog.wordpress.com/2022/01/26/god-of-war/Sorry if I came across as unfair to this forum. I hope you find what I've said fair enough.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2022 22:34:58 GMT
Personal observation: I'm not sure where you're from Williamsfan, but there is a cultural divide that I have noticed that could be colouring your perception. As someone who is first generation not British (as in, I'm the first of my mother's family to be born and raised elsewhere), and living 'next door' to America, I often feel like an outside observer of Americans and Brits. And I've noticed that Americans have a tendency to be excessively positive when talking about things that they like (no matter whether they actually like it just a bit, or actually love it to death), while Brits tend to be overly negative talking about a thing, whether they enjoyed it or not. Neither one of these positions quite lands for me: I seem to earn eyerolls both from American friends who find me overly critical of things, and from British friends who think I'm too easily pleased. It's not specific to this forum, or Big Finish, or even Doctor Who, it's something I've seen across a lot of entertainment media. And I certainly don't mean to exclude myself from either of those tracks--being of recent UK background and living in Canada, I'm sure I've fallen into each on many many occasions--it's just something that I picked up on some time ago on a subconscious level, which took me a while to figure out on a conscious level. Once upon a time I even found the old BF forums a little repellent because it seemed to me like everybody hated everything, and I didn't see much point in participating where everyone (seemed to) hate the things I liked. After a while though, I more consciously worked out what it was I was really seeing, have found that I better understand that people don't quite mean to be as giddy/harsh as I first found them to be, it's just that people from different cultural upbringings talk in different ways. It's just a case of learning how to really read what you're reading, so to speak. I am English. I feel easily pleased sometimes, but I do take exceptions.
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Post by Kestrel on Feb 21, 2022 0:00:00 GMT
To an extent, it's all pretty relative. The thing about Big Finish, the biggest thing, is that there's really quite a lot of it. I can't comment on Forty as I haven't listened to it yet, but when there are so many stories out there, the very best ones are going to push peoples' expectations higher. When a 5th Doctor story disappoints, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad story--but that it's overshadowed by (many) better stories. And in the case of Forty, I can at least point out that the preceding 5th Doctor release, The Lost Resort and Other Stories was really good. At 17 MRs, you've barely scratched the surface. And for what it's worth (IMO, of course) very few Big Finish stories are actually "bad" -- for the most part the worst you'll find is, "just okay," whereas the best? Utterly spectacular. I don't think you should worry too much about listening to the "latest content." One of the great benefits of the sheer volume of stories we're talking about here is that you can just let the "test of time" filter out the best of the best. I would definitely advise simply following the path recommendations send you on, as well as your own tastes.
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Post by BHTvsTFC on Feb 21, 2022 19:06:06 GMT
I'm going to add the new Survivors box sets to the much loved pile too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2022 15:16:07 GMT
Harking back to here, I still feel as if some people are being a bit unfair to Big Finish lately. I wouldn't say they're being toxic and I regret saying that when I first created this thread, but I often feel as though the negative side of Big Finish is also that's ever talked about on this forum. I'm not saying people aren't allowed to criticise Big Finish, but it does feel a bit much a lot of the time.
I do always try to justify myself when showcasing my opinions, but I'm afraid it doesn't always work out. I personally don't have a problem with the new Big Finish slogan and ident, and it might not be universally hated as I know a couple of people that like it. But that's just my opinion. If you guys think I'm not justifying myself, which I hope isn't the case, I will understand.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 18, 2022 15:46:26 GMT
Its just an odd way of doing business "We Need to Change Prices on a Date but we're not going to tell you how much by till that date". I also don't imagine they won't put new pre orders online in the meantime. which means as I posted elsewhere the best thing for the Customer to do now, is ideally to wait till October 31st 2022, Oder everything they want, in the theory it would still be better value then buying from the 1st November with the price increase.
EDIT
In fact the Website News Piece has been updated along those lines
However, no product price increases will come into effect until 01 November 2022 and none of these will affect the cost of already-released box sets. In short: if you would like to pre-order forthcoming releases at 2022 prices, you should do so before this date.
