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Post by martinw8686 on Dec 31, 2022 20:15:26 GMT
I know to the casual viewer Gallifrey and the Timelords can be canon heavy and dull but it would be a shame to not see them again.
Since the Master destroyed Gallifrey in series 12, I've been hoping for post apocalyptic Timelords, rebuilding from the chaos, with different factions at war with each other.
Do you think we could see another return with the Fifteenth Doctor and what would you like to see?
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Post by timleschild on Dec 31, 2022 20:35:46 GMT
Hopefully not.
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Post by ollychops on Dec 31, 2022 21:50:22 GMT
Hope so. I think something interesting could be done with it/the Time Lords with the right writer.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 31, 2022 23:57:50 GMT
Oh, I think they will be back. Maybe we see them re-build Gallifrey. And hopefully they have mended their ways. Have them change their old system and become benevolent for a change.
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Post by Digi on Jan 1, 2023 7:35:00 GMT
Honestly it's long since past time that Gallifrey was restored permanently. I certainly don't need to hear from them every series, once every five or so would be more than enough. But this insistence that it must be the permanent new status quo is just a silly waste of storytelling opportunities. When you have a storytelling element, you have the chance to put it to use. When you've removed it, and all you've done with that for 18 years is have the lead character look sad once in a while, you're not doing anything useful or original.
We get it. He's sad that they've been gone all this time. It's long since become boring. Move on. Stop wasting time on a non-story that hasn't been remotely interesting since ~2010.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 1, 2023 11:35:37 GMT
For my money, it's too soon after the TC story to suddenly go 'poof, we're back!' Give it a series or two and then settle it finally. If Bad Wolf are going to be our defacto steparents from now on, let them lay it down in stone what Gallifrey's role will be - either they're gone for good and we never bring them back, or have an actual take on them as a positive or negative force. (Dare I say, I almost wish that the one rumour about Series 8 was true and Gallifrey had become 'heaven' and the Time Lords went mad and thought they were angels. At least it's a take, a position, an actual vision, which is more than could be said for Hell Bent's non-answer to nearly 10 years of build up.)
What I would say, and I had thought to say on the spinoff thread, is I don't think a full Gallifrey TV show is on the cards. I think Krypton has basically put a kibosh on how viable 'explore the lead's home world' is as something of wider audience interest. It'd cost too much and who would the audience really be? Hardcores are not big enough in number, and people who want a political drama may not stick it through the silly robes and lore.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jan 1, 2023 15:58:32 GMT
Gallifrey WILL come back sooner or later, but I do hope that they don't get rid of it in five minutes. It doesn't look great, does it? RTD destroys it, Moffat brings it back, Chibnall destroys it, RTD perhaps brings it back, etc etc etc. A Gallifrey-heavy series would probably not be a good idea, but destroying it without making any real use of it is a wasted effort.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 2, 2023 11:57:37 GMT
It’ll be back one day, but I don’t see RTD making it a priority. He didn’t seem to find the Time Lords that compelling to write for The End of Time.
When they do come back, I hope someone has a clear idea of how to do something new with them. My biggest gripe with Moffat’s resurrection of Gallifrey is it’s just straight from classic Who, with no sense of how the Time War changed anything.
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Post by The Brigadier on Jan 3, 2023 16:56:34 GMT
I'll echo what almost everyone else has said on the subject - while the Time War and Gallifrey's destruction were the ideal way of introducing a new Doctor to a new generation without the excessive baggage of the old series, the last eighteen years have shown that unfortunately it has left the Time Lords and the Doctor's homeworld in a writing cul de sac.
Of the three showrunners Moffat probably came closest to writing himself out of it - a crafty workaround during the 50th, the tantalising hints of the Curator and Gallifrey Falls No More, another crafty workaround to the regeneration issue during the events of Trenzalore plus a massive hint in the night sky...and Heaven Sent. Without a doubt Capaldi's finest hour and the laying of foundations for a final showdown between the Doctor and the Time Lords. It is a real shame that what followed failed to live up to such high expectations.
