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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 8, 2022 1:41:28 GMT
Jumping in, but Davy and Timelord have lost their family members to COVID and this is a very raw subject and their reactions are completely fair. It's also fair to be ok with the story. Please respect each other and refrain from condescension, rudeness etc. My loss doesn’t compete with either Davy or Timelord’s but yeah, I was friends or worked with 13 people who died of either covid or complications due to covid. I’ve seriously considered suicide a couple of times over the past two years and I still have days of crushing depression. The reaction to this is visceral for me. Thank goodness this was spoiled for me and i can only imagine the reaction if I had gone in cold.So tone deaf is what I’m sticking with. Too song, at least for me, still applies. Something more should have been done to warn people.
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Post by masterdoctor on Apr 8, 2022 2:01:04 GMT
Jumping in, but Davy and Timelord have lost their family members to COVID and this is a very raw subject and their reactions are completely fair. It's also fair to be ok with the story. Please respect each other and refrain from condescension, rudeness etc. My loss doesn’t compete with either Davy or Timelord’s but yeah, I was friends or worked with 13 people who died of either covid or complications due to covid. I’ve seriously considered suicide a couple of times over the past two years and I still have days of crushing depression. The reaction to this is visceral for me. Thank goodness this was spoiled for me and i can only imagine the reaction if I had gone in cold.So tone deaf is what I’m sticking with. Too song, at least for me, still applies. Something more should have been done to warn people. And like I said, your reaction is completely fair. I understand, and my comment was only for people to have empathy to why reactions were the way they were.
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Post by Timelord007 on Apr 8, 2022 7:34:08 GMT
Jumping in, but Davy and Timelord have lost their family members to COVID and this is a very raw subject and their reactions are completely fair. It's also fair to be ok with the story. Please respect each other and refrain from condescension, rudeness etc. My loss doesn’t compete with either Davy or Timelord’s but yeah, I was friends or worked with 13 people who died of either covid or complications due to covid. I’ve seriously considered suicide a couple of times over the past two years and I still have days of crushing depression. The reaction to this is visceral for me. Thank goodness this was spoiled for me and i can only imagine the reaction if I had gone in cold.So tone deaf is what I’m sticking with. Too song, at least for me, still applies. Something more should have been done to warn people. Completely agree my friend, a simple "this boxset features links to the covid pandemic some may find distressing". I want escapism from real world events not to be reminded of them. Nobody understands the self destructive nature of depression until one experiences it for themselves, I'm sorry to hear you have been suffering from this terrible illness, i know only too well how painfully mentally exhausting & crippling depression leaves one.
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Post by shallacatop on Apr 8, 2022 11:33:39 GMT
Well, where do we start with that?
I didn't mind Crossed Lines too much. It tries to make sense of the previous two sets, which is no mean feat. Not sure it quite succeeds, especially now I've listened to the following stories, which revert back to the jumble, but it's a refreshing underplayed story that harks back to the first set. Get Andy I wasn't terribly keen on, I'm not interested in the character and I didn't like the cop out from the previous set so this feels like a complete waste of time that could've been avoided. The Keys of Baker Street just meanders, never knowing what it wants to do, or what it's going to do; Stranded in a nutshell, frankly.
I'm not sure about Colin as The Curator either. He plays it like an older Sixie, which I understand and he's pleasant enough, but I don't think it works. For me The Curator is the enigmatic twinkle and we simply don't spend enough time with the character to justify different faces and personas. It's a bit like doing a string of one-off Doctors; there's not enough there for it to ever be substantial. You just get the impression Tom wasn't available and Colin will do anything for a tenner.
And then Best Year Ever... what was that?! I read the thread with a great deal of interest prior to listening and could completely see both sides. For me, I have no issue with tackling COVID so soon, but given I have not been severely impacted by the pandemic, I consider myself to be in a fortunate position that perhaps isn't best qualified to say whether it should be tackled or not. What we get in Best Year Ever is utterly bizarre; what was everyone involved thinking?
