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Post by Max The Autist on Apr 7, 2022 14:25:23 GMT
Why do I have a feeling that most of the ones are from people being upset about them actually tacking COVID? Or better yet, just from people reading about it and not even listening to it.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 7, 2022 14:49:22 GMT
Why do I have a feeling that most of the ones are from people being upset about them actually tacking COVID? Or better yet, just from people reading about it and not even listening to it. Hope its alright to comment like this but At least 1 of those may be from 1 of the Posters who have personally lost someone to COVID, the tackling of the Subject was always going to be delicate for them, and BF perhaps should've been more transparent that they going to it as a Arc Finale but also head on in a real life drama way, but the way the Doctor is absent from the story to achieve that feels awkward and not in keeping with the show. As to the ending your back to being in keeping with a show and a upbeat feel-good as opposed to just a hopeful one which may've been more appropriate given the tone of the EP. Regards mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2022 15:23:05 GMT
Well, the last words of this set, after two residents of the flats at Baker Street died of COVID are "2021 is gonna be the best year ever" which I found crass as all hell considering that January 2021 was the worst spike in deaths since the first wave. Helen even has a line about how people should remember "we came through it together" like everything was OK when the new years bells tolled. I mean, there is a lot of it that is sensitively handled but since they said "no, this is escapism, so if Stranded 2020 is not like ours..so be it" from Day 1 of this series to now do this? Really horrible. I dont need "Its just a cough, he should be fine". Certainly dont need The Doctor to say "I cant interfere because I would want to cure it...so I am just gonna live in the TARDIS for 9 months..bye" Only to turn up for a party on the roof at New Years. Jesus...tone deaf does not even cover it. Quite frankly I think you're taking the wrong things from this. Liv has no idea what's to come, but she's with the love of her life, so it's going to be the best year ever anyway. Also nobody knew that things would continue to get worse throughout 2021, we all thought we would have a better time post-2020, that is accurate. The entire story is accurate. And the box set provided it's other 2020, it just ended with a reminder that sometimes things do go bad and nothing can be done by the likes of the Doctor. He wanted to do so much the entire story, and he's constantly been prevented from interfering or it goes wrong. In the end he comes back for the celebration because like everyone else he thinks making it through 2020 was a victory worth celebrating, like we all did. This is a great story, one that very much is filled with the real and painful, but to it's advantage. I'm sorry for what you went through as well, Timelord007, and I can see why anything COVID related would be something for you to avoid, but just let it be known that Davy here is misrepresenting this final episode. It is not crass, it is not tone deaf, it is beautiful. It frankly breaks my heart more than anything that you somehow don't realize that the residents of Baker's Street are just like we were. That their optimism isn't bad writing, but accurate to what so many of us felt at the end of 2020. They don't know the future, they just think they've made it through hell. And that's good enough for them. "We didn't know things would continue to get worse". Yes we did. Thats why there was a Christmas 2020 lockdown. We knew exactly that early 2021 was to be a massive spike. And this whole "they dont know the future", well John did when writing. BF did when releasing. There is a reason DW and BF dont incorporate real world events into the property and its stuff like this. As for "they dont know the future"? If only one of them was from the future and was in a time machine even after COVID took her by apparent surprise eh? That would offer some rather helpful foresight. And dont tell me Im misrepresenting anything when all you do is offer a subjective "its beautiful". 2 years to sell millions of deaths worldwide as entertainment. But some say we cant recast actors after 25... It is crass. It is tone deaf and beauty is in the blah blah. It was BF themselves who said they would not be reflecting COVID as it was too personal and too soon when asked if "stranded in 2020" suddenly meant a change in plans Millions didn't make it through hell, and those left behind still live that hell every minute of every day. So I dont care if its "good enough" for fictional characters. It isn't for me.
