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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Mar 4, 2022 8:05:26 GMT
I mean, let me give an outline:
The story is set so deep in the past that even the Time Lords who existed (at least as Gallifreyans) at the time remember it only as faint, vague legends.
Those same Gallifreyans are at war with the Great Vampires and are losing.
We add into that mix a species who exist to give other species a life span. Three Doctors, including thr version currently wildly and wilfully swinging between self destructive and megalomania, the eponymous Time Lord victorious, a Doctor still recovering from the War and the eight Doctor from before he even knew there WAS a Time War, two versions of the Master, the Daleks and an Ood Assassin named Brian.
Ohh and did I mention the eighth Doctor is WORKING with the Daleks and the ninth leading a group of rogue vampires. The tenth Doctor has declared open war on a mythic species and the other two Doctors have to stop him, while also working with and against the Daleks, vampires and gallifreyans.
Hell, this came out after The Timeless Children revelations, so there by all rights should be a fourth Doctor running around somewhere fighting with Rassilon against the vampires.
OHH and Rose is currently a vampire.
the highlight of the series is “Daleks live out “Alien” except the beast in the vents is the Doctor”.
which happens after the series as a coda.
So what went wrong?
Smeg me…. Just about everything.
Rose was written out perfunctory in the tie-in comic.The Daleks just pottered around being a vague, easily avoided and defeated threat, the vampires lose all their powers and mystique, the Gallifrey a s sod off and do nothing, the masters arn’tbeven needed for the Main plot, there is no reason for any Doctor to be there because the tenth basically realises by himself he’s being a Berk….
So much opportunity….
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Post by shallacatop on Mar 4, 2022 8:48:37 GMT
I don't think your outline is accurate really. It's a breakdown of elements in some of the stories, but I don't think it's representative of the individual stories or even the overall Time Lord Victorious story. It's established why the Eighth Doctor is with the Daleks and why the Ninth is with the vampires; it doesn't suddenly happen. It's also well established why Ten is waging war against the Kotturuh.
I personally enjoyed it a lot. It was certainly ambitious and I'd have no hesitation in recommending it to people, at least the two books.
What I felt let the project down was the promotion and the release schedule. It should have been transparent that the Time Lord Victorious is The Waters of Mars and the two books. All other stories is supporting material that branches off those and the wider Dark Times era and should have been promoted and released s such. I think they did start off like that when it was first announced, but got in over their heads with sheer enthusiasm as more and more licencees wanted to get on board.
If you just want the TLV story, then you can indulge in the two books and get a great back-to-back Tenth Doctor trilogy. If you loved the books, then you can delve into how the Eighth and Ninth Doctors join in, find out more about the Dalek Time Squad and Brian the Ood or even see what Ten is like in the aftermath, cleaning up his mess. That doesn't mean they don't all work as standalone stories, but they spent too much time and promotion emphasising they were standalone and also connecting and taking away the focus on what the project actually is.
As someone who consumed it all, I would've been in favour in a greater effort made to tie into the events of the books more. Echoes of Extinction felt like the one that balanced that best, but the Eighth Doctor audios and the Ninth Doctor comic didn't. If the release schedule was amended, then perhaps how it all joined up would be more clear.
I'd definitely be up for another similar project in the future, but one that should go the whole hog and properly cross over and bring the different elements together more.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Mar 4, 2022 8:52:04 GMT
Never said it was “suddenly” for thr allegiances with Daleks and vampires, only that they did sweet funny Arkwright with it.1
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Mar 4, 2022 8:53:53 GMT
It was a BRILLIANT idea, should have been more of it and frankly Flux should have had aspects of it woven it.
It’s execution was pants.
Dozens of brilliant ideas, and roughly 11 of them squandered.
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Post by theillusiveman on Mar 4, 2022 9:26:22 GMT
Honestly the concept itself is excellent having Three Beloved Doctors in one interconnected story was great
However the execution of the project was oof
I will say the Big Finish segment of Time Lord Victorious was honestly quite poor
The McGann Trilogy should have been a box set instead of 3 Individual CDs
Paul McGann for half of it felt disinterested
there were no 9th or 10th Doctor Audios (you could have had Dudman lending his voice for those)
Echoes of Extinction wasted both Tennant and McGann plus the whole Download Exclusive really angered CD Collectors on social media not to mention the cock up with Amazon
I will say a interconnected story line with several ranges telling one big story is a great idea and i think Big Finish are planning to do more like it with The Fourth Doctor Series 13 and UNIT Nemesis ranges
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Post by coffeeaddict on Mar 4, 2022 23:10:23 GMT
The marketing was a joke. The stories were terrible. I appreciate some enjoyed the books, I couldn't. The best thing I can say is they were better than the Target novels from Eric Saward.