For a kick off, it's not as risky as it was made out to be. It thinks it's being, which again could be Stranded in a nutshell, but the output is sloppy. I don't think it's intentional, but it certainly comes across as tone deaf and ignorant, I completely agree with that sentiment. It's a rose tinted view of the pandemic, going through the clichés of what lockdown was like for people. It doesn't address the suffering or even attempts to, which is its biggest sin. It reminds me of the debate many of us had when Scorched Earth was released. And I was of the view it was lazily handled because it just flipped the sides and didn't actually portray anything as morally grey or dubious. It's not even accurately handled; it's established the house was broken up into flats, yet we have all of the characters visiting one another throughout with no real thought about the rules in place. And then we finish off with a New Years party, when everyone was explicitly told to stay at home! Then we end on 2021 being the best year ever, when we all know full well the following weeks were some of the worst of the pandemic. The portrayal of the Doctor in it is just bizarre. Given how involved Paul McGann is with his Doctor, I'm surprised he didn't seem to have any issue with it in the behind the scenes. He seems to just go off and sulk. I appreciate he can't do anything about it, but I see no reason why he couldn't have either: A. Not been in the episode until the end; B. Hopped into the future to have a glimpse and then come back and be honest with the characters and reassure them; C. Actively help the local community and residents.
It's a shock to me that Big Finish not only went back on their initial promise that the series wouldn't touch upon COVID but this went through however many discussions, drafts and levels of approval and not one person went "oh, hang on, maybe we shouldn't do this or maybe we should rework to be a bit less crass". I'm not sure that it can be excused as none of the characters being aware because they're in 2020 when other historical stories go to great lengths to have the Doctor make reference or express remorse for the way events unfolded. I mean John Dorney did it himself in Monsters in Metropolis a few months ago!
COVID aside, I love the idea of the series finishing on an epilogue, but it's not that well handled or earned, really. The series got so far away from its premise that I think it would've been a big feat to have brought the ensemble back together to overcome both the indifference I've felt throughout and a satisfactory ending to whatever the hell unfolded in the prior 15 hours. Instead, we get such a jumbled ending where BF are trying to have their cake and eat it by providing a gap for further adventures with Liv and Helen and then opening up to the inevitable Robots successor and Liv no doubt cropping up left, right and centre in other spin-offs. I am so fatigued by the team that I can only hope it's something for BF to revisit at a later date and not a hint of a continuation in the upcoming sets.
What a rollercoaster Stranded was. And not in a good way, I'm saddened to say. Started off so refreshing and full of promise in the first series, to utter indifference in the second and third as it strays away from its premise, with the final set attempting to bring it back before abandoning it once again in favour of a finale that manages to both backpedal on a previous statement made by BF and be crass whilst they're at it.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 8, 2022 12:58:29 GMT
Well, where do we start with that? I didn't mind Crossed Lines too much. It tries to make sense of the previous two sets, which is no mean feat. Not sure it quite succeeds, especially now I've listened to the following stories, which revert back to the jumble, but it's a refreshing underplayed story that harks back to the first set. Get Andy I wasn't terribly keen on, I'm not interested in the character and I didn't like the cop out from the previous set so this feels like a complete waste of time that could've been avoided. The Keys of Baker Street just meanders, never knowing what it wants to do, or what it's going to do; Stranded in a nutshell, frankly. I'm not sure about Colin as The Curator either. He plays it like an older Sixie, which I understand and he's pleasant enough, but I don't think it works. For me The Curator is the enigmatic twinkle and we simply don't spend enough time with the character to justify different faces and personas. It's a bit like doing a string of one-off Doctors; there's not enough there for it to ever be substantial. You just get the impression Tom wasn't available and Colin will do anything for a tenner. And then Best Year Ever... what was that?! I read the thread with a great deal of interest prior to listening and could completely see both sides. For me, I have no issue with tackling COVID so soon, but given I have not been severely impacted by the pandemic, I consider myself to be in a fortunate position that perhaps isn't best qualified to say whether it should be tackled or not. What we get in Best Year Ever is utterly bizarre; what was everyone involved thinking? For a kick off, it's not as risky as it was made out to be. It thinks it's being, which again could be Stranded in a nutshell, but the output is sloppy. I don't think it's intentional, but it certainly comes across