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Post by thewatcher on Apr 7, 2022 15:37:47 GMT
Well, the last words of this set, after two residents of the flats at Baker Street died of COVID are "2021 is gonna be the best year ever" which I found crass as all hell considering that January 2021 was the worst spike in deaths since the first wave. Helen even has a line about how people should remember "we came through it together" like everything was OK when the new years bells tolled. I mean, there is a lot of it that is sensitively handled but since they said "no, this is escapism, so if Stranded 2020 is not like ours..so be it" from Day 1 of this series to now do this? Really horrible. I dont need "Its just a cough, he should be fine". Certainly dont need The Doctor to say "I cant interfere because I would want to cure it...so I am just gonna live in the TARDIS for 9 months..bye" Only to turn up for a party on the roof at New Years. Jesus...tone deaf does not even cover it. Quite frankly I think you're taking the wrong things from this. Liv has no idea what's to come, but she's with the love of her life, so it's going to be the best year ever anyway. Also nobody knew that things would continue to get worse throughout 2021, we all thought we would have a better time post-2020, that is accurate. The entire story is accurate. And the box set provided it's other 2020, it just ended with a reminder that sometimes things do go bad and nothing can be done by the likes of the Doctor. He wanted to do so much the entire story, and he's constantly been prevented from interfering or it goes wrong. In the end he comes back for the celebration because like everyone else he thinks making it through 2020 was a victory worth celebrating, like we all did. This is a great story, one that very much is filled with the real and painful, but to it's advantage. I'm sorry for what you went through as well, Timelord007, and I can see why anything COVID related would be something for you to avoid, but just let it be known that Davy here is misrepresenting this final episode. It is not crass, it is not tone deaf, it is beautiful. It frankly breaks my heart more than anything that you somehow don't realize that the residents of Baker's Street are just like we were. That their optimism isn't bad writing, but accurate to what so many of us felt at the end of 2020. They don't know the future, they just think they've made it through hell. And that's good enough for them. Quite frankly no those who dislike this story because COVID plot and it being used are not taking wrong things from it. who was optimistic at end 2020 we all knew things were not over this is a real misjudged story everyone involved neds to think about it a bit more because Big Finish have lied to us all they are liars. This boxset is now forever tainted for those that may have been really enjoying it can someone from Big Finish apologies.
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Post by BHTvsTFC on Apr 7, 2022 18:03:01 GMT
I didn't mind it myself, and I've had my own COVID scare this week. I'm registered as clinically vulnerable and would/will be in serious trouble if/when I get it. I didn't take offence at the topic appearing. That said the episode in question felt a little bit average compared to the previous three, which were pretty solid for the most part. As for the recent past I'd love to see a story set during austerity where the Doctor is up against a politician or two, whilst helping out in a food bank. {Spoiler} I think there will be more Liv and Helen stories, tho maybe just the odd box set rather than the four set arcs. The leaving device has been used before for Marc and older Nyssa and it suggested to me that something might have happened to Helen in the interim. I'm just glad that we didn't have Draconians, Daleks, Cybermen, Ogrons, Judoon or Mark Bonnar turn up at the end. I didn't mind the much maligned Robin either; I'm always sympathetic to angsty teenagers as I used to be one myself, and am probably the most angsty person I still know, so it was nice to see things turn out okay for him in the end, even if he did wipe all of humanity. Come on, the Master has done far worse and the Doctor, especially the over optimistic Eighth, has always welcomed him/her back with no hard feelings!