Regards
mark687
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Post by kipperserver on Jun 18, 2022 17:54:51 GMT
Its just an odd way of doing business "We Need to Change Prices on a Date but we're not going to tell you how much by till that date". I also don't imagine they won't put new pre orders online in the meantime. which means as I posted elsewhere the best thing for the Customer to do now, is ideally to wait till October 31st 2022, Oder everything they want, in the theory it would still be better value then buying from the 1st November with the price increase. EDIT In fact the Website News Piece has been updated along those lines However, no product price increases will come into effect until 01 November 2022 and none of these will affect the cost of already-released box sets. In short: if you would like to pre-order forthcoming releases at 2022 prices, you should do so before this date. Regards mark687 Been thinking about this. Not withstanding the points about international discrepancies over prices in Australia and US (and the other points Shallacatop made), they could have just put the prices up and not made an annoncement. At least this way we have a chance to save some ££££s on pre-orders. If they said prices going up then didn't announce any more boxsets till Novermber 1st, we;l'd complain about that. If they announce new boxsets now we complain that their forcing us to pre-order them before Novemebr 1st. They can't win. (I still think they are doing the Boris JHohnson trick of announcing a policy on a Friday and then reading the reaction to it over the weekend before announcing a differnt policy on Monday.)
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Post by bonehead on Jun 18, 2022 18:09:29 GMT
Harking back to here, I still feel as if some people are being a bit unfair to Big Finish lately. I wouldn't say they're being toxic and I regret saying that when I first created this thread, but I often feel as though the negative side of Big Finish is also that's ever talked about on this forum. I'm not saying people aren't allowed to criticise Big Finish, but it does feel a bit much a lot of the time. I do always try to justify myself when showcasing my opinions, but I'm afraid it doesn't always work out. I personally don't have a problem with the new Big Finish slogan and ident, and it might not be universally hated as I know a couple of people that like it. But that's just my opinion. If you guys think I'm not justifying myself, which I hope isn't the case, I will understand. Regarding the prices, I think BF have done pretty well keeping things fairly regularly priced since they begun - over 20 years ago! Weren't the double cassettes about £15, or have I got that wrong? I trust them well enough to feel sure any price rises have been absorbed by the company for quite a while, and passing it on the the customer is a decision not taken lightly.
I've been pretty vocal about this new tagline they have adopted, but if the only complaint I have is a 3 second slogan, then they're doing pretty well as far as I'm concerned. Having said that, the tagline really does make my teeth itch!
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Post by muckypup on Jun 18, 2022 18:34:28 GMT
for me who has been with BF since the beginning i do feel that they have dropped the ball somewhat last 5 years, there have been stand outs but the obsession with boxes stops any one thing being brilliant, as you might get 2 ok tales then one brilliant one. if we look at the old monthly range, spare parts would have been great but bundled with ...ish & the rapture would have taken the shine off it. 8th doctor has suffered from over long 4 box epics making the casual listen think twice...and some very badly thought out things like the continuation of torchwood, stranded, class, time lord victorious to name a few
i think the adjustments to stand alone tales is a good one, and having things like out of time being self contained stories worked well..... so although i miss the monthly single tale release.....i think the reset is an ok one.....but would much rather of had a monthly range subscription for smaller tales across the ranges...
so i think bundling everything up makes people more critical cause they often paying for tales that they don't enjoy. also we have had a lot of big finish now after 20 years and the benchmark & expectations get higher.