as tone deaf and ignorant, I completely agree with that sentiment. It's a rose tinted view of the pandemic, going through the clichés of what lockdown was like for people. It doesn't address the suffering or even attempts to, which is its biggest sin. It reminds me of the debate many of us had when Scorched Earth was released. And I was of the view it was lazily handled because it just flipped the sides and didn't actually portray anything as morally grey or dubious. It's not even accurately handled; it's established the house was broken up into flats, yet we have all of the characters visiting one another throughout with no real thought about the rules in place. And then we finish off with a New Years party, when everyone was explicitly told to stay at home! Then we end on 2021 being the best year ever, when we all know full well the following weeks were some of the worst of the pandemic. The portrayal of the Doctor in it is just bizarre. Given how involved Paul McGann is with his Doctor, I'm surprised he didn't seem to have any issue with it in the behind the scenes. He seems to just go off and sulk. I appreciate he can't do anything about it, but I see no reason why he couldn't have either: A. Not been in the episode until the end; B. Hopped into the future to have a glimpse and then come back and be honest with the characters and reassure them; C. Actively help the local community and residents. It's a shock to me that Big Finish not only went back on their initial promise that the series wouldn't touch upon COVID but this went through however many discussions, drafts and levels of approval and not one person went "oh, hang on, maybe we shouldn't do this or maybe we should rework to be a bit less crass". I'm not sure that it can be excused as none of the characters being aware because they're in 2020 when other historical stories go to great lengths to have the Doctor make reference or express remorse for the way events unfolded. I mean John Dorney did it himself in Monsters in Metropolis a few months ago! COVID aside, I love the idea of the series finishing on an epilogue, but it's not that well handled or earned, really. The series got so far away from its premise that I think it would've been a big feat to have brought the ensemble back together to overcome both the indifference I've felt throughout and a satisfactory ending to whatever the hell unfolded in the prior 15 hours. Instead, we get such a jumbled ending where BF are trying to have their cake and eat it by providing a gap for further adventures with Liv and Helen and then opening up to the inevitable Robots successor and Liv no doubt cropping up left, right and centre in other spin-offs. I am so fatigued by the team that I can only hope it's something for BF to revisit at a later date and not a hint of a continuation in the upcoming sets. What a rollercoaster Stranded was. And not in a good way, I'm saddened to say. Started off so refreshing and full of promise in the first series, to utter indifference in the second and third as it strays away from its premise, with the final set attempting to bring it back before abandoning it once again in favour of a finale that manages to both backpedal on a previous statement made by BF and be crass whilst they're at it. This is exactly my problem with Liv’s departure here. The way it’s done is so, so cowardly. Liv staying with Tania was the most obvious way to end her character’s travels and it seems Big Finish realised that, but they couldn’t dare commit to it. As a result it strips Best Year Ever of any significance, cos the events of the story changed nothing for Liv. She didn’t decide to stay off the back of this storyline she decided to stay because of mysterious unseen adventures. And we all know the reason these adventures are here, so they can milk this setup for even more boxsets. They’ve written the character out whilst simultaneously not writing her out. This is part of a broader problem I have with modern Big Finish; they cannot stomach the idea of an ending. All the ranges go on forever, even The Robots got extended despite having a time limit imposed on it by its premise. Characters no longer grow, change and move on - they just stay forever as they are. Big Finish loves the beginning and middle of stories - never the end. It’s cowardly writing. I agree about the riskiness point. John Dorney clearly thought he was being risky with Beat Year Ever (he talked about nothing else in the previews!) but aside from tackling a subject which some people regard as taboo, it’s just not. All that story does is just depict events we all experienced (except, as you say, a New Year’s party). Dorney gambled on this live wire subject matter, just for that? To compare this story to actually risky stories; I recently revisited Jubilee which gambled on being nasty and brutal, but does all that to furiously make it’s point, and it succeeds. What was the point Best Year Ever was making? Two days of pondering and I still don’t know.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 8, 2022 13:35:57 GMT
Realistically there was no chance of a negative outcome for Liv and Tania (imagine the Social Media Outcry if there had been), interestingly so far there hasn't anything but praise anywhere else for the direction the last Ep took. I would've thought like the series in itself seems too, it would've divided the broader opinion.
