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Post by Kestrel on May 31, 2022 22:24:04 GMT
Yeah, it's an idea I've seen toyed around a bit, also w/r/t the Borg in Star Trek as a potential means of neutering their threat while still adhering to the utopian ideals the franchise was built on -- the idea that the Borg are ultimately defeated not through force of arms, but through a change in culture/perspective. Understanding and empathy instead of genocide.
The Cybermen are in a bit of a different situation, of course, but I do kind of like the idea of them being in a sleazy cult. And as much flack as the Chibnall era has gotten, I genuinely think the "lone Cyberman" thing from Villa Diodacchi was one of the coolest things Doctor Who has ever done with the Cybermen, owing mostly to the revelation that what's-his-name (Azad?) volunteered for conversion.
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Post by mrperson on Jun 1, 2022 15:38:26 GMT
So..... the Warner Doc is still bouncing around in Home Universe for Who, yes?
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Post by sherlock on Jun 1, 2022 15:48:02 GMT
So..... the Warner Doc is still bouncing around in Home Universe for Who, yes? Yep. Stuck with Benny in the normal Who universe. |
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Post by Kestrel on Jun 2, 2022 7:39:56 GMT
So..... the Warner Doc is still bouncing around in Home Universe for Who, yes? Forever and always. |
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jun 2, 2022 22:09:59 GMT
So..... the Warner Doc is still bouncing around in Home Universe for Who, yes? Well…. It’s a universe Benny recognises. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the prime universe, the TARDIS is notoriously unreliable and was barely regenerated itself when it made the trip again across the boundaries of universes. so much lost potential to explore the dying unbound universe  and none of the stories so far have needed to be set in Benny’s universe. In fact, some would have gained more poignance as part of the dying universe. |
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Post by grinch on Jun 3, 2022 4:45:29 GMT
So..... the Warner Doc is still bouncing around in Home Universe for Who, yes? Well…. It’s a universe Benny recognises. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the prime universe, the TARDIS is notoriously unreliable and was barely regenerated itself when it made the trip again across the boundaries of universes. so much lost potential to explore the dying unbound universe and none of the stories so far have needed to be set in Benny’s universe. In fact, some would have gained more poignance as part of the dying universe. Indeed. And it’s not even like Big Finish will ever go back to explore said universe considering as shown by another release they’ve firmly closed the lid on that possibility. |
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Post by mrperson on Jun 5, 2022 17:41:59 GMT
So..... the Warner Doc is still bouncing around in Home Universe for Who, yes? Well…. It’s a universe Benny recognises. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the prime universe, the TARDIS is notoriously unreliable and was barely regenerated itself when it made the trip again across the boundaries of universes. so much lost potential to explore the dying unbound universe  and none of the stories so far have needed to be set in Benny’s universe. In fact, some would have gained more poignance as part of the dying universe.
I wonder who he might bump into...
I also wonder whether I missed any cues as to when in Prime Universe relative to modern (real) Earth he is. They tend to make the Doctor's visits to fictional Earth either pegged to the date in the real world, or explicitly set past/future. In Masters of War, which has to be in the dying universe, he visits Earth for the first time something like 10-20 years after the Doctor did in Prime Universe. But then he ends up in Benny's series, bringing her to the dying universe (and eventually escaping back to Prime). Benny is more aligned with 7/8's era.
So what years can we expect Warner doc to visit? Relevance being: are the Time Lords around pre-Time War? Is it post-Time War but pre-saving-Gallifrey? Post saving-Gallifrey? Etc.
I'd expect him to run into the Doctor and/or them to want a word. (That said, "Gallifrey" concluded the last Benny/Warner set. It's been a while. I seem to recall it being generally about him saving Prime Universe Gallifrey at a time when Narvin is around (who, I might add, apparently survived the last episode of the Gallifrey series, but has not appeared on TV, so who knows how long he's around).
