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Post by martinw8686 on Feb 15, 2023 10:30:29 GMT
1. The War Master - my personal favourite, fantastically played by Derek Jacobi, Big Finish have given the character incredibly depth and wonderful stories.
2. Missy - Michelle Gomes is gorgeous and bonkers in the part, love the rekindled friendship arc with her and 12.
3 Delgado Master - the Original, charming and a brilliant Moriarty to Pertwee's Holmes.
4. Crispy Master - a brilliant way to continue the character after Delgado sadly passed away. Geoffrey Beevers is amazing with his Big Finish performances, his Master is creepy and tragic, with added pathos for his need to be loved creeping into the performance.
5. Tremas Master - An interesting creation, with a mixed bag of episodes, at his best with his first full appearance in Logopolis and his last regular appearance in Survival.
6. Spy Master - Sacha is a great actor, I'm looking forward to his Big Finish debut as the Master. I always found him entertaining but he needed a bit more character development to add some individualality to the part.
7. Saxon Master - loved him in his brief appearance in Utopia and his last TV episode The Doctor Falls but his original RTD run was very a bit mad dog, with the character coming across as petulant and stupid.
8. Alternative Universe Master - well played by Gattis but I've not heard enough to fairly rank him higher.
9. Bruce Master - Okay but nothing spectacular, doesn't particularly feel like the Master until reappearing on Big Finish, where he is pretty good.
10. Dreyfus - less said the better really. I've heard him in The Psychic Circus and Blood of the Timelords, his performance in the later was quite good. From the little I've heard of the actor, he sounds an unpleasant individual and it's hard to separate the man from the art with the nasty and spiteful views he has.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Feb 16, 2023 8:41:54 GMT
War - urbane, lacking utterly in morals, cunning, calm when he needs to be. Utterly ruthless. Roger - see above. Zombeevers - take Roger, strip away the veneer of calm urbanite and leave just the ruthless drive to survive and add snark. Missy - utterly unpredictable, hilariously so. Bruce - he’s just so deliciously vicious. Spy Master - o what a waste of talent. Sim - ohh look. He’s shouty and “mental”. Bah. Dreyfus - a waste if a good idea on a terrible person. Sorry, can’t seperate the art from the artist.
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Post by bonehead on Feb 16, 2023 13:19:14 GMT
I've tried to put the various incarnations of the Master in order of preference but it's impossible for me. Simm's is a good example - I found him irritating during his RTD outings, and thoroughly compelling and convincingly nasty when opporite Capaldi (a prime example of what a difference a writer can make).
I'm also a fan of Roberts' Master mainly due to his Big Finish outings. I'm desperate for him to get a set worthy of him - not sidelined, not upstaged by any guest character. So again, impossible to rank.
Most of all though, I'm currently a huge fan of Sacha's portrayal. I've rarely known an actor convey the frightening highs and lows of pure megalomania so well. It's all in the eyes. He's got to come back on television, hasn't he?
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Post by Kestrel on Feb 16, 2023 13:29:34 GMT
I dunno that I can really rank them. I definitely know who my top picks are, but the bottom? The middle? Not a clue. Well, maybe a few clues, but not enough.
The top spot definitely goes to the War Master. Derek Jacobi at his worst is often better than many other actors at their best, and maybe that includes a few of his fellow Masters. And Jacobi at his best? Absolutely spectacular. And it doesn't hurt that the War Master range offers some of the best writing in Big Finish's oeuvre.
Second place is a bit of a toss-op. Michele Gomez gives Missy a lot of charm, and she's always delightful to watch/listen to... but also the Missy audio range, short as it is, is a much more of a mixed bag. It's hard to really sing her praises without reservation, or at least it is here, where the audio dramas have so much more weight than elsewhere. She's definitely buoyed quite a bit by a spectacular run of TV stories and, you know having an actual, proper, honest-to-god character arc there.
And neck-in-neck with Missy's Master is, of course, Geoffrey Beevers' Master. Beevers' is a bit of a unique case because I think he probably has the most range out of all the actors to play the Master. Most others tend to feel most at home in one extreme or the other, but Beevers can do genuine menace, he can do raw insanity, and he can do Delgado-esque camp -- all very well. He's also got a fair number of stories out there (second only to Jacobi, I think, though I've not counted), and even the weaker stories are still a lot of fun to listen to because, you know, Beevers is just that much fun to have around.
And that's as far down the list as I'm willing going to go. Special mention to the Gatiss Master, because I really love Gatiss' performance in some of the stories (he really plays the whole "weary tyrant" thing well) but at the same time... he's not in many stories, and as much as I hate to say it, he didn't really do much for me in his first few stories in the NABS sets. I really hope we see more of him in the future, though.