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Post by Max The Autist on Apr 7, 2022 18:23:54 GMT
Quite frankly I think you're taking the wrong things from this. Liv has no idea what's to come, but she's with the love of her life, so it's going to be the best year ever anyway. Also nobody knew that things would continue to get worse throughout 2021, we all thought we would have a better time post-2020, that is accurate. The entire story is accurate. And the box set provided it's other 2020, it just ended with a reminder that sometimes things do go bad and nothing can be done by the likes of the Doctor. He wanted to do so much the entire story, and he's constantly been prevented from interfering or it goes wrong. In the end he comes back for the celebration because like everyone else he thinks making it through 2020 was a victory worth celebrating, like we all did. This is a great story, one that very much is filled with the real and painful, but to it's advantage. I'm sorry for what you went through as well, Timelord007, and I can see why anything COVID related would be something for you to avoid, but just let it be known that Davy here is misrepresenting this final episode. It is not crass, it is not tone deaf, it is beautiful. It frankly breaks my heart more than anything that you somehow don't realize that the residents of Baker's Street are just like we were. That their optimism isn't bad writing, but accurate to what so many of us felt at the end of 2020. They don't know the future, they just think they've made it through hell. And that's good enough for them. "We didn't know things would continue to get worse". Yes we did. Thats why there was a Christmas 2020 lockdown. We knew exactly that early 2021 was to be a massive spike. And this whole "they dont know the future", well John did when writing. BF did when releasing. There is a reason DW and BF dont incorporate real world events into the property and its stuff like this. As for "they dont know the future"? If only one of them was from the future and was in a time machine even after COVID took her by apparent surprise eh? That would offer some rather helpful foresight. And dont tell me Im misrepresenting anything when all you do is offer a subjective "its beautiful". 2 years to sell millions of deaths worldwide as entertainment. But some say we cant recast actors after 25... It is crass. It is tone deaf and beauty is in the blah blah. It was BF themselves who said they would not be reflecting COVID as it was too personal and too soon when asked if "stranded in 2020" suddenly meant a change in plans Millions didn't make it through hell, and those left behind still live that hell every minute of every day. So I dont care if its "good enough" for fictional characters. It isn't for me. If my argument that it's beautiful is subjective then your argument that it's crass is too.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 7, 2022 18:25:58 GMT
Putting aside the bad faith speculation on voters’ motives (they’re free to pick whatever number they want), I wouldn’t say they tackled Covid.
Big Finish depicted the pandemic sure, but Best Year Ever does not say anything substantive about the pandemic beyond “2020 was a bad and weird time” and including nods to real things that happened. It’s similar to The Five People You Kill in Middlesbrough which dealt with various gripes of politicians’ handling of the pandemic, albeit somewhat veiled, but ultimately said nothing more than “those politicians sucked didn’t they”. Having had a day to reflect on it, my main thought is I don’t get why John Dorney gambled on this decision. The lockdown storyline doesn’t reveal anything about the Doctor, as he just goes and sulks in the TARDIS, and Liv and Helen remain unchanged, especially as Liv’s final decision is not actually informed by the events of Best Year Ever but seemingly by the mysterious unseen travels (coming soon to Big Finish production circa 2025, probably). I don’t have many medias to compare this depiction of the pandemic to (cos I have only seen two TV shows that have acknowledged the pandemic happening), but to go with Casualty. There the episode dedicated to the pandemic was not only vital to the show (as it’s about contemporary healthcare so to ignore it would be at odds with the premise) but was used to show how the fictional characters involved were profoundly impacted by events. There was a point, whereas I’m not sure what point Best Year Ever is making. Be blindly optimistic I guess? And equally it’s not like Who really had to acknowledge the pandemic, certainly TV Who hasn’t.
I didn’t find Big Finish depicting the pandemic as much of a line crossed as others, though I completely understand why it’s a line crossed for them, and found the story an oddly gentle listen. But on reflection I just think it was nothing revelatory and as such I’m not sure this angle was worth the risk.