Personally I think the BBC realized that there's a large enough segment of the fanbase who will buy everything marketed under the DW banner and they decided to take advantage of that fact.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Mar 5, 2022 17:47:33 GMT
My take -
TLV was built around two scenes. The first was a reappraisal of the ending of "Waters of Mars". Until TLV, we thought that the Doctor had resiled from his arrogance, and that his defiant mood was aimed at the prospect of death. TLV reinvented it as his arrogance remaining in place and his defiance being set against the rejection of the Time Lord Victorious that lead whatshername to shoot herself. The second scene was this idea of having the tenth Doctor in a spaceship, attacking two other spaceships on which his other selves were opposing him.
Unfortunately, this wasn't made clear. There was a mess of different stories from different places, and although it was stressed early on that the intention was that fans should pick and choose their own elements and storylines, this message didn't get through. And it was the wrong message, they ought to have made sure that people were clear the main story was the two novels.
That was also a mistake, making the main story the novels. They should have told the main stories through audio plays, but let that pass.
The next problem was that the authors assigned to the novels didn't really want to write the. The first book needed to take the Doctor from his angry place at the end of "Mars", to his even angrier place facing off his other selves. And while there's an attempt to do that, the book opens with him in a whimsical and cheerful mood that is out of place.
The second book needs to get him from his villainous pose back to normal, but the author (can't remember which writer did which one) evidently couldn't handle the idea of the tenth Doctor as a baddie, so he stops being a baddie almost immediately. Then he and the other Doctors run around, incidentally defeating a Dalek that can't be defeated. It's a forgettable novel, that completely misses the excitement of teh cliffhanger it was supposed to followup.
It's also worth noting that Titan evidently didn't want to play. It wasn't their fault that they ended up having to print their comic before the storyline that lead into it, but the fact that they chose to use a pre-WoM version of the tenth Doctor didn't make any sense.
But.. it wasn't a bad idea. The central control was poorly exercised, but I hope they try something like this again. So long as there's a clear core, and ideally a fairly-linear storyline, it could work very well. If speculation is right and we don't have a new Doctor for next year, they could do the main storyline on tv with one or two Doctors, and then have spinoffs for the others. So long as the spinoffs aren't necessary for the storyline, I believe that's allowed.
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Post by grinch on Mar 5, 2022 18:13:42 GMT
Just thought it was a bit rubbish if truth be told and extremely underwhelming. And to be perfectly honest, I feel like they attempted this way too late. Considering the Doctor(s) they used, they really should have tried this about ten or fifteen years ago. But, I digress.
I thought the Kotturuh were an excellent idea even if they tried tying them to just about every big player in the DW universe. (That’s a real bug bear of mine I have to admit...) but aside from maybe two of the Big Finish audios and the really quite excellent Minds of Magnox it all just seemed pretty poor.
Plus, was it just me or did anyone else think they were hoping Brian the Ood would be the standout star in this and lead to further EU adventures? Feel like he was developed independently from this and they couldn’t find any other way of bringing him in so just dropped him into this event. A pity not a lot was done to develop him really as a character outside of the central gimmick of an Ood assassin.
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 6, 2022 9:52:25 GMT
It also left me a bit disappointed and pretty unsatisfied.
And I got the comics (which were not very good IMO compared to the other Titan comics), the boooks (there are much better Who books out there) and the audios (okay, but from a huge event, I had expected more).
It just did not come together as a whole for me.
The original villain was great, and I was pretty disappointed when they were put away in the fridge to make room for even more Daleks (I am by now tired of Daleks).
But Brian the Ood was awesome.
He deserves his own spin-off.
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 6, 2022 9:53:55 GMT
My take - TLV was built around two scenes. The first was a reappraisal of the ending of "Waters of Mars". Until TLV, we thought that the Doctor had resiled from his arrogance, and that his defiant mood was aimed at the prospect of death. TLV reinvented it as his arrogance remaining in place and his defiance being set against the rejection of the Time Lord Victorious that lead whatshername to shoot herself. The second scene was this idea of having the tenth Doctor in a spaceship, attacking two other spaceships on which his other selves were opposing him. Unfortunately, this wasn't made clear. There was a mess of different stories from different places, and although it was stressed early on that the intention was that fans should pick and choose their own elements and storylines, this message didn't get through. And it was the wrong message, they ought to have made sure that people were clear the main story was the two novels. That was also a mistake, making the main story the novels. They should have told the main stories through audio plays, but let that pass. The next problem was that the authors assigned to the novels didn't really want to write the. The first book needed to take the Doctor from his angry place at the end of "Mars", to his even angrier place facing off his other selves. And while there's an attempt to do that, the book opens with him in a whimsical and cheerful mood that is out of place. The second book needs to get him from his villainous pose back to normal, but the author (can't remember which writer did which one) evidently couldn't handle the idea of the tenth Doctor as a baddie, so he stops being a baddie almost immediately. Then he and the other Doctors run around, incidentally defeating a Dalek that can't be defeated. It's a forgettable novel, that completely misses the excitement of teh cliffhanger it was supposed to followup. It's also worth noting that Titan evidently didn't want to play. It wasn't their fault that they ended up having to print their comic before the storyline that lead into it, but the fact that they chose to use a pre-WoM version of the tenth Doctor didn't make any sense. But.. it wasn't a bad idea. The central control was poorly exercised, but I hope they try something like this again. So long as there's a clear core, and ideally a fairly-linear storyline, it could work very well. If speculation is right and we don't have a new Doctor for next year, they could do the main storyline on tv with one or two Doctors, and then have spinoffs for the others. So long as the spinoffs aren't necessary for the storyline, I believe that's allowed. Yeah, pretty much my thoughts there. |
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Post by muckypup on Mar 6, 2022 14:31:35 GMT
Pretty poor on all accounts to be honest…..