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Post by Digi on Jun 18, 2022 18:42:40 GMT
for me who has been with BF since the beginning i do feel that they have dropped the ball somewhat last 5 years, there have been stand outs but the obsession with boxes stops any one thing being brilliant, as you might get 2 ok tales then one brilliant one. if we look at the old monthly range, spare parts would have been great but bundled with ...ish & the rapture would have taken the shine off it. 8th doctor has suffered from over long 4 box epics making the casual listen think twice...and some very badly thought out things like the continuation of torchwood, stranded, class, time lord victorious to name a few i think the adjustments to stand alone tales is a good one, and having things like out of time being self contained stories worked well..... so although i miss the monthly single tale release.....i think the reset is an ok one.....but would much rather of had a monthly range subscription for smaller tales across the ranges... so i think bundling everything up makes people more critical cause they often paying for tales that they don't enjoy. also we have had a lot of big finish now after 20 years and the benchmark & expectations get higher. That's an interesting point, I hadn't really considered it in that way before. I don't know that it's a primary concern of mine, but now that I've seen it written out by you so clearly, I realize that this has been the case for me on a number of occasions.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 18, 2022 21:13:26 GMT
for me who has been with BF since the beginning i do feel that they have dropped the ball somewhat last 5 years, there have been stand outs but the obsession with boxes stops any one thing being brilliant, as you might get 2 ok tales then one brilliant one. if we look at the old monthly range, spare parts would have been great but bundled with ...ish & the rapture would have taken the shine off it. 8th doctor has suffered from over long 4 box epics making the casual listen think twice... and some very badly thought out things like the continuation of torchwood, stranded, class, time lord victorious to name a fewi think the adjustments to stand alone tales is a good one, and having things like out of time being self contained stories worked well..... so although i miss the monthly single tale release.....i think the reset is an ok one.....but would much rather of had a monthly range subscription for smaller tales across the ranges... so i think bundling everything up makes people more critical cause they often paying for tales that they don't enjoy. also we have had a lot of big finish now after 20 years and the benchmark & expectations get higher.i’ll part company with you on Torchwood. I’ve had quite a bit of BF fatigue the past few years and the standalone, one & done nature of the Torchwood monthly releases usually pulls me back in. I’m both surprised & thrilled that monthly Torchwood remains a thing for BF. That is the aspect of the equation that threads like this don’t really account for. We bought something in good faith and if we have any rights connected to that, it is the right to express our opinion on whatever audio we’ve listened to. We have the right to view said audio in a critical light and judge it accordingly. And the same thing goes for Big Finish in general. I don’t think anyone here buys a audio hoping it will suck or that it will not be what we want it to be. We want to enjoy what we purchase. And if we don’t, and let’s face, someone somewhere is not going to like something, we should be able to express that. I do think some people around here personalize BF a little too much, like a production they don’t like is some sort of personal affront to their existence but thankfully there aren’t many like that around here. Conversely I think there are some who seem to have a problem when anyone gets upset about something BF has done and expresses their displeasure. At the end of the day we are all here gathered together talking about a company that produces things which give us pleasure and has worth in our eyes.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 18, 2022 21:54:31 GMT
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Post by muckypup on Jun 18, 2022 22:14:58 GMT
for me who has been with BF since the beginning i do feel that they have dropped the ball somewhat last 5 years, there have been stand outs but the obsession with boxes stops any one thing being brilliant, as you might get 2 ok tales then one brilliant one. if we look at the old monthly range, spare parts would have been great but bundled with ...ish & the rapture would have taken the shine off it. 8th doctor has suffered from over long 4 box epics making the casual listen think twice... and some very badly thought out things like the continuation of torchwood, stranded, class, time lord victorious to name a fewi think the adjustments to stand alone tales is a good one, and having things like out of time being self contained stories worked well..... so although i miss the monthly single tale release.....i think the reset is an ok one.....but would much rather of had a monthly range subscription for smaller tales across the ranges... so i think bundling everything up makes people more critical cause they often paying for tales that they don't enjoy. also we have had a lot of big finish now after 20 years and the benchmark & expectations get higher.i’ll part company with you on Torchwood. I’ve had quite a bit of BF fatigue the past few years and the standalone, one & done nature of the Torchwood monthly releases usually pulls me back in. I’m both surprised & thrilled that monthly Torchwood remains a thing for BF. That is the aspect of the equation that threads like this don’t really account for. We bought something in good faith and if we have any rights connected to that, it is the right to express our opinion on whatever audio we’ve listened to. We have the right to view said audio in a critical light and judge it accordingly. And the same thing goes for Big Finish in general. I don’t think anyone here buys a audio hoping it will suck or that it will not be what we want it to be. We want to enjoy what we purchase. And if we don’t, and let’s face, someone somewhere is not going to like something, we should be able to express that. I do think some people around here personalize BF a little too much, like a production they don’t like is some sort of personal affront to their existence but thankfully there aren’t many like that around here. Conversely I think there are some who seem to have a problem when anyone gets upset about something BF has done and expresses their displeasure. At the end of the day we are all here gathered together talking about a company that produces things which give us pleasure and has worth in our eyes. i wasn't referring to the monthly single tales there fine the ones i listened too more the awful way they continued in the "story continues" releases....aliens/gods among us.....
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