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Post by Max The Autist on Apr 7, 2022 18:28:31 GMT
Quite frankly I think you're taking the wrong things from this. Liv has no idea what's to come, but she's with the love of her life, so it's going to be the best year ever anyway. Also nobody knew that things would continue to get worse throughout 2021, we all thought we would have a better time post-2020, that is accurate. The entire story is accurate. And the box set provided it's other 2020, it just ended with a reminder that sometimes things do go bad and nothing can be done by the likes of the Doctor. He wanted to do so much the entire story, and he's constantly been prevented from interfering or it goes wrong. In the end he comes back for the celebration because like everyone else he thinks making it through 2020 was a victory worth celebrating, like we all did. This is a great story, one that very much is filled with the real and painful, but to it's advantage. I'm sorry for what you went through as well, Timelord007, and I can see why anything COVID related would be something for you to avoid, but just let it be known that Davy here is misrepresenting this final episode. It is not crass, it is not tone deaf, it is beautiful. It frankly breaks my heart more than anything that you somehow don't realize that the residents of Baker's Street are just like we were. That their optimism isn't bad writing, but accurate to what so many of us felt at the end of 2020. They don't know the future, they just think they've made it through hell. And that's good enough for them. Quite frankly no those who dislike this story because COVID plot and it being used are not taking wrong things from it. who was optimistic at end 2020 we all knew things were not over this is a real misjudged story everyone involved neds to think about it a bit more because Big Finish have lied to us all they are liars. This boxset is now forever tainted for those that may have been really enjoying it can someone from Big Finish apologies. Big finish owes neither you or anybody else an apology, and they did not lie. Hell, the marketing for this box set explicitly stated that it would bring us into lockdown as soon as the marketing COULD. The 2020 of Stranded WAS different, but it didn't STAY different, and they never promised it would, besides, plans change, they saw an opportunity for a great story and they took it. This series is not tainted, and this was not misjudged, maybe to you it is, but you don't speak for everyone. And yeah, we knew things weren't over, but we thought we had managed the worst of it, we liked the idea of that, we liked the idea that tomorrow would be better, that 2020 was cursed, that a new year would make things easier. Once again, you don't speak for everyone, and neither do I, but a whole hell of a lot of people had hope for 2021.
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Post by Max The Autist on Apr 7, 2022 18:39:58 GMT
Just realized, since we're all so busy talking about the COVID stuff... THE CURATOR!! {Spoiler} Guys, like, let's talk about this: We basically have proper confirmation that the Curator IS the Doctor and that the Curator is quite possibly a little... unstable... my current theory is that the Curator changes between different 'aspects' as he put it to fit different needs. The six aspect is far more willing to interfere and be direct, whilst the fourth aspect is far more subtle and mostly relies on well chosen words to push people to do the right thing or realize what needs to be realized. Honestly, this makes me really excited. The idea of another curator bugged me some, but I assumed it was going to be caused by the paradoxical insanity going on, but this proves neither option to be correct and leaves me really really hyped. One curator, swapping aspects, like the eleven but far more literal and stable, each aspect separated, seemingly not overlapping or interrupting, just sometimes one, sometimes the other, whatever is needed. I hope we see more of the curator's aspects in the future! Imagine a 7 curator or a 5 curator!! That would just be so cool, and seeing the way that those aspects apply themselves to the curator base would just be so fun! I mean, the manipulativeness of 7 mixed with the manipulativeness that seems to be just a part of the Curator!! That's just a recipe for something magical!
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Post by BHTvsTFC on Apr 7, 2022 18:51:10 GMT
^ Imagine the Doctor meeting his equivalent Curator!
