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Post by Digi on Jun 30, 2022 23:51:14 GMT
I still love Liv and can't wait to see (hear) how she gets on with a later version of the Doctor than the one she knows (how many does this make for her now? Four?). Tania...generally I'm a little indifferent about but hey if she's got a great story here, terrific.
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Post by Kestrel on Jul 1, 2022 2:24:40 GMT
Hrm... I do like Liv, I really do, but goddamn. We're well past the saturation point with her, I think. I'd be far more interested in this if she weren't still the main companion for the 8th Doctor (poor forgotten Helen); hell, I'd be genuinely excited if we'd even had, like, an entire year without any Liv stories at all.
It'll be fun to see how she interacts with the 9th Doctor, but... I'm not gonna get my hopes up for anything particularly great. Maybe I'm feeling overly pessimistic today? The problem as I see it is that Liv knows the 8th Doctor very well--and the 8th Doctor is also the incarnation most deeply affected by the Time War. All of that trauma, all of that suffering. And then we've got the 9th Doctor coming up immediately after participating in all the worst of that violence, meeting someone who knew them before they were broken. That's a really great, dramatic hook for a solid, character-focused story? Right?
The problem is that those stories are precisely the kind that the 9DAs have been (very deliberately) avoiding thus far. So what are we going to get, a lighthearted adventure with Liv and Tanya that laughs the great gaping continuity chasm splitting the Doctor's entire life neatly in two? I'm sorry. I love Eccleston's Doctor, I love Walker's Liv, but I just can't imagine myself getting my hopes up for this one.
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Post by drj on Jul 1, 2022 6:04:07 GMT
I must admit, I’m not that big a fan of too many cross overs these days… particularly for 9 who has been largely keeping away from them… but I am hopeful that all will be well. There could be some interesting, even quite reflective, angles here to 9 meeting Liv And Tania, the loss of 8 for Liv, the memories of times with regular companions for 9, reflection on both of these for Liv and Tania…
I’m on board!
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 1, 2022 6:45:07 GMT
It is weird that what is the flagship New Who range right now has defaulted back to the more usual suspects of current Big Finish in Myles, McMullin and Dorney. Surely it’s not hard to find writers wanting to contribute to this range. My goodness, I wonder why the flagship title employs reliably entertaining writers, who has a nack for coming up with novel ideas? I don’t think that’s fair. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a variety and the Ninth Doctor is the type of flagship range that could achieve that in a way other ranges perhaps can’t. There’s no reason why someone new to the range can’t produce an entertaining story in the same way the returning writers can produce something not so great. It’s a massive range, a real coup for Big Finish and save the odd crossover it’s continuity and arc free. Why wouldn’t you be going through the writers list and getting in people who have yet to write for the range? It’s great that in seven sets announced we’ve only had a handful of returnees. But there’s nothing wrong with wanting to see how someone else would tackle it.
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 1, 2022 7:25:18 GMT
My goodness, I wonder why the flagship title employs reliably entertaining writers, who has a nack for coming up with novel ideas? I don’t think that’s fair. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a variety and the Ninth Doctor is the type of flagship range that could achieve that in a way other ranges perhaps can’t. There’s no reason why someone new to the range can’t produce an entertaining story in the same way the returning writers can produce something not so great. It’s a massive range, a real coup for Big Finish and save the odd crossover it’s continuity and arc free. Why wouldn’t you be going through the writers list and getting in people who have yet to write for the range? It’s great that in seven sets announced we’ve only had a handful of returnees. But there’s nothing wrong with wanting to see how someone else would tackle it. I had that exact same discussion on other forums and FB groups. More times than I can remember. It is a paradox- The fandom demands "do something new" and as soon something new is done, there is complaints "Why could you not have stayed with the old stuff"? It is a balancing act I guess.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 1, 2022 7:35:14 GMT
I don’t think that’s fair. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a variety and the Ninth Doctor is the type of flagship range that could achieve that in a way other ranges perhaps can’t. There’s no reason why someone new to the range can’t produce an entertaining story in the same way the returning writers can produce something not so great. It’s a massive range, a real coup for Big Finish and save the odd crossover it’s continuity and arc free. Why wouldn’t you be going through the writers list and getting in people who have yet to write for the range? It’s great that in seven sets announced we’ve only had a handful of returnees. But there’s nothing wrong with wanting to see how someone else would tackle it. I had that exact same discussion on other forums and FB groups. More times than I can remember. It is a paradox- The fandom demands "do something new" and as soon something new is done, there is complaints "Why could you not have stayed with the old stuff"? It is a balancing act I guess.