Either way, I hope this particular pairing lasts a very long time.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jun 30, 2022 12:03:13 GMT
Trailer  |
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Post by newt5996 on Jun 30, 2022 14:20:27 GMT
Trailer This trailers such a breath of fresh air. I can’t wait for this to be released |
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Post by Kestrel on Jul 1, 2022 2:42:13 GMT
Oh, wow. That ending. Definitely the best Big Finish trailer I've ever listened to. Goddamn.
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 1, 2022 18:04:34 GMT
There is to hope they won't mangle my mother tongue again beyond recognition.  But anyways, really looking forward to this. Pretty much my favorite BF range. |
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Post by Kestrel on Jul 1, 2022 19:55:16 GMT
There is to hope they won't mangle my mother tongue again beyond recognition.  But anyways, really looking forward to this. Pretty much my favorite BF range. You know, I was actually thinking, "The accent isn't too bad this time." But I've also been listening to a bunch of older stuff lately where I'm pretty sure they were deliberately going for the worst possible "artistic interpretation" of a German accents possible. Like totally unrecognizable if not for naming the character "Hans, from Düsseldorf." That kind of thing. The point is... maybe they're getting better? By 2080 German characters might speak with the same sort of accent you'd expect from an anglophone student who spent a semester in Berlin. |
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 1, 2022 20:26:55 GMT
There is to hope they won't mangle my mother tongue again beyond recognition. But anyways, really looking forward to this. Pretty much my favorite BF range. You know, I was actually thinking, "The accent isn't too bad this time." But I've also been listening to a bunch of older stuff lately where I'm pretty sure they were deliberately going for the worst possible "artistic interpretation" of a German accents possible. Like totally unrecognizable if not for naming the character "Hans, from Düsseldorf." That kind of thing. The point is... maybe they're getting better? By 2080 German characters might speak with the same sort of accent you'd expect from an anglophone student who spent a semester in Berlin. Well, there was a period when BF WERE actually getting better, with hiring German speaking actors to play the roles and they just sounded REAL. Non false overacting, no completely incomprehensible butchering of the language (even I as a native speaker have no clue what so ever what some of the apparent "German" words in older releases were supposed to be).
Just listen to the 7th Doctor New Adventures box set. That was a revelation for me.
I thought the drought was over.
But then recently, they did another release (I cannot even remember which one, I have not since re-listened) where they were back to old form and basically did a "Minuet in Hell" (with those hideous American accents) turn on the German language and it completely threw me out of the story and put me off and had me not re-visit that story again. It just sounds fake, is completely unnecessary (there is a TARDIS translation circuit, just use that!) and just throws off anyone who is native to that tongue. Hey, even I find "Minuet in Hell" painful to listen to for the fake Americans.
Since in the upcoming Benny release, we have stories about Berlin in the past.... I am not keeping my hopes up that we will get anything else than the standard borderline idiotic stereotypical fake German overacting, because that is what everyone is used to from TV and movies. This is how Germans supposedly sounded back then.
Doing it any more realistic by using actors who actually know how to speak the language would be "too realistic" and "not believable".
I bet with you now- this is what we will get.
Anyone dare to go up against that?
EDIT: Fun Fact, did anyone know that "Hogan's Heroes" is a HUGE success in Germany and the generation of my mum absolutely loves and adores it? Reason is, as everything in Germany, it is dubbed into German language. And all the Nazi officers have different German dialects.
It is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. They did a perfect job. It fits so perfectly.
I watched Hogan's heroes in the original English, but oh boy, the German dubbed version is sooooooooo much better.
Basically the only ever time I will ever say this- because, I hate dubbing, I prefer watching the original. But Hogan's Heroes was improved by dubbing.
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Post by Kestrel on Jul 2, 2022 8:18:14 GMT
I didn't know about Hogan's Heroes, but I know y'all went nuts for David Hasselhoff back in the day.
Re: Big Finish, sometimes I think the casting/direction may be deliberate, trying to be evocative of the campy/cartoonish style of your average Bond-villain or nationalist caricature (think Ming the Merciless). But that doesn't always fit the script, so sometimes I think the actors/director never actually met a German person, and has only ever been exposed to those B-movies.