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 7, 2022 19:37:38 GMT
What happened to "we are not set in the real 2020, I think we all need a respite from real world tragedies and its all too soon" when BF were asked if COVID would be part of the Stranded arc? Pretty pissed off, frankly, that this hit so close to home and worse, back to the really bad times of the pandemic. Timelord007 I would avoid this if you are feelin as down as you have been. Was kinda into this set until the set started this crap. So 2 years is how long to wait before exploitation of real life suffering from people. I look forward to the Ukraine invasion boxset in 2024. Will not dignify this with a review. Yeah. It feels totally tone deaf, at odds with what BF had said about the box sets previously and completely misguided. I’m usually one to say everything & anything is fair game but give those of us still dealing with the deaths of friends & loved ones….not to mention the depression that evolves out of those losses a warning. This is just too soon.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 7, 2022 20:06:52 GMT
Art Poster
Regards
mark687
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Post by Timelord007 on Apr 8, 2022 0:53:55 GMT
Quite frankly I think you're taking the wrong things from this. Liv has no idea what's to come, but she's with the love of her life, so it's going to be the best year ever anyway. Also nobody knew that things would continue to get worse throughout 2021, we all thought we would have a better time post-2020, that is accurate. The entire story is accurate. And the box set provided it's other 2020, it just ended with a reminder that sometimes things do go bad and nothing can be done by the likes of the Doctor. He wanted to do so much the entire story, and he's constantly been prevented from interfering or it goes wrong. In the end he comes back for the celebration because like everyone else he thinks making it through 2020 was a victory worth celebrating, like we all did. This is a great story, one that very much is filled with the real and painful, but to it's advantage. I'm sorry for what you went through as well, Timelord007, and I can see why anything COVID related would be something for you to avoid, but just let it be known that Davy here is misrepresenting this final episode. It is not crass, it is not tone deaf, it is beautiful. It frankly breaks my heart more than anything that you somehow don't realize that the residents of Baker's Street are just like we were. That their optimism isn't bad writing, but accurate to what so many of us felt at the end of 2020. They don't know the future, they just think they've made it through hell. And that's good enough for them. "We didn't know things would continue to get worse". Yes we did. Thats why there was a Christmas 2020 lockdown. We knew exactly that early 2021 was to be a massive spike. And this whole "they dont know the future", well John did when writing. BF did when releasing. There is a reason DW and BF dont incorporate real world events into the property and its stuff like this. As for "they dont know the future"? If only one of them was from the future and was in a time machine even after COVID took her by apparent surprise eh? That would offer some rather helpful foresight. And dont tell me Im misrepresenting anything when all you do is offer a subjective "its beautiful". 2 years to sell millions of deaths worldwide as entertainment. But some say we cant recast actors after 25... It is crass. It is tone deaf and beauty is in the blah blah. It was BF themselves who said they would not be reflecting COVID as it was too personal and too soon when asked if "stranded in 2020" suddenly meant a change in plans Millions didn't make it through hell, and those left behind still live that hell every minute of every day. So I dont care if its "good enough" for fictional characters. It isn't for me. Well said Davy, you & i both lost loved ones to this awful illness & don't want to hear Covid related stories in our audio dramas. I listen to Big Finish for escapism from the real world not to be reminded of what covid did to me & my family, it killed my dad & very nearly killed me, i like @davygallagher will never fully recover from my loss as the depression of not being able be with my dad during his final days because of lockdown & being infected myself has broken me the anger, rage & guilt i feel has ripped something out of me I'll never get back. I'm glad now i didn't continue with this particular series which i found dull to begin with.
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Post by thewatcher on Apr 8, 2022 0:56:39 GMT
Quite frankly no those who dislike this story because COVID plot and it being used are not taking wrong things from it. who was optimistic at end 2020 we all knew things were not over this is a real misjudged story everyone involved neds to think about it a bit more because Big Finish have lied to us all they are liars. This boxset is now forever tainted for those that may have been really enjoying it can someone from Big Finish apologies. Big finish owes neither you or anybody else an apology, and they did not lie. Hell, the marketing for this box set explicitly stated that it would bring us into lockdown as soon as the marketing COULD. The 2020 of Stranded WAS different, but it didn't STAY different, and they never promised it would, besides, plans change, they saw an opportunity for a great story and they took it. This series is not tainted, and this was not misjudged, maybe to you it is, but you don't speak for everyone. And yeah, we knew things weren't over, but we thought we had managed the worst of it, we liked the idea of that, we liked the idea that tomorrow would be better, that 2020 was cursed, that a new year would make things easier. Once again, you don't speak for everyone, and neither do I, but a whole hell of a lot of people had hope for 2021. No you are wrong 100%, shame you for your wrong thought
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Post by Max The Autist on Apr 8, 2022 1:04:51 GMT
Big finish owes neither you or anybody else an apology, and they did not lie. Hell, the marketing for this box set explicitly stated that it would bring us into lockdown as soon as the marketing COULD. The 2020 of Stranded WAS different, but it didn't STAY different, and they never promised it would, besides, plans change, they saw an opportunity for a great story and they took it. This series is not tainted, and this was not misjudged, maybe to you it is, but you don't speak for everyone. And yeah, we knew things weren't over, but we thought we had managed the worst of it, we liked the idea of that, we liked the idea that tomorrow would be better, that 2020 was cursed, that a new year would make things easier. Once again, you don't speak for everyone, and neither do I, but a whole hell of a lot of people had hope for 2021. No you are wrong 100%, shame you for your wrong thought I'm going to work under the assumption that this is sarcasm/ a joke... if not, then I don't even WANT to deal with this... if you actually believe this then I am just frankly saddened. Deeply.