It lacked a single event either an animated special or a big finish box event to tie everything cohesively to the TLV banner
For me it ended up being just a bunch of poor tales that neither satisfied of made the collecting of them worth the effort
Only thing I liked was the 8th/10th big finish flip/flop style tale….but that didn’t really link to anything else….but was a good release
A missed, or more likely rushed out opportunity
As a consumer I felt it let me down…
But as to any future tie-in event thing it would world great if was based around a flux style tale, with fleshed out elements & untold tales
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Post by grinch on Mar 6, 2022 14:37:19 GMT
Pretty poor on all accounts to be honest….. It lacked a single event either an animated special or a big finish box event to tie everything cohesively to the TLV banner For me it ended up being just a bunch of poor tales that neither satisfied of made the collecting of them worth the effort Only thing I liked was the 8th/10th big finish flip/flop style tale….but that didn’t really link to anything else….but was a good release A missed, or more likely rushed out opportunity As a consumer I felt it let me down… But as to any future tie-in event thing it would world great if was based around a flux style tale, with fleshed out elements & untold tales Echoes of Extinction I too thought was good. But it’s connection to Time Lord Victorious as an event is so tenuous merely being relegated to a single, easily missed throwaway line that it does make you wonder why they even bothered! |
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Post by Chakoteya on Mar 6, 2022 18:19:52 GMT
I enjoyed the audios. The rest of the media completely passed me by so... meh. No idea who originally mooted the idea, but the pandemic might have put a crimp in co-operating with the others to form a coherent whole?
(I suspect it was devised solely to get people with too much spare change to buy lots of stuff anyway. COVID-19 probably helped there.)
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Post by muckypup on Mar 6, 2022 21:18:02 GMT
I enjoyed the audios. The rest of the media completely passed me by so... meh. No idea who originally mooted the idea, but the pandemic might have put a crimp in co-operating with the others to form a coherent whole? (I suspect it was devised solely to get people with too much spare change to buy lots of stuff anyway. COVID-19 probably helped there.) Not quite sure that’s correct the release schedule certainly was impacted by the pandemic, but the quality of the books & comics were defiantly a D-, n that should not really have happened considering they should really have been completed by the time the pandemic hit……. the 8th doctor audios were ok, but some of the most forgettable releases in a long time……but think you spot on it was nothing more than a money extracting event…..once bitten twice shy |
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Post by sherlock on Mar 7, 2022 22:10:16 GMT
Well I enjoyed it.
Its not the greatest Who story ever and they perhaps should have made clear that the meat of the arc was the novels, with everything else embellishing other aspects of the story. The comics are perhaps the weakest element, as they tie in the least and just aren’t much of as stories in their own right. But I enjoyed the Eighth Doctor’s audios, loved the free online short stories and really dug the novels. I would have liked them more if they had a little more page count, as they do rush around a fair bit especially All Flesh is Grass, but as an expansion of Ten’s arc I just really liked them. I even warmed to Daleks!, dodgy animation aside.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Mar 28, 2022 15:08:47 GMT
The release schedule could have been changed around and how things fit together in storyline order could have been clearer
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Post by Tim Bradley on Mar 28, 2022 15:47:52 GMT
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jun 27, 2022 8:51:06 GMT
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melkur
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,964 
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Post by melkur on Jul 21, 2022 23:51:45 GMT
I will admit that I haven't listened to the audios (barring Magnox) since they were first released, buuuuuut I didn't actually mind it? I mean, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want a big all-encompassing multi-media event each and every year... (Every once in a while, if the story justifies it? Sure. 'Year in, year out'? That would get pretty draining pretty quickly...).
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Post by Kestrel on Jul 22, 2022 14:59:44 GMT
I only listened to the TLV audios, which had nothing to do with each other, let alone the wider TLV narrative (which I am told exists but have seen no evidence of personally). There's more continuity tying together two unrelated Monthly Range stories. And on top of that, the TLV audios were all pretty middling, at best, save the final story which was just a literal slap to the face.
Not sure "wasted opportunity" quite does it Justice.
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