Anyway, I'm digressing. To answer your question - maybe, but only when a convincing, permanent and fresh new approach can be offered. And considering we have not had that in eighteen years...
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Post by martinw8686 on Jan 3, 2023 18:18:21 GMT
Everyone makes good points, it feels like such a waste to have them destroyed behind the scenes. I'd love a Big Finish set detailing how it happened and perhaps that some survivors made it off world or are still skulking in the ruins.
I think there are still TV worthy Timelord adventures to be told, and they needn't be too canon heavy for the casual viewer.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 3, 2023 18:23:06 GMT
Honestly I think that should be a wrap on Gallifrey now. Let it go for good.
Sure we can have the Time Lord back but now massively depowered with the survivors on a colony planet or something.
But after everything it’d be tiresome if they just pop back up on Gallifrey as if nothing happened.
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Post by masterdoctor on Jan 3, 2023 18:41:58 GMT
Agree on leaving Gallifrey behind. A ragtag group of time lords who somehow escaped and hid themselves would be much much more interesting, and if nothing else, bring back The Monk or The Rani to explore further.
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Post by martinw8686 on Jan 3, 2023 20:29:35 GMT
Agree on leaving Gallifrey behind. A ragtag group of time lords who somehow escaped and hid themselves would be much much more interesting, and if nothing else, bring back The Monk or The Rani to explore further. I agree, best leave the old TimeLord structure to past stories. I'm less keen on the Doctor remaining the last of the Timelords, it's more interesting to keep the rogues gallery of renegade Timelords and perhaps old friends of the Doctor for future adventures. I like the idea of either a small colony of Timelords or rebuilding Gallifrey from scratch, perhaps a feudal society with limited resources. A good story idea could be the Timelords reaching out to the Doctor to help them regain the power of time travel as he has the only working Tardis, this would put the Doctor in the difficult position of making the moral choice to deny them.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 3, 2023 23:49:52 GMT
How many stories set on Gallifrey or about Gallifrey are any good? After The Deadly Assassin and with the possible exception of The Five Doctors, they haven’t really been that good. I don’t think it matters if there’s a Gallifrey or not: knowing that the Doctor is on the run from their own people or is among the last of his own people is possibly enough. Going back there just gives us more understanding for why they left.
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Post by martinw8686 on Jan 4, 2023 15:54:40 GMT
How many stories set on Gallifrey or about Gallifrey are any good? After The Deadly Assassin and with the possible exception of The Five Doctors, they haven’t really been that good. I don’t think it matters if there’s a Gallifrey or not: knowing that the Doctor is on the run from their own people or is among the last of his own people is possibly enough. Going back there just gives us more understanding for why they left. For me the best Timelord material has come from Big Finish, stories arcs of the Eighth Doctor, the War Doctor and War Master, as well as the Doctor's friends on Gallifrey, such as Romana and Leela. I totally agree with the bureaucracy and pomp of the Timelords being mined for all it's worth long ago. I do still think the myths of Gallifrey and it's technology still have a lot to offer, the confession dial episode Heaven Sent was awesome. I love the Tardis and mythology of time travel in the show, so I would like to see the Timelords rebooted after the Master destroyed Gallifrey, no longer in robes with it's previous hierarchy but rebuilt from the ashes to be something new and a whole new direction for story arc. The Timelords are so tightly linked to the Doctor's journey, they'll always need something to provide emotional story arcs that tie in with the long life of the Doctor.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 6, 2023 16:58:38 GMT
I'd say the best way to do it IMO, is to have there be a colony of survivors on a new planet that they rename Gallifrey. So there is a Gallfrey but it isnt the original.