I think that tends to be the type of discussion for returning elements and new directions rather than writers, but I do agree it’s always a balancing act and it’s important not to treat statements from fandom like the above as one whole that’s contradictory.
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 1, 2022 7:55:35 GMT
I had that exact same discussion on other forums and FB groups. More times than I can remember. It is a paradox- The fandom demands "do something new" and as soon something new is done, there is complaints "Why could you not have stayed with the old stuff"? It is a balancing act I guess.
I think that tends to be the type of discussion for returning elements and new directions rather than writers, but I do agree it’s always a balancing act and it’s important not to treat statements from fandom like the above as one whole that’s contradictory. You are right, but the cry for different and new writers is also not new in the groups I am in. I am someone who embraces experiments and weird stuff and out of left field elements. Often, when a new element is tried out or the series I follow do something very different, I am all over it. I also try to be vocal online to explain why I liked it. However, too often, the reaction from others is dislike and sometimes even open hate and insults to writers, producers and even the poor actors who carry the least guilt. I can imagine it is not easy to find the right way of how to do this.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jul 1, 2022 9:23:23 GMT
My goodness, I wonder why the flagship title employs reliably entertaining writers, who has a nack for coming up with novel ideas? It’s a massive range, a real coup for Big Finish and save the odd crossover it’s continuity and arc free. Why wouldn’t you be going through the writers list and getting in people who have yet to write for the range? I mean - isn’t that fairly obviously what’s happening? In this second run there have been scripts from Rob Valentine, Liz Myles and Sarah Grochala, none of whom have written a 9DA before.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 1, 2022 9:32:20 GMT
It’s a massive range, a real coup for Big Finish and save the odd crossover it’s continuity and arc free. Why wouldn’t you be going through the writers list and getting in people who have yet to write for the range? I mean - isn’t that fairly obviously what’s happening? In this second run there have been scripts from Rob Valentine, Liz Myles and Sarah Grochala, none of whom have written a 9DA before. No it’s not very obvious when you’ve got six other episodes in the second run written by people who wrote for the first run. Nobody’s saying that there isn’t new writers to the range but that it’s going back to typically being writers who’ve penned stories for it already, as is frequent with many other ranges. Honestly you’d give our MPs a run for their money with your responses.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jul 1, 2022 9:39:38 GMT
I mean - isn’t that fairly obviously what’s happening? In this second run there have been scripts from Rob Valentine, Liz Myles and Sarah Grochala, none of whom have written a 9DA before. No it’s not very obvious when you’ve got six other episodes in the second run written by people who wrote for the first run. Nobody’s saying that there isn’t new writers to the range but that it’s going back to typically being writers who’ve penned stories for it already, as is frequent with many other ranges. Honestly you’d give our MPs a run for their money with your responses. Then I suppose the question is what percentage would work for you? How many episodes by people who’ve written for 9 before are allowed? It seems as if you’re suggesting that experience should disqualify you from doing the gig, for some reason. What’s actually wrong with that?