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Post by theillusiveman on Feb 16, 2023 14:00:26 GMT
1) The War Master (Derek Jacobi)- Probably without a doubt the most consistently written Master, Urbane, Charming, Cold and Calculating without a doubt the best of The 21st Century Masters
2) The Enemy Within Master (Eric Roberts)- Probably the most ruthless and chilling Masters in the TV Movie he was actually the most threatening and violent Master of the lot and his Audios are generally good
3) The First Master (James Drefyus)- Without a doubt the most underrated Master in Big Finish, Drefyus really sells the concept of being the earliest Master and playing it straight, his performance in Blood of The Timelords and The Home Guard is brilliant and its such a huge shame that Big Finish stopped working with him as he is brilliant in the role and should have continued.
4) The Decayed Thirteenth Master (Geoffrey Beevers)- Such a Terrifying and yet Charmingly voiced incarnation of The Master Beevers always gives a 10/10 Performance and while i dislike the whole timeline of his Master i think he really sells each story he is in.
5) The UNIT Enemy Twelfth Master (Roger Delgardo)- The Original TV Master and the most charming of the Masters
6) The Fourteenth/Body snatcher Master (Anthony Ainley)- Underrated but often poorly characterized, Logopolis had him at his most terrifying, Survival had him at his deadliest and The Ultimate Foe had him at his campest.
7) The Reborn Master (Alex MacQueen)- Campy but likable just haven't got many stories with him
8) The Saxon Master (John Simm)- Way Too Over The Top especially in The RTD Era, Thankfully Moffats Era gives him a good story but yeah one of the less than stellar Masters
9) The Alternative Universe Master (Mark Gattis)- Decent but not very memorable
10) Missy (Michelle Gomez)- Another OTT Master and often cringe as hell, slightly better portrayed in the Big Finish Audios and Series 10
11) The Fatal Death Master (Johnthan Pryce)- Parody Master but if the actor if was in a proper story could have done wonders
12) The Spy Master (Sasha Dawhan)- Yet another OTT Master with cringe writing and dialogue, feels like another retread of The Saxon Master, Sasha deserved better characterization and writing for his Master
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Post by martinw8686 on Feb 16, 2023 15:44:02 GMT
Just realised I'd forgotten Alex Mcqueen, oh how could I!
I really love him in the Dark Eyes sets.
I'd probably rank him quite highly
War Master Delgado Missy Crispy Bald Master
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Post by martinw8686 on Feb 16, 2023 15:59:06 GMT
1) The War Master (Derek Jacobi)- Probably without a doubt the most consistently written Master, Urbane, Charming, Cold and Calculating without a doubt the best of The 21st Century Masters 2) The Enemy Within Master (Eric Roberts)- Probably the most ruthless and chilling Masters in the TV Movie he was actually the most threatening and violent Master of the lot and his Audios are generally good 3) The First Master (James Drefyus)- Without a doubt the most underrated Master in Big Finish, Drefyus really sells the concept of being the earliest Master and playing it straight, his performance in Blood of The Timelords and The Home Guard is brilliant and its such a huge shame that Big Finish stopped working with him as he is brilliant in the role and should have continued. 4) The Decayed Thirteenth Master (Geoffrey Beevers)- Such a Terrifying and yet Charmingly voiced incarnation of The Master Beevers always gives a 10/10 Performance and while i dislike the whole timeline of his Master i think he really sells each story he is in. 5) The UNIT Enemy Twelfth Master (Roger Delgardo)- The Original TV Master and the most charming of the Masters 6) The Fourteenth/Body snatcher Master (Anthony Ainley)- Underrated but often poorly characterized, Logopolis had him at his most terrifying, Survival had him at his deadliest and The Ultimate Foe had him at his campest. 7) The Reborn Master (Alex MacQueen)- Campy but likable just haven't got many stories with him 8) The Saxon Master (John Simm)- Way Too Over The Top especially in The RTD Era, Thankfully Moffats Era gives him a good story but yeah one of the less than stellar Masters 9) The Alternative Universe Master (Mark Gattis)- Decent but not very memorable 10) Missy (Michelle Gomez)- Another OTT Master and often cringe as hell, slightly better portrayed in the Big Finish Audios and Series 10 11) The Fatal Death Master (Johnthan Pryce)- Parody Master but if the actor if was in a proper story could have done wonders 12) The Spy Master (Sasha Dawhan)- Yet another OTT Master with cringe writing and dialogue, feels like another retread of The Saxon Master, Sasha deserved better characterization and writing for his Master If I'm being objective and judging by performance, Dreyfus was really good in Blood of the Timelords. However I think it’s the right decision for Big Finish to no longer work with him. I don't want to start a negative thread on the man, pretty much every thing that needs to be said about Dreyfus has been said. I really don't like his views and stepping aside from the views expressed is the issue of just all round bad PR for Big Finish. There's no intention from me to stir up controversy, I am interested in what is a sensible business decision from a production company and how difficult it is to judge a performance on it's merits, good performance from a man I find toxic. I bought Blood of the Timelords because it was produced before certain issues came to light. I certainly wouldn't purchase any new recordings despite finding the last performance to be very good. Now my ranking of Dreyfus is perhaps based on my views of the man, I try to be objective but sometimes it's hard to separate the art from the individual.