Regards
mark687
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Post by shallacatop on Apr 8, 2022 13:47:21 GMT
Realistically there was no chance of a negative outcome for Liv and Tania (imagine the Social Media Outcry if there had been), interestingly so far there hasn't anything but praise anywhere else for the direction the last Ep took. I would've thought like the series in itself seems too, it would've divided the broader opinion. Regards mark687 I don’t think anyone’s saying it should have had a negative outcome. The issue is that they didn’t solely commit to the clear outcome and instead had her bugger off for an unspecified period of time before coming back. Liv didn’t stay due to the events of Stranded, she’d said goodbye to Tania, she decides to stay due to an as of yet unheard adventure. If anything, it makes you question their compatibility because Liv is happy to leave Tania… until she isn’t.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 8, 2022 13:55:42 GMT
Realistically there was no chance of a negative outcome for Liv and Tania (imagine the Social Media Outcry if there had been), interestingly so far there hasn't anything but praise anywhere else for the direction the last Ep took. I would've thought like the series in itself seems too, it would've divided the broader opinion. Regards mark687 I don’t think anyone’s saying it should have had a negative outcome. The issue is that they didn’t solely commit to the clear outcome and instead had her bugger off for an unspecified period of time before coming back. Liv didn’t stay due to the events of Stranded, she’d said goodbye to Tania, she decides to stay due to an as of yet unheard adventure. If anything, it makes you question their compatibility because Liv is happy to leave Tania… until she isn’t. Interesting take on it (not one I would like to hear BF explore anytime soon) but interesting. Regards mark687
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 8, 2022 14:33:11 GMT
Realistically there was no chance of a negative outcome for Liv and Tania (imagine the Social Media Outcry if there had been), interestingly so far there hasn't anything but praise anywhere else for the direction the last Ep took. I would've thought like the series in itself seems too, it would've divided the broader opinion. Regards mark687 I don’t think anyone’s saying it should have had a negative outcome. The issue is that they didn’t solely commit to the clear outcome and instead had her bugger off for an unspecified period of time before coming back. Liv didn’t stay due to the events of Stranded, she’d said goodbye to Tania, she decides to stay due to an as of yet unheard adventure. If anything, it makes you question their compatibility because Liv is happy to leave Tania… until she isn’t. So let me get this straight:
basically Liv gets a consequence free Happier ever after for basically abandoning Tania to have adventures with Helen and 8 and through the sheer power of convenience with the TARDIS arriving seconds after her initial departure decides to stay with Tania and continue their relationship meanwhile Liv's real goodbye to 8 (and or Helen) is now a potential future Boxset (aka purchasable DLC)
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Post by mark687 on Apr 8, 2022 14:37:27 GMT
I don’t think anyone’s saying it should have had a negative outcome. The issue is that they didn’t solely commit to the clear outcome and instead had her bugger off for an unspecified period of time before coming back. Liv didn’t stay due to the events of Stranded, she’d said goodbye to Tania, she decides to stay due to an as of yet unheard adventure. If anything, it makes you question their compatibility because Liv is happy to leave Tania… until she isn’t. So let me get this straight:
basically Liv gets a consequence free Happier ever after for basically abandoning Tania to have adventures with Helen and 8 and through the sheer power of convenience with the TARDIS arriving seconds after her initial departure decides to stay with Tania and continue their relationship meanwhile Liv's real goodbye to 8 (and or Helen) is now a potential future Boxset (aka purchasable DLC)
Pretty much! Regards mark687
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Post by thewatcher on Apr 8, 2022 16:59:16 GMT
I don’t think anyone’s saying it should have had a negative outcome. The issue is that they didn’t solely commit to the clear outcome and instead had her bugger off for an unspecified period of time before coming back. Liv didn’t stay due to the events of Stranded, she’d said goodbye to Tania, she decides to stay due to an as of yet unheard adventure. If anything, it makes you question their compatibility because Liv is happy to leave Tania… until she isn’t. So let me get this straight:
basically Liv gets a consequence free Happier ever after for basically abandoning Tania to have adventures with Helen and 8 and through the sheer power of convenience with the TARDIS arriving seconds after her initial departure decides to stay with Tania and continue their relationship meanwhile Liv's real goodbye to 8 (and or Helen) is now a potential future Boxset (aka purchasable DLC)
very bad and from Dorney who is usually a good writer this whole Stranded thing seems to divide all who listen?