It's interesting that this only seems to happen with German characters, though. Even the Russian accents aren't that bad. And while I mock them quite a bit, those American accents are pitch-perfect in comparison to some of these German characters.
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 2, 2022 8:44:52 GMT
I didn't know about Hogan's Heroes, but I know y'all went nuts for David Hasselhoff back in the day. Re: Big Finish, so,e times I think the casting/direction may be deliberate, trying to be evocative of the campy/cartoonish style of your average Bind-villain or nationalist caricature (think Ming the Merciless). But that doesn't always fit the script, so sometimes I think the actors/director never actually met a German person, and has only ever been exposed to those B-movies.
It's interesting that this only seems to happen with German characters, though. Even the Russian accents aren't that bad. And while I mock them quite a bit, those American accents are pitch-perfect in comparison to some of these German characters.You really think so? I thought that some of the Asian, South American and Eastern European characters they did (some, not all!) were also pretty "B movie style".
I have studied and worked at a university in NZ for nearly 10 years, and I had lots of friends from all over the globe. Asians, Indians, Russians, Columbians,..... you name it. By now, I can pretty well tell who is doing the accent genuinely and who is faking it or phoning it in.
Sadly, on many occasions, Big Finish is not very good at it. Therefore, I do NOT feel singled out as a German, I just find it particularly bad with German because it kicks me right out of my "zone" when listening.
I also will not single out Big Finish, since ALL my German audio studios have exactly the same problem. The number of painfully bad accents is staggering. Even the main characters in the most popular German audio series, the 3 Investigators, suffer from it- the main actors for Jupiter, Pete and Bob speak English with the worst possible German accent. And the actor for Jupiter (the brainy guy) cannot pronounce a "th" if his life depended on it. And these guys supposedly play youth detectives from California.
So yeah, not a specific critique for Big Finish particularly, but for audio drama, TV and movies as a whole, no matter from which country.
A general observation.
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Post by Kestrel on Jul 2, 2022 8:50:44 GMT
Emphasis on "some of these," -- as bad as they can be, IME most Big Finish accents are at least recognizable. Like, they're not good or even necessarily competent by any stretch of the imagination, but it's clear what they're trying for. I've encountered at least two German characters, however, who I only knew were supposed to be German because they were explicitly said to be German--their actual accents were unrecognizable.
The most recent one IIRC was the Nazi scientist in Counter-Measures, who I initially assumed was doing a (bad, but discernible) Russian accent.
Though, granted, I've only listened to so much.
EDIT: I do think part of the reason why Germany might be unique here is because of so many literal cartoons using German-coded villains in the Cold War-era. It was the default cliche for decades and decades.
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Stevo
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 5,948 
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Post by Stevo on Jul 2, 2022 16:06:39 GMT
I always find discussions about accents on audio amusing. Back in the day radio dramas on the BBC always had upright sounding RP English types doing every 'foreign' accent in the story. (Dick Barton, Paul Temple, Sexton Blake, Sherlock Holmes ... etc. ) Usually the actors in the main roles would also do the smaller characters with a different voice and even though we all knew they were not really the 'foreigners' they were portraying, it worked. Now we're all so finicky about everything... even fake-ish Irish accents stand out to me now!
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 2, 2022 16:11:25 GMT
I always find discussions about accents on audio amusing. Back in the day radio dramas on the BBC always had upright sounding RP English types doing every 'foreign' accent in the story. (Dick Barton, Paul Temple, Sexton Blake, Sherlock Holmes ... etc. ) Usually the actors in the main roles would also do the smaller characters with a different voice and even though we all knew they were not really the 'foreigners' they were portraying, it worked. Now we're all so finicky about everything... even fake-ish Irish accents stand out to me now! Let's just call it "progress". |
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Post by sherlock on Jul 25, 2022 10:50:26 GMT
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Post by sexbombsimon on Jul 25, 2022 10:52:05 GMT
Very sad new RIP
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and none of the stories so far have needed to be set in Benny’s universe. In fact, some would have gained more poignance as part of the dying universe. 
and none of the stories so far have needed to be set in Benny’s universe. In fact, some would have gained more poignance as part of the dying universe. 
