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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2022 20:00:38 GMT
After seeing Jo's departure in the Green Death, it got me thinking about how companion departures should be handled. Should there be a build-up like there was with Jo and Nyssa, no build-up like with Sarah-Jane, Romana, Tegan and Mel, or even death like with Adric and Clara.
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Post by thewatcher on Mar 9, 2022 20:49:37 GMT
If they a girl they should fall in love with someone at last minute then leave for marriage.
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Post by bonehead on Mar 9, 2022 21:05:54 GMT
Variation, I think. If every companion had a hugely emotional leaving story like Rose or Amy, such events would become tired. Unlike a few, I liked the low-key ending for Graeme and Ryan, and the highly unusual ending given to Bill. I know he wasn't an actual travelling companion, but Danny Pink's initial departure from the show at the beginning of Dark Water was very effective. I remember being gutted at Romana's leaving scene, when all she did was hurry back to the TARDIS with the Doctor and then tell him she wasn't going with him. It's how invested you are in the character, I think.
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Post by relativetime on Mar 9, 2022 21:40:58 GMT
I personally like when a companion’s departure is the natural conclusion of their ongoing character arc. Rose’s departure, for instance, was foreshadowed fairly often in Series 2 as I seem to remember it. She became a little too reckless, a little too careless, so by the end her being separated from the Doctor felt almost like a punishment from a certain point of view. It reminds the viewer of the ongoing theme in New Who that traveling with the Doctor is dangerous and people do get hurt. It’s just a great yet tragic way to write the companion out.
Death is something I think has only been done right once or twice far as companion deaths go and Adric is still the prime example of doing it right. Even then, I only think it should remain a very rare way for a companion to depart. I think if you’re going to kill a companion off, you also need to commit. No bringing them back, no technicalities. You have to have an extremely good idea to ever justify resurrecting a dead character and even then you still run the risk of ruining the impact a character’s death had in the first place. When it’s done right, I think these can be some of the most memorable and devastating companion departures in the entire show.
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Post by bonehead on Mar 9, 2022 22:25:42 GMT
Peri Brown spoilers follow, just in case ...
A good example of a shocking departure being softened later on was poor Peri. A lot of people, myself included, loved the way the show - heavily criticised by Mr Grade at the time - had the bravery to kill off a popular regular character, and some were annoyed that four or five episodes later, a different truth was revealed.
I know a lot of viewers were genuinely upset and even traumatised by her 'death'. The last time we saw her, she was strapped to a laboratory slab, her hair being removed for the forthcoming operation. That was it. No final words, no speeches. The next - well, she wasn't quite herself!
I agreed with JNT's decision to 'rewrite,' that final scene. As transmitted - and I know I've made this point before - we viewers had five weeks to come to terms with the shock, and that was harrowing enough! To finally give her a happier send-off I thought was the right thing to do.
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Post by grinch on Mar 9, 2022 22:37:27 GMT
As bonehead said, it’s all a matter of variation. Personally, I don’t actually mind when companions get killed off. It can be suitably dramatic and make for some much needed stakes. I do think a companion death has to be earned, however, and I certainly wouldn’t want all of them to result in out and out bloodbaths.
Mind you, I’ve never liked this recent trend especially in the revived series of not just resurrecting companions (again, that has to be earned) but making them veritable gods. Bill becomes a practically omnipotent being thanks to some sentient alien spaceship oil and Clara turns into an immortal with her own TARDIS no less! The latter being the worst offender I think and flies in the face of any decent stakes when death can so easily be reversed.
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Post by mark687 on Mar 9, 2022 23:20:13 GMT
Top 3
Jo in Green Death, EP 1 is really the Goodbye "I've only got 10 minutes" "You've got all the time and space in the world" and "So the Fledgling fly's the coop" The rest of the story is setting up what Jo'll do next and Doctor coming to accept it.
Victoria in Fury from the Deep. Just a slow realization that she's had enough.
11th's Phone call in Wedding of River Song tinged with real life obviously but just an enormous moment handled with gentle simple grace.
But I do agree in general Newer Series departures are at the same time both overplayed and lacking in impact.
Regards
mark687
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Post by grinch on Mar 9, 2022 23:29:54 GMT
Top 3 Jo in Green Death, EP 1 is really the Goodbye "I've only got 10 minutes" "You've got all the time and space in the world" and "So the Fledgling fly's the coop" The rest of the story is setting up what Jo'll do next and Doctor coming to accept it. Victoria in Fury from the Deep. Just a slow realization that she's had enough. 11th's Phone call in Wedding of River Song tinged with real life obviously but just an enormous moment handled with gentle simple grace. But i do agree in general Newer Series departures are at the same time both overplayed and lacking in impact. Regards mark687 I really like Jamie and Zoë’s departure as well. For one of the more lighthearted incarnations it was quietly tragic that his closest friends would not only not be allowed to travel with him no longer but wouldn’t even remember him. Nowadays I feel like such a scene would be accompanied by a big musical swell and a montage. |
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Post by bonehead on Mar 10, 2022 9:01:14 GMT
Top 3 Jo in Green Death, EP 1 is really the Goodbye "I've only got 10 minutes" "You've got all the time and space in the world" and "So the Fledgling fly's the coop" The rest of the story is setting up what Jo'll do next and Doctor coming to accept it. Victoria in Fury from the Deep. Just a slow realization that she's had enough. 11th's Phone call in Wedding of River Song tinged with real life obviously but just an enormous moment handled with gentle simple grace. But i do agree in general Newer Series departures are at the same time both overplayed and lacking in impact. Regards mark687 I really like Jamie and Zoë’s departure as well. For one of the more lighthearted incarnations it was quietly tragic that his closest friends would not only not be allowed to travel with him no longer but wouldn’t even remember him. Nowadays I feel like such a scene would be accompanied by a big musical swell and a montage. I also love the Doctor's reaction to Zoe and Jamie's departure. Very subtle, in fact when he sees the film of Jamie back in his homeland, he laughs! Going against the emotion like this actually made me more sad this team was breaking up. Yep, the modern trend of placing departing companions on a 'higher universal level' became too much, which is why I appreciated Graeme and Ryan simply saying that they wanted to get back to their normal life. And the phonecall about The Brig was/is wonderful. I'd forgotten about that one. |
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shutupbanks
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There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Mar 10, 2022 9:23:23 GMT
If they’re going to leave I don’t want a sudden decision or an unrealistic one. Nyssa’s I could believe in because the story took time to build it up. The same with Jo and Victoria. Leela’s I hated because, despite her having scenes with Andred all the way through the story, there was no sign that anything was happening between them. Romana I could believe in because she had said back in Full Circle that she didn’t want to go back to Gallifrey and Biroc and K9 gave her even more incentive to stay away. In the revived series I really liked how Rose left: it was sudden and shocking and then it had to be spoiled by that damned “phone call” courtesy of a dying star. Mind you, I loved how they handled her return. I wish the same could be said for Clara.