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Post by Max The Autist on Apr 8, 2022 17:40:42 GMT
Well, where do we start with that? I didn't mind Crossed Lines too much. It tries to make sense of the previous two sets, which is no mean feat. Not sure it quite succeeds, especially now I've listened to the following stories, which revert back to the jumble, but it's a refreshing underplayed story that harks back to the first set. Get Andy I wasn't terribly keen on, I'm not interested in the character and I didn't like the cop out from the previous set so this feels like a complete waste of time that could've been avoided. The Keys of Baker Street just meanders, never knowing what it wants to do, or what it's going to do; Stranded in a nutshell, frankly. I'm not sure about Colin as The Curator either. He plays it like an older Sixie, which I understand and he's pleasant enough, but I don't think it works. For me The Curator is the enigmatic twinkle and we simply don't spend enough time with the character to justify different faces and personas. It's a bit like doing a string of one-off Doctors; there's not enough there for it to ever be substantial. You just get the impression Tom wasn't available and Colin will do anything for a tenner. And then Best Year Ever... what was that?! I read the thread with a great deal of interest prior to listening and could completely see both sides. For me, I have no issue with tackling COVID so soon, but given I have not been severely impacted by the pandemic, I consider myself to be in a fortunate position that perhaps isn't best qualified to say whether it should be tackled or not. What we get in Best Year Ever is utterly bizarre; what was everyone involved thinking? For a kick off, it's not as risky as it was made out to be. It thinks it's being, which again could be Stranded in a nutshell, but the output is sloppy. I don't think it's intentional, but it certainly comes across as tone deaf and ignorant, I completely agree with that sentiment. It's a rose tinted view of the pandemic, going through the clichés of what lockdown was like for people. It doesn't address the suffering or even attempts to, which is its biggest sin. It reminds me of the debate many of us had when Scorched Earth was released. And I was of the view it was lazily handled because it just flipped the sides and didn't actually portray anything as morally grey or dubious. It's not even accurately handled; it's established the house was broken up into flats, yet we have all of the characters visiting one another throughout with no real thought about the rules in place. And then we finish off with a New Years party, when everyone was explicitly told to stay at home! Then we end on 2021 being the best year ever, when we all know full well the following weeks were some of the worst of the pandemic. The portrayal of the Doctor in it is just bizarre. Given how involved Paul McGann is with his Doctor, I'm surprised he didn't seem to have any issue with it in the behind the scenes. He seems to just go off and sulk. I appreciate he can't do anything about it, but I see no reason why he couldn't have either: A. Not been in the episode until the end; B. Hopped into the future to have a glimpse and then come back and be honest with the characters and reassure them; C. Actively help the local community and residents. It's a shock to me that Big Finish not only went back on their initial promise that the series wouldn't touch upon COVID but this went through however many discussions, drafts and levels of approval and not one person went "oh, hang on, maybe we shouldn't do this or maybe we should rework to be a bit less crass". I'm not sure that it can be excused as none of the characters being aware because they're in 2020 when other historical stories go to great lengths to have the Doctor make reference or express remorse for the way events unfolded. I mean John Dorney did it himself in Monsters in Metropolis a few months ago! COVID aside, I love the idea of the series finishing on an epilogue, but it's not that well handled or earned, really. The series got so far away from its premise that I think it would've been a big feat to have brought the ensemble back together to overcome both the indifference I've felt throughout and a satisfactory ending to whatever the hell unfolded in the prior 15 hours. Instead, we get such a jumbled ending where BF are trying to have their cake and eat it by providing a gap for further adventures with Liv and Helen and then opening up to the inevitable Robots successor and Liv no doubt cropping up left, right and centre in other spin-offs. I am so fatigued by the team that I can only hope it's something for BF to revisit at a later date and not a hint of a continuation in the upcoming sets. What a rollercoaster Stranded was. And not in a good way, I'm saddened to say. Started off so refreshing and full of promise in the first series, to utter indifference in the second and third as it strays away from its premise, with the final set attempting to bring it back before abandoning it once again in favour of a finale that manages to both backpedal on a previous statement made by BF and be crass whilst they're at it. This is exactly my problem with Liv’s departure here. The way it’s done is so, so cowardly. Liv staying with Tania was the most obvious way to end her character’s travels and it seems Big Finish realised that, but they couldn’t dare commit to it. As a result it strips Best Year Ever of any significance, cos the events of the story changed nothing for Liv. She didn’t decide to stay off the back of this storyline she decided to stay because of mysterious unseen adventures. And we all know the reason these adventures are here, so they can milk this setup for even more boxsets. They’ve written the character out whilst simultaneously not writing her out. This is part of a broader problem I have with modern Big Finish; they cannot stomach the idea of an ending. All the ranges go on forever, even The Robots got extended despite having a time limit imposed on it by its premise. Characters no longer grow, change and move on - they just stay forever as they are. Big Finish loves the beginning and middle of stories - never the end. It’s cowardly writing. I agree about the riskiness point. John Dorney clearly thought he was being risky with Beat Year Ever (he talked about nothing else in the previews!) but aside from tackling a subject which some people regard as taboo, it’s just not. All that story does is just depict events we all experienced (except, as you say, a New Year’s party). Dorney gambled on this live wire subject matter, just for that? To compare this story to actually risky stories; I recently revisited Jubilee which gambled on being nasty and brutal, but does all that to furiously make it’s point, and it succeeds. What was the point Best Year Ever was making? Two days of pondering and I still don’t know. I give up.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 8, 2022 19:49:35 GMT