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 6, 2023 17:43:30 GMT
I had another thought.... The whole idea of the Timelords, they go back to an old Sci-Fi (and Fantasy) idea of an Elder Race. The TV series has hardly dipped into that. The only thing they really did was re-creating some ancient university politics vibes sporting silly costumes (which further emphasizes the university theme). I have worked at university long enough, and I am sick of the cattle poo going on there, the backstabbing, the big egos, the weird ancient rules and the fact that most of them would not succeed in the actual real world. Maybe that is what Chibnall has done- he just took the "University Politics" to it's natural end. BUT. I actually LOVE the idea of an Elder Race, I am a bit like Sam Gamgee who gets a total nerdgasm over Elves and knows much of their lore and songs about them. There is so much one can do with the idea of an Elder Race. With the idea of technology so advanced it is like magic. TV Who has only dipped their toes into that. I love the idea of Shada- I would not mind having another story set there. I love the idea of the powerful books and artifacts that sit around some old stuffy Timelord's office because they have forgotten what they mean. I love it when TV Who gets all mystical- just look at the old sect of the Sisterhood of Karn- THAT is the kind of idea I am after. At a guess, the Sisterhood has survived, and maybe they still keep some haunted powerful artefacts. As the last mysterious remnants of the great Gallifreyan civilization- maybe have the Doctor stop by every now and then, maybe make it some kind of Rivendell. Some base before the brave adventurers head out into the wilds and face the monsters.
So, as you might have gathered, I have never been a fan of the "University Politics Timelords". I am not the biggest fan of the "Deadly Assassin" depiction. But I love the depiction of the Timelords in War Games. In my opinion, this is how the Timelords work best for me. Powerful. Distant. Without pity and concern for the lower life forms. Ready to punish the Doctor for running away and associating with the lower creatures. In War Games, they are actually scary. Later, they are just a joke.
And honestly, I am sick of that joke. So if we only ever would get back "University Politics with silly costumes"- good riddance. But if we would get some mysterious aloof all-powerful Elves, of which lesser races sing songs and tell cautionary tales about- YES PLEASE.
I am happy that Big Finish has done some stories in that direction- just having re-listened to Ravenous 4- this is the kind of story I like.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jan 6, 2023 21:43:22 GMT
I had another thought.... The whole idea of the Timelords, they go back to an old Sci-Fi (and Fantasy) idea of an Elder Race. The TV series has hardly dipped into that. The only thing they really did was re-creating some ancient university politics vibes sporting silly costumes (which further emphasizes the university theme). I have worked at university long enough, and I am sick of the cattle poo going on there, the backstabbing, the big egos, the weird ancient rules and the fact that most of them would not succeed in the actual real world. Maybe that is what Chibnall has done- he just took the "University Politics" to it's natural end. BUT. I actually LOVE the idea of an Elder Race, I am a bit like Sam Gamgee who gets a total nerdgasm over Elves and knows much of their lore and songs about them. There is so much one can do with the idea of an Elder Race. With the idea of technology so advanced it is like magic. TV Who has only dipped their toes into that. I love the idea of Shada- I would not mind having another story set there. I love the idea of the powerful books and artifacts that sit around some old stuffy Timelord's office because they have forgotten what they mean. I love it when TV Who gets all mystical- just look at the old sect of the Sisterhood of Karn- THAT is the kind of idea I am after. At a guess, the Sisterhood has survived, and maybe they still keep some haunted powerful artefacts. As the last mysterious remnants of the great Gallifreyan civilization- maybe have the Doctor stop by every now and then, maybe make it some kind of Rivendell. Some base before the brave adventurers head out into the wilds and face the monsters. So, as you might have gathered, I have never been a fan of the "University Politics Timelords". I am not the biggest fan of the "Deadly Assassin" depiction. But I love the depiction of the Timelords in War Games. In my opinion, this is how the Timelords work best for me. Powerful. Distant. Without pity and concern for the lower life forms. Ready to punish the Doctor for running away and associating with the lower creatures. In War Games, they are actually scary. Later, they are just a joke. And honestly, I am sick of that joke. So if we only ever would get back "University Politics with silly costumes"- good riddance. But if we would get some mysterious aloof all-powerful Elves, of which lesser races sing songs and tell cautionary tales about- YES PLEASE. I am happy that Big Finish has done some stories in that direction- just having re-listened to Ravenous 4- this is the kind of story I like.
^ Great analogy.. Yes.. keep them just far enough to be an enigma..
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