I guess I prefer it to come out of left field and be shocking but still work within the story. Amy and Rory, Adric, Zoe and Jamie all had terrific exits. Tegan’s worked for me because it’s easy to see that the Doctor’s life is exciting but too much of it could be a bad thing. I loved Peri’s initial exit because it was so shocking and was “let down” by the retcon just a few episodes later.
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Post by grinch on Mar 10, 2022 9:38:11 GMT
I really like Jamie and Zoë’s departure as well. For one of the more lighthearted incarnations it was quietly tragic that his closest friends would not only not be allowed to travel with him no longer but wouldn’t even remember him. Nowadays I feel like such a scene would be accompanied by a big musical swell and a montage. I also love the Doctor's reaction to Zoe and Jamie's departure. Very subtle, in fact when he sees the film of Jamie back in his homeland, he laughs! Going against the emotion like this actually made me more sad this team was breaking up. Yep, the modern trend of placing departing companions on a 'higher universal level' became too much, which is why I appreciated Graeme and Ryan simply saying that they wanted to get back to their normal life. And the phonecall about The Brig was/is wonderful. I'd forgotten about that one. The Brigadier phone call I think hits harder the older you get. That sobering, inevitable feeling when you realise that once familiar faces have finally faded away and that perhaps, just perhaps you’ve lived too long. |
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lidar2
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You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Mar 10, 2022 11:32:35 GMT
I would say it is easier to define a bad departure. A bad departure is anything that feels grafted on at the last minute that does not sit well with the preceding parts of the story and/or the companion's character arc (assuming they have one). The other kind of bad departure is the no-departure, e.g. Dodo, Liz Shaw, Romana 1, that is explained by other characters' dialogue in the next episode. All other departures are good departures, or at least have the potential be good departures if handled well by the production team.
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Post by constonks on Mar 10, 2022 20:14:13 GMT
I think Jo Grant miiiiight just have the best departure in the series. She gets a combination of the "falling in love" exit (like Susan before her) and the "staying behind to help" one (like Steven) and the Doctor is utterly devastated but knows it's for the best. Plus it's not as contrived as most love-departure plots, as she's admired Clifford Jones from afar for some time.
But all of that is detail. The important thing is that it feels like a natural last chapter of her story.
Look at an ending that we all dislike - Leela's - the problem isn't just the abruptness or the fact she only has mild chemistry with Andred in one scene - for me, it's... How did her arc get here? The Doctor tried to Eliza Doolittle her, then he gave up as he realized she was who she was, but she learned so much anyway... and then she stayed somewhere she would never fit in.
(And ultimately - Big Finish fixed both of those things. They gave her a better ending - albeit a temporary one - when she stayed behind to become Marshall's teacher in Requiem for the Rocket Men. And they gave her a new purpose in the Gallifrey series - being the non-Time Lord who advised and served Romana.)
So, yeah, I'm not so concerned with HOW they leave but the narrative WHY of it all!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 0:04:46 GMT
A space freighter crashing in to a planet worked quite well back in the day... so I'll go with a nice quick death!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 1:34:43 GMT
No one thing, but you know one when you see or hear it. You do not even need an established relationship - I would say an underrated one is Mel in Dragonfire. She had barely been with McCoy (or Colin) and was not exactly the best utilised companion ever (but I liked we had a real upbeat companion after so many moapers who wanted to leave for nearly a decade..) yet the slow way she delivers her "confession" that she is offski and the Doctors wonderful little speech about the old man in his box with his days like crazy paving are fabulous and fresh. Almost 2005ish when they embrace - that just was not really done.
Contrast with the pathetic departure of Sarah Jane who, yes, has some lovely bits where both she and The Doctor talk around their feelings...but ultimately there is zero sense that he could not nip back and pick her up post-Deadly Assassin. There should have been a spark of her either wanting stability and a real life with her own destiny or a reason The Doctor could not head back for her.
For understated sadness, Ian and Barbara causin "I shall miss them..." from Hartnell is vastly overshadowed by Susans depature because of *that* speech before it. Yet "I shall miss them" just after one last faux argument? I would contend that is more true to everyones established characters.
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