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 1, 2022 9:53:03 GMT
No it’s not very obvious when you’ve got six other episodes in the second run written by people who wrote for the first run. Nobody’s saying that there isn’t new writers to the range but that it’s going back to typically being writers who’ve penned stories for it already, as is frequent with many other ranges. Honestly you’d give our MPs a run for their money with your responses. Then I suppose the question is what percentage would work for you? How many episodes by people who’ve written for 9 before are allowed? It seems as if you’re suggesting that experience should disqualify you from doing the gig, for some reason. What’s actually wrong with that? I don’t see the problem with getting as many people new to the range in as possible. They offer different voices and variety. That’s not to say previous writers can’t do that, but variety should always be key, particularly in a range like the 9DAs where everything is unconnected and not arc driven. I don’t think that’s hard to grasp. And again, nobody is saying experience should disqualify you. But when you’ve had a first run penned by different writers each story to then lose that somewhat by the second run is disappointing. It’s nice to see variety. And your question could be flipped on its head; what’s wrong with someone else writing for Liv & Tania? It’d be nice to see what someone else could offer.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 1, 2022 10:01:02 GMT
Whenever this question comes up, I'm of two minds: on the one hand, of course there could and should be a greater selection. BF have made strides, to their credit, but I do think the heavy emphasis on boxsets may have left them without those 'lower risk' one-off ranges where you can try out new guys without much fear of blowback. On the other, I can't help but feel as if people are treating BF as bigger than it really is - we know profit margins and sales are tight, and that pay is probably less than what you'd get for doing a similar play for BBC Radio or even Sounds (I met a Dark Shadows writer who told me what they got paid for an hour-long play and... yeah... can't imagine the Who stuff pays much more). For writers to make their time with BF financially viable, as well as BF maintaining those relationships, they have to double to triple up in productions they work on. It's that awkward meeting of fan desire versus economic reality: McMullin likely makes more for one Casualty or Eastenders episodes than she does for like three or four BF plays, which are often several times the length.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 1, 2022 10:04:12 GMT
Then I suppose the question is what percentage would work for you? How many episodes by people who’ve written for 9 before are allowed? It seems as if you’re suggesting that experience should disqualify you from doing the gig, for some reason. What’s actually wrong with that? I don’t see the problem with getting as many people new to the range in as possible. They offer different voices and variety. That’s not to say previous writers can’t do that, but variety should always be key, particularly in a range like the 9DAs where everything is unconnected and not arc driven. I don’t think that’s hard to grasp. And again, nobody is saying experience should disqualify you. But when you’ve had a first run penned by different writers each story to then lose that somewhat by the second run is disappointing. It’s nice to see variety. And your question could be flipped on its head; what’s wrong with someone else writing for Liv & Tania? It’d be nice to see what someone else could offer. Hold on are you saying you would personally want every standalone story in every boxset in every Range to be written by a different every time? That's not practical surely? EDIT I'm temped to start a Thread for people to posit their views on how Writing regular drama should work. Regards mark687
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jul 1, 2022 10:06:57 GMT
Then I suppose the question is what percentage would work for you? How many episodes by people who’ve written for 9 before are allowed? It seems as if you’re suggesting that experience should disqualify you from doing the gig, for some reason. What’s actually wrong with that? I don’t see the problem with getting as many people new to the range in as possible. They offer different voices and variety. That’s not to say previous writers can’t do that, but variety should always be key, particularly in a range like the 9DAs where everything is unconnected and not arc driven. I don’t think that’s hard to grasp. And again, nobody is saying experience should disqualify you. But when you’ve had a first run penned by different writers each story to then lose that somewhat by the second run is disappointing. It’s nice to see variety. And your question could be flipped on its head; what’s wrong with someone else writing for Liv & Tania? It’d be nice to see what someone else could offer. But you’re getting variety. A mix of new and old writers. 5 old hands. Three newbies. I don’t see the issue. If anything, I think it’s healthier to get that kind of mix, and ultimately better for the listener. I’m sure there will be other people writing Liv and Tania, and I look forward to seeing that. There’s nothing wrong with that, but there’s equally nothing wrong with someone who’s written for them before writing for them again.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,079
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Post by dorney on Jul 1, 2022 10:10:43 GMT
Whenever this question comes up, I'm of two minds: on the one hand, of course there could and should be a greater selection. BF have made strides, to their credit, but I do think the heavy emphasis on boxsets may have left them without those 'lower risk' one-off ranges where you can try out new guys without much fear of blowback .It’s worth noting that the last set of ‘The Robots’ had three scripts written by people who’d never done the range before, including one where it was their first ever script. Realistically, new writers take time to develop, so a script from an old hand who knows the ropes gives you time to develop material from the people who don’t. So a mix is always good.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 1, 2022 10:11:33 GMT