This is exactly my problem with Liv’s departure here. The way it’s done is so, so cowardly. Liv staying with Tania was the most obvious way to end her character’s travels and it seems Big Finish realised that, but they couldn’t dare commit to it. As a result it strips Best Year Ever of any significance, cos the events of the story changed nothing for Liv. She didn’t decide to stay off the back of this storyline she decided to stay because of mysterious unseen adventures. And we all know the reason these adventures are here, so they can milk this setup for even more boxsets. They’ve written the character out whilst simultaneously not writing her out. This is part of a broader problem I have with modern Big Finish; they cannot stomach the idea of an ending. All the ranges go on forever, even The Robots got extended despite having a time limit imposed on it by its premise. Characters no longer grow, change and move on - they just stay forever as they are. Big Finish loves the beginning and middle of stories - never the end. It’s cowardly writing. I agree about the riskiness point. John Dorney clearly thought he was being risky with Beat Year Ever (he talked about nothing else in the previews!) but aside from tackling a subject which some people regard as taboo, it’s just not. All that story does is just depict events we all experienced (except, as you say, a New Year’s party). Dorney gambled on this live wire subject matter, just for that? To compare this story to actually risky stories; I recently revisited Jubilee which gambled on being nasty and brutal, but does all that to furiously make it’s point, and it succeeds. What was the point Best Year Ever was making? Two days of pondering and I still don’t know. I give up.Why do you continue to have problems because people don’t think or feel the same way you do? We are all of us intelligent people with different viewpoints & perspectives.
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Post by thewatcher on Apr 8, 2022 20:14:40 GMT
Why do you continue to have problems because people don’t think or feel the same way you do? We are all of us intelligent people with different viewpoints & perspectives. Yes there lots of different opinions here which is what a forum is all about
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Post by Max The Autist on Apr 9, 2022 1:02:26 GMT
Why do you continue to have problems because people don’t think or feel the same way you do? We are all of us intelligent people with different viewpoints & perspectives. Yes there lots of different opinions here which is what a forum is all about That's not where my problem lies and I literally just said I give up, I'm tired of this argument that I clearly can't win.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 9, 2022 1:26:50 GMT
Yes there lots of different opinions here which is what a forum is all about That's not where my problem lies and I literally just said I give up, I'm tired of this argument that I clearly can't win.right there you show you just don’t get it. These are subjective opinions. There isn’t an argument to win. “I give up” implies an exasperation at being unable to sway people to your way of thinking which itself implies yours is the point of view that we should all be agreeing with. Some of us feel differently than you do. We have our reasons for coming to that conclusion. Deal with it.
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Post by Max The Autist on Apr 9, 2022 5:04:17 GMT
That's not where my problem lies and I literally just said I give up, I'm tired of this argument that I clearly can't win.right there you show you just don’t get it. These are subjective opinions. There isn’t an argument to win. “I give up” implies an exasperation at being unable to sway people to your way of thinking which itself implies yours is the point of view that we should all be agreeing with. Some of us feel differently than you do. We have our reasons for coming to that conclusion. Deal with it. I'm not the one in this thread that said that Big Finish needs to issue apologies for the story. Now can we please stop this, I hate it when threads get taken over by a single debate and I'm actively hating contributing to the takeover of this one.
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Post by Whovitt on Apr 9, 2022 5:41:49 GMT
(Full spoilers follow, so read on at your own risk! Before I start, there are definitely bits that I liked in this set. I'm always better at articulating the things I don't like though, so you'll probably see more negativity than positivity here)
Well. This was the conclusion to a series twenty-two months in the making, and I've got to be honest and say I'm not sure it was worth the wait. If we'd waited the regular eighteen months like the other four-set arcs I probably wouldn't have minded, but we've been waiting nearly two years for this and it ultimately commits what I consider to the be the biggest sin in time travel fiction: the "none of this really happened in the first place" trope. It's the time travel equivalent of "it was all a dream." I hate it. Sure, our protagonists remember it happening, but in terms of the events that are considered real within the story world, only the final episode actually occurs. I can't help but feel we kind of wasted our time here.