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Post by martinw8686 on Feb 16, 2023 16:32:14 GMT
I've tried to put the various incarnations of the Master in order of preference but it's impossible for me. Simm's is a good example - I found him irritating during his RTD outings, and thoroughly compelling and convincingly nasty when opporite Capaldi (a prime example of what a difference a writer can make).
I'm also a fan of Roberts' Master mainly due to his Big Finish outings. I'm desperate for him to get a set worthy of him - not sidelined, not upstaged by any guest character. So again, impossible to rank.
Most of all though, I'm currently a huge fan of Sacha's portrayal. I've rarely known an actor convey the frightening highs and lows of pure megalomania so well. It's all in the eyes. He's got to come back on television, hasn't he?
I'm with you on Simm. He was much better with Capaldi. I like Sacha too, I'm not too keen on 13's era but I've always seen huge potential in Sacha, before he was cast I thought he'd make a marvellous future Doctor. I'm hoping Big Finish explores his character further. They do so well with the character. I feel the revived tv show tends to ramp up the pace when the Master is on screen, often at the expense of character moments, so fingers crossed audio will give us more peaks into the Master's soul.
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Post by Kestrel on Feb 17, 2023 12:29:42 GMT
I feel the revived tv show tends to ramp up the pace when the Master is on screen, often at the expense of character moments, so fingers crossed audio will give us more peaks into the Master's soul. This is a good point. I think it's really telling just how much people liked Derek Jacobi's Master -- prior to the War Master Range -- despite him only playing the Master on-screen for a few seconds : it's because we had all of those earlier, more introspective moments with him as Professor Yana. It can be easy to dismiss those scenes as being of a "false persona," but it's also to assume that Yana was simply... who the Master could have been, had he lived a different life. Without all that baggage of the Time Lords and his toxic infatuation with the Doctor, you have a relatively humble man, a kind man, a scientist. And because we have that framing, it makes easier to accept a lot of the stories that follow, from the 10th Doctor "forgiving" his old friend, to the 12th Doctor devoting a significant portion of his life trying to redeem her. And though I know some of us here don't really think very highly of the set, I really love how Big Finish took the core of that idea and went a little further with it in Masterful. Where, instead of a "false persona," we find the Crispy Master in a similar set of altered circumstances that allow him to cast aside all his baggage and, briefly, be a better person. This subplot winds up being the emotional foundation of the boxset's narrative and demonstrates just how much depth the Master can have when he has the opportunity to be more than just an antagonistic force. It makes me really want to see Big Finish do a more slice-of-Life story with the Master. One where he's just... living his life for a while, in-between nefarious plans, simply... existing. Just hanging out. Running errands. Chatting with random people.
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Post by martinw8686 on Feb 17, 2023 15:07:42 GMT
I feel the revived tv show tends to ramp up the pace when the Master is on screen, often at the expense of character moments, so fingers crossed audio will give us more peaks into the Master's soul. This is a good point. I think it's really telling just how much people liked Derek Jacobi's Master -- prior to the War Master Range -- despite him only playing the Master on-screen for a few seconds : it's because we had all of those earlier, more introspective moments with him as Professor Yana. It can be easy to dismiss those scenes as being of a "false persona," but it's also to assume that Yana was simply... who the Master could have been, had he lived a different life. Without all that baggage of the Time Lords and his toxic infatuation with the Doctor, you have a relatively humble man, a kind man, a scientist. And because we have that framing, it makes easier to accept a lot of the stories that follow, from the 10th Doctor "forgiving" his old friend, to the 12th Doctor devoting a significant portion of his life trying to redeem her. And though I know some of us here don't really think very highly of the set, I really love how Big Finish took the core of that idea and went a little further with it in Masterful. Where, instead of a "false persona," we find the Crispy Master in a similar set of altered circumstances that allow him to cast aside all his baggage and, briefly, be a better person. This subplot winds up being the emotional foundation of the boxset's narrative and demonstrates just how much depth the Master can have when he has the opportunity to be more than just an antagonistic force. It makes me really want to see Big Finish do a more slice-of-Life story with the Master. One where he's just... living his life for a while, in-between nefarious plans, simply... existing. Just hanging out. Running errands. Chatting with random people. Totally agree, I've always thought the Master can't be maniacal all the time, it's just not sustainable. I love with The War Master when we see him playing the long game, tending to his vineyard, travelling with Cole and living under aliases.
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