I don’t see the problem with getting as many people new to the range in as possible. They offer different voices and variety. That’s not to say previous writers can’t do that, but variety should always be key, particularly in a range like the 9DAs where everything is unconnected and not arc driven. I don’t think that’s hard to grasp. And again, nobody is saying experience should disqualify you. But when you’ve had a first run penned by different writers each story to then lose that somewhat by the second run is disappointing. It’s nice to see variety. And your question could be flipped on its head; what’s wrong with someone else writing for Liv & Tania? It’d be nice to see what someone else could offer. Hold on are you saying you would personally want every standalone story in a boxset in a Range to be written by a different every time? That's not practical surely? Regards mark687 Nobody is saying that. We’ve had the first run where every story was penned by a different writer. We’ve had the second run where, so far, only three out of the nine are new to the range and the rest are penned by others that have not only written for the range but also crop up elsewhere frequently. The Ninth Doctor Adventures have the luxury of not telling a bigger story and are very standalone, even when they feature a crossover. That’s an excellent opportunity to get more people in, both new to the range and new to Big Finish. To see the variety from the first run compared to the second is disappointing and I’d liked to have seen it continue. If people are happy with the variety then that’s great. I feel we had a good thing that’s reverted back to the status quo. It’s certainly better than it was and I feel there’s room for improvement.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 1, 2022 10:15:40 GMT
I don’t see the problem with getting as many people new to the range in as possible. They offer different voices and variety. That’s not to say previous writers can’t do that, but variety should always be key, particularly in a range like the 9DAs where everything is unconnected and not arc driven. I don’t think that’s hard to grasp. And again, nobody is saying experience should disqualify you. But when you’ve had a first run penned by different writers each story to then lose that somewhat by the second run is disappointing. It’s nice to see variety. And your question could be flipped on its head; what’s wrong with someone else writing for Liv & Tania? It’d be nice to see what someone else could offer. But you’re getting variety. A mix of new and old writers. 5 old hands. Three newbies. I don’t see the issue. If anything, I think it’s healthier to get that kind of mix, and ultimately better for the listener. I’m sure there will be other people writing Liv and Tania, and I look forward to seeing that. There’s nothing wrong with that, but there’s equally nothing wrong with someone who’s written for them before writing for them again. Of course you won’t see the issue, you’re being paid to write scripts for the range. The first run of the 9DAs did variety perfectly well and by all accounts was a great experience for the listener, so go figure. And just to reiterate, I’m not saying you writing for them again is wrong. Just that I don’t feel the variety is as good as it could be.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jul 1, 2022 10:18:03 GMT
Hold on are you saying you would personally want every standalone story in a boxset in a Range to be written by a different every time? That's not practical surely? Regards mark687 Nobody is saying that. We’ve had the first run where every story was penned by a different writer. We’ve had the second run where, so far, only three out of the nine are new to the range and the rest are penned by others that have not only written for the range but also crop up elsewhere frequently. The Ninth Doctor Adventures have the luxury of not telling a bigger story and are very standalone, even when they feature a crossover. That’s an excellent opportunity to get more people in, both new to the range and new to Big Finish. To see the variety from the first run compared to the second is disappointing and I’d liked to have seen it continue. If people are happy with the variety then that’s great. I feel we had a good thing that’s reverted back to the status quo. It’s certainly better than it was and I feel there’s room for improvement. The first run of anything is pretty much always going to be different people who’ve never done it before. This is probably true of every single range. (Although in this case it depends how you define Ravagers). But it’s fairly obviously impractical to maintain that. So you’re always going to veer towards a mix. Though I would say that I’m not convinced the 9DAs are the best place to try out people particularly. Like you say, it’s a flagship range. Though hopefully there’ll be some.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,079
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Post by dorney on Jul 1, 2022 10:19:05 GMT
But you’re getting variety. A mix of new and old writers. 5 old hands. Three newbies. I don’t see the issue. If anything, I think it’s healthier to get that kind of mix, and ultimately better for the listener. I’m sure there will be other people writing Liv and Tania, and I look forward to seeing that. There’s nothing wrong with that, but there’s equally nothing wrong with someone who’s written for them before writing for them again. Of course you won’t see the issue, you’re being paid to write scripts for the range. That’s unnecessarily snide. Be better than that.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 1, 2022 10:20:53 GMT
Hold on are you saying you would personally want every standalone story in a boxset in a Range to be written by a different every time? That's not practical surely? Regards mark687 Nobody is saying that. We’ve had the first run where every story was penned by a different writer. We’ve had the second run where, so far, only three out of the nine are new to the range and the rest are penned by others that have not only written for the range but also crop up elsewhere frequently. The Ninth Doctor Adventures have the luxury of not telling a bigger story and are very standalone, even when they feature a crossover. That’s an excellent opportunity to get more people in, both new to the range and new to Big Finish. To see the variety from the first run compared to the second is disappointing and I’d liked to have seen it continue. If people are happy with the variety then that’s great. I feel we had a good thing that’s reverted back to the status quo. It’s certainly better than it was and I feel there’s room for improvement. But the standard format is now 2 to 3 stories per boxset the only way you'd get what like is to have a unique writer for every single story in a Range. Regards mark687
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