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Post by Max The Autist on Apr 8, 2022 1:30:23 GMT
What happened to "we are not set in the real 2020, I think we all need a respite from real world tragedies and its all too soon" when BF were asked if COVID would be part of the Stranded arc? Pretty pissed off, frankly, that this hit so close to home and worse, back to the really bad times of the pandemic. Timelord007 I would avoid this if you are feelin as down as you have been. Was kinda into this set until the set started this crap. So 2 years is how long to wait before exploitation of real life suffering from people. I look forward to the Ukraine invasion boxset in 2024. Will not dignify this with a review. Yeah. It feels totally tone deaf, at odds with what BF had said about the box sets previously and completely misguided. I’m usually one to say everything & anything is fair game but give those of us still dealing with the deaths of friends & loved ones….not to mention the depression that evolves out of those losses a warning. This is just too soon. They gave a warning as soon as they could. They should probably have put one on the track itself, probably mentioned it in Vortex even if it was spoilers, but they absolutely gave warning in the release news post, with Paul saying "... Best Year Ever will be a record of how people lived through lockdown," and with Matt Fitton saying that "Doctor Who is often a way to escape the real world, and for most of this series, that's just what the Doctor and friends did – away from the real 2020, stranded in a very different timeline. But in the end they – and we – had to come back." Not to mention that the description for the episode begins with "What happens if the world is actually fixed? There are times when even the Doctor cannot help," and it's set in 2020... I honestly don't know how people could be blindsided by this, and even so I sympathize with the people who were, I sympathize with people who think it's too soon and who don't want to listen to the story or who listened and were hurt, but while I understand and sympathize, none of this makes the story bad or 'tone deaf.' Also where is that quote from, not doubting it's existence, but I hunted it down and couldn't find it and at this point I'm questioning my sanity.
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 8, 2022 1:30:29 GMT
Why do I have a feeling that most of the ones are from people being upset about them actually tacking COVID? Or better yet, just from people reading about it and not even listening to it. Or maybe there are people that thought vol 4 utterly sucked Just a thought
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Post by masterdoctor on Apr 8, 2022 1:32:11 GMT
Jumping in, but Davy and Timelord have lost their family members to COVID and this is a very raw subject and their reactions are completely fair. It's also fair to be ok with the story. Please respect each other and refrain from condescension, rudeness etc.
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Post by Max The Autist on Apr 8, 2022 1:33:26 GMT
Why do I have a feeling that most of the ones are from people being upset about them actually tacking COVID? Or better yet, just from people reading about it and not even listening to it. Or maybe there are people that thought vol 4 utterly sucked Just a thought Honestly not a thought that had crossed my mind given that it's honestly the same quality as the rest of the series if not better, but there have been people who disliked the range overall... but honestly, you and I both know that that's almost certainly not where the FOUR 1/5s came from. Not with multiple people in here so upset over the finale. I'm pretty sure that at least half of the 1s are from them, and they are completely within their rights to rate an entire volume based solely on a finale that they don't like. I disagree with the concept, but they are within their rights.
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Post by Max The Autist on Apr 8, 2022 1:34:55 GMT
Jumping in, but Davy and Timelord have lost their family members to COVID and this is a very raw subject and their reactions are completely fair. It's also fair to be ok with the story. Please respect each other and refrain from condescension, rudeness etc. I'm not trying to be rude, apologies if it has come across that way.
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