In terms of the story, I quite liked episodes one and three. The villain "twist" was predicted by myself and others ages ago (I'm pretty sure I'd worked it out after finishing Stranded 2...), but I enjoyed the first episode despite this. I don't understand why they brought in Colin as the Curator though. I do think he brought enough of a different characterisation to the part that made it distinct from his Doctor, but I really don't see what the purpose behind it was. Also, I seem to remember a promise back when Stranded 1 was announced that there weren't going to be answers given regarding the Curator's identity. Sure, in our hearts we all knew he was the Doctor, but having it literally spelt out in so many words in episode three utterly destroyed any mystique the character had.
I wanted to enjoy episode two, but the split between the Doctor's predicament and Andy's completely ruined the story for me. The Doctor's side was actually quite thought-provoking and emotional, and then we get Andy bumbling along like the idiot he's been portrayed as throughout most of Stranded. I feel he's been dumbed down in this series just for comic relief value, and the juxtaposition between the serious Doctor-strand and the "funny" Andy-strand just didn't work for me. There were moments of genius here, but they were spoiled by the other events. Also, what was with changing time and killing the alt-history Andy? The entire premise of the previous episode was about how rewriting time was such as bad thing, as even if the lives of the people in the timeline lost would never have existed in the first place, "their lives are important to them"!!! How could they justify wiping this version of Andy so readily after having just learnt this lesson? (Also, the title is just awful. Feels like a weak point, but I'm making it anyway)
As for the finale... All the teasers for this episode simply promised more than they delivered, particularly in regards to the end of this TARDIS team. I'm an unashamed supporter of the "worst way to write out a companion" opinion. If they'd had Liv instantly change her mind and have the Doctor bring her back, it would have been a fantastic ending for her character. As it is, she continued on with her life without Tania and only later decided that Tania was worth her time. In Tania's position, I probably wouldn't have accepted Liv back, as Liv full-on ditched her and only came back later when it was convenient for her. Oh, how loved Tania must feel right now! And like others, I feel they cheated with this "exit". This TARDIS team clearly isn't over. Liv's been gone for a while at least by the time she returns, so this absolutely won't be the last time we see this team. An exit should have a sense of finality about it, and there isn't a shred of that here.
So... yeah. I liked episodes one and three and the Doctor part of episode two. I don't know why they recast the Curator, the villain twist was painfully obvious, important lessons learnt seem to be flat-out ignored, and the "exit" was just really badly handled (which I take no pleasure in saying, as I normally enjoy anything John Dorney writes). And Robin was pretty insufferable throughout. Maybe I've forgotten some things from Stranded 1 that actually made him likeable or sympathetic, but I genuinely have no attachment to kid and was disappointed that he ended up being so important the story. Oh, and one last thing: I remember Stranded being advertised as much smaller in scale than the previous sixteen-part epics. No big universe-ending threats and the like. Well...
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 9, 2022 5:50:51 GMT
So let me get this straight:
basically Liv gets a consequence free Happier ever after for basically abandoning Tania to have adventures with Helen and 8 and through the sheer power of convenience with the TARDIS arriving seconds after her initial departure decides to stay with Tania and continue their relationship meanwhile Liv's real goodbye to 8 (and or Helen) is now a potential future Boxset (aka purchasable DLC)
very bad and from Dorney who is usually a good writer this whole Stranded thing seems to divide all who listen? Its completely Morally Reprehensible
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Post by shallacatop on Apr 9, 2022 7:02:22 GMT
right there you show you just don’t get it. These are subjective opinions. There isn’t an argument to win. “I give up” implies an exasperation at being unable to sway people to your way of thinking which itself implies yours is the point of view that we should all be agreeing with. Some of us feel differently than you do. We have our reasons for coming to that conclusion. Deal with it. I'm not the one in this thread that said that Big Finish needs to issue apologies for the story. Now can we please stop this, I hate it when threads get taken over by a single debate and I'm actively hating contributing to the takeover of this one. I don’t think you actually like to participate in debate or discussion regarding your own posts. You like to have your opinion without any subjectivity and leave it at that. Yet you also like to challenge people on their opinions. It’s a forum and discussion works both ways. The post you quoted where you said “I give up” had absolutely no relation to your point about Big Finish apologising for the story. I’m not sure you even know what your point is anymore; you don’t like to be challenged so you’ve moved on to another topic and then want the discussion to now be shut down because of fear of